When ex moves to other side of the country ..

[wigwoo]

Hi all

Just interested in what others have done in similar scenarios.

I live with my 13 year old DD and my ex moved 150 odd miles away a few years ago. The contact in place is EOW weekend. I do one drive, he does the other. Always been a PITA but I do it to maintain contact.

Now he has moved even further away, we are talking a 5 hour distance, 10 hour round trip.

What arrangements would be fair?

My concerns are :

1. my DD - I feel for her that she has to do these long frequent drives as it is especially as occasionally she will want to do things with friends. I also don't think she should be subjected to being stuck in a car for that long on short periods.

2. my ex's relationship with me is acrimonious

3. I don't even think meeting half way is right. Firstly my DD still has to do these long journeys and secondly I do a weekly hobby every Sunday which means I have to stop. This hobby is only on Sunday afternoons and is my only joy that I do for myself. Obviously if i had to give it up so I could do a halfway drive I would. But it's the only thing that has kept me sane through a tricky few years and the one thing aside from my DD that makes me happy. It's not available to do any other day. Plus i feel aggrieved as it's not me that's moved. I've stayed in the same place all of my DD's life and my ex is moving further and further away.

I don't want to stop contact but what on earth can I do. It's such a long way now. I don't even know if I can afford such a jump in petrol costs too.

I mainly feel for my DD, and she doesn't like the current journey as it but we do it regularly.

What suggestions do anyone have?

Thank you :)

(Excuse my ignorance on the court stuff, no idea how it works. This must all seems mega unreasonable tho and unfair on both you and your DD)

Just*!

Op he can’t force you to do anything. Orders are really there as guidelines especially as the dc get older. I wouldn’t waste time or money heading back to court, in another 2 years or so she’ll be able to get the train herself. Present him with a proposal of how you see it working based on what your dc wants and leave the rest to him. If he doesn’t like it, let him make the application back to court, in the meantime, keep talking, be reasonable and offer a generous workable alternative. And keep written communication as evidence of that.

In our case, I stopped doing drop offs for many reasons the biggest being that it was taking 5 hours round trip to get dc there. He was also not consistent with contact, everything on his terms. And to top it all off, he wasn’t paying a penny in maintenance. He was pretty awful to me for quite a while, threatened taking it back to court for enforcement, so I asked him, what he expected the court to do?! He was hiding income and not financially supporting his children, the court would take a very dim view of that fact! Funnily enough he never made that threat again and things are far more amicable all round.

Keep talking op, I’m sure you’ll both work it out. But whatever you do, do not agree to driving EOW, hotel stays etc because once you start doing it, you’ll be setting a precedent!

Yes I hope it doesn't go against me that because I've already agreed to a long drive to the current location, that I should continue going forward.
I'm ok with holiday contact but would hope the judge would allow me some of those too, as I'd like the opportunity to take DD on holiday etc. I'd be ok him having more. Currently it's more a 50/50 split on holidays.

He'd be unreasonable to expect more than he already has of holidays but if it's normally spread out it might make more sense to do it all in one block. Of course you need your down time with dd and she with you too.

She won’t be able to do her homework & relax on the weekends she has to go away if she’s travelling for 10 hours of it, it’s just not sustainable. Her teenage years will be hard enough without this thrown in. Good luck.

@Happyd you’ve got it in for me haven’t you.
I wouldn’t send him if there was a risk to him.
CAFCASS report even states this.
He’s been going since age 9 and is now turning 13 and there’s been no problems. What’s so scary about the train? I was flying solo to Asia age 8 and I’m fine. I think a 13 year old can manage 3 hours on the train.

Me and ex had 50/50 of our ds. I moved 250 miles away for uni, he didn't work as he'd wanted to be a sahd and I was the one who worked full time before returning to education.

I travelled back up every weekend for 3 years. During holidays I'd take him back down and then travel back up. It was impossible to keep 50/50 but I did what I thought was best for the long run.

I was the one who moved away so I figured it was on me to be the one to travel. Ex would never have agreed to travel half way or do some of the journeys as he saw it as a choice that I made.

@Pinetreesfall I've not got it in for you at all ..I just think as the parent who moves away it should be up to you to do the travelling .. and I would not be happy leaving my fairly young son with an abusive ex-partner ..but if the courts say it's ok it must be fine 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Happyd Your own happiness about your child seeing their other parent, rarely features where court orders for contact are concerned. The bar is set spectacularly low for NRP, usually men. The idea being, that a relationship with a child regardless of it being damaging, is better than no relationship at all.

Is public transport an option. At 13 she can travel alone. Once a month perhaps

For 15 years we have had to work around DSS being 400miles away. EOW DH does a day trip, so he is the only person travelling (both he and his ex moved away from where they lived as a couple after their split). At 13, what is right for your daughter will change rapidly as she develops a teenage social life, hobbies, and eventually school routines e.g. for exam periods. Combinations we have used to create flexibility are a mixture of using longer school holiday stays, alternating the weekend every 2 weeks / every 3 weeks, long weekends away for us in the area that DSS lives, public transport, meeting in a city 1 hour from DSS (which reduced DH travel by 2 hours) As DSS got older, we found the quality of the visit to be more important than the frequency as the relationship had a strong foundation and was established. None of the above required DSS to travel in term time.

@minniemomo

Is public transport an option. At 13 she can travel alone. Once a month perhaps

She's quite immature for her age so I'd be a bit scared letting her do it just yet. It's still 3.5 hours. Maybe in a year or two though.

Thank you everyone. I've read each of your messages and they are really helping me.

The problem I have is will I be ok trouble if I refuse to bring DD to his new residence on his next contact day, seeing as his move is imminent. The current court order does not mention location (because no one knew he was moving) but does state I am to drop DD every other Friday.

I won't be able to get a new order by the next contact date.

My ex is already trying to use the order to say that's what he suggests we do if we can't agree. He has given me no notice of this, no time to work out an agreement and is trying to bully me into rushing into an agreement to suit what he wants as I think he feels he has the existing court order to fall back on.

I would just state that DD doesn't want to travel that distance for just a weekend so you won't be bringing her against her wishes.

Buy you some time!

@RandomMess

I would just state that DD doesn't want to travel that distance for just a weekend so you won't be bringing her against her wishes.

Buy you some time!

Good idea and probably true as well

Do you have to make any part of the journey ? I’m not sure I would.

@DinosaurDiana

Do you have to make any part of the journey ? I’m not sure I would.

A judge might say I have to at least do half but I really don't want to even for once a month. It's the extra expense, the wear and tear on my crappy old car, the fact it will mess up my own passion.

But if it's what my DD says she wants I'd do it

I’m not a solicitor and I’m not a judge. I’m not a gambler, but I would bet money on the fact that absolutely nothing will happen if you decline to drive her 10 hours round trip for weekend visitation.

He is the one breaking the visitation order here. He should be the one hiring a solicitor and applying to the courts to get a new agreement in place.

If you are really worried, think about what your petrol bill is going to be for a couple of these trips and instead of making that drive, use that money to pay for a visit with a solicitor to explain your options going forward.

Barring that, I would write him a message saying that much travel is not in dd best interest. It also isn’t feasible for you in terms of time, sleep, or finances. Propose a reasonable visitation schedule and also suggest he lay out a plan in advance to visit dd in her city. Tell him this schedule isn’t fixed, it’s just a starting point for discussion and you plan to work with him to make sure dd can maintain her relationship with him despite his choice to move. Then just leave it. It’s his problem to solve.

Op, you sound like an amazing mum.

He cannot force you to continue with the current contact since the drop off has changed. I appreciate you can't afford legal costs but you can send an email as BusyLizzie61 suggested.

Start by saying you fully support daughters relationship with him and have for X years followed the agreement on current drop off location however as he notified you xx days ago (mention the date) of his impending move the current order will no longer apply and you'll both need to consider logistics. Given your daughters age her wishes and feelings should be taken into account and she does not want to travel 10 hours EOW for contact.

You can ask him for his suggestions and state that as he has given short notice of the move perhaps for this contact (mention date) that he visit her locally. This would enable continuity of contact whilst trying to resolve a longer term plan.

You could also mention that if this isn't suitable you are happy to adhere to the current schedule and meet as usual on Friday as per the contact arrangement.

State that as his residence has changed from X to Y a review of contact will be needed. Reiterate that your daughters preference is to not drive to the new location but for him to visit locally and you hope that he can accommodate her wishes and feelings.

As long as you offer contact you are not going to be seen by a court as causing an issue, especially if you have done this religiously for years.

He can either bully you into driving more, agree a more sensible schedule or apply to court to vary the order. That's all he can do. I know it's scary standing up to these entitled men but stick with it. Don't start doing the 5 hours unless a court forces you (they wouldn't!)

You could apply yourself to court. There is a form you complete and pay an amount. If you phoned your local family court they would be able to advise you. This would kick off the process and he can't say you are not supporting contact. There are delays which will work in your favour!

Keep offering local contact or to adhere to the current schedule. I would be wary of offering once a month as this may even be too onerous. A court HAS to take the safety of long distance driving into account especially if it impacts your rest or work. She could show that Sunday afternoons are your recovery time, you don't need to be specific but state the times you would be available on a Friday or Sunday to drop off/collect.

Bolster your daughters confidence by telling her she does have a voice and that she can choose to reduce contact if that works best for her. A cafcass officer WILL listen to her. She may feel sad about losing time with her half sibling and Dad but that isn't her fault and she can still stay in contact via video and holidays. Just reassure her that as she gets older her parents have to listen to her and in 5 years she will be an adult so can make her own decisions. This process is a step on that road to adulthood.

Don't put yourself and your daughter through 5 hours each way for a weekend. It really isn't safe or sensible. Trust yourself on this and it will come good.

What has he suggested? I can't imagine him wanting to drive that much either.

I have a child that age. If my ex moved that far away then personally I'd be suggesting most of half term and half school holidays.

When we just split up my ex lived 3 hours away and the kids struggled with that. Ex enjoys driving so was doing all of it but after seeing the kids struggle I had to tell him that contact had to decrease because 6 hours in a car over the course of a weekend was too much for them. (He picked up on a Saturday morning as it would be probably take 5 hours each way during Friday rush hour through London) Luckily he came to his senses and moved 45 minutes away which led to much happier kids.

Are there faster ways to get there like train or even plane?

He has suggested keeping to the current order of EOW. I know he is setting a trap for me to be forced to break the current order if I refuse to go. What he will likely do is then break it himself in a tit for tat scenario by withholding her next time he is with her (as he has done before).

This man has destroyed my life and I've had therapy for the anxiety he causes me. Everything is a game for him in how he can complete mess my life up, nothing is done with his daughter's best interests at heart. He's a narcissist.

I can't even do anything for the next two weeks in terms of get a c100 because I've been selected for something that is my civil duty to attend - that's probably obvious enough but don't want to spell it out as I've already said you too much and petrified of being outed, but gosh I'm so scared of him!

Thank you for all your advice and words of support, it means a lot and does help x

Does DD currently like going EOW or due to her age would she already prefer something different?

When you communicate about it frame it only through what DD wants/doesn't want and that at her age her wants are taken into consideration and it's entirely natural at her age to no longer want EOW.

Include "at such short notice" he is welcome to come and both collect and her return on this occasion against DDs wishes as you are not able to take her so far on this Friday nor collect her on the Sunday due to civil duty whereas you could to his old home.

If he refuses to return her then he really is stupid as she will be missing school etc. I would also discuss the risk of him doing this again? Does she still want to go before a court order is arranged which will take months?

I know he is setting a trap for me to be forced to break the current order if I refuse to go

You can apply online for a order. You won't get a court date for months. You could also write an email saying what steps you are taking. A judge won't sanction you if the order isn't followed due to a change in his location. Is that your fear?

I understand being scared of him...I have a similar Ex

That's so good to know.

Tell him DD doesn't want to go for the weekend with such a long journey especially at x days notice and it's a shame he didn't inform you of their planned move so it could have been resolved in advance however you have start the court application to change CAO. DD is open to coming at half term for 3/4 nights instead if days can be agreed with it being sick short notice.

I would also include that due to him moving so far away your are longer able to drop her off, however you would be prepared to meet him at x service station (basically journey time you would usually do) in place of that however the return journey is down to him.

Obviously submit application first.

Let him kick off and ignore everything unless he offers a reasonable compromise. Just keep grey rocking

"That doesn't work for DD, I don't know why you didn't inform her of your plan to move 5 hours away sooner so this could have been resolved before you moved"

The more evidence of foul unreasonable emails from him the more the measure the court and Cafcass will have of him.