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Original poster

CMS fraud investigation team

107 replies

Skyvanilla22 · 11/03/2021 12:30

Can anyone please advise.
My ex is currently being investigated by the Financial Investigation team of the CMS.
He is continuing to claim he earns £5 per hour meaning I receive a tiny amount . Unfortunately the company he works is providing the info to HMRC. He is 'on the books' sometimes & cash in hand others. It's a small family run business. The CMS are willing to investigate as I think they have identified discrepancies in my case.
I'm happy they are investigating but I'm not hopeful of a positive outcome.
Has anyone had a positive outcome following an investigation? Or do you know what they actually do? I do know that they work along side the HMRC but unsure what other things they can do.
I really hope someone can help me. I'm actually at my wits end.

OP posts:
Kent1982 · 11/03/2021 17:01

Yes, found a extra 15k of undeclared income, I filled in a variation of income form wrote everything I knew, about 6 weeks later cms rang me said we found this so far. There are other routes we can look at but it might take a while. I allowed them to stop at that

Kent1982 · 11/03/2021 17:03

This was about 3 years ago, I'm not sure what the do but they were good, I think the customer contact centre was in NE all women I spoke to super friendly really helpful

Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 11/03/2021 17:16

Wow that's really good to hear! I shall try to remain positive!

OP posts:
Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 14/03/2021 17:52

Can I ask if you then had to go to a tribunal following the investigation?

OP posts:
Cocos1 · 15/03/2021 23:26

Sorry for late response ( and name change) . No tribunal literally I filled in a form called a variation of income form. I wrote everything I knew about him, rental properties not being declared, just anything at all that showed he wasn't living on income he declared and they did the rest.

A man called me from cms said we have found 15k we will back date to beginning of assessment period, he asked if i wanted them to look further, I think he phrased it as though, do I want to dispute amount.

I didn't because I was just fed up so I took the money. Since then the assessments have all been around a similar amount, but this year I suspect he's hiding a large sum and some other things have become apparant so I'm going to fill in the form again

Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 16/03/2021 10:09

Thank you for your response.
My case was referred to the fraud team within the CMS. I am now waiting to hear from them. My ex is claiming to earn £9k yearly so they're questioning this.
I pray he gets caught.

OP posts:
ElsieMc · 16/03/2021 17:21

Yes, mine is with FIU for the second time. First time he claimed to earn £18,000 but he earned £40,000. As it was over 25% more, it was changed during the assessment period.

Second time is not yet complete. He is s/e and claimed to have been laid off from work. I rang his work to ask to leave him a message and they confirmed he still worked there, had never left and offered to pass on a message!

That said, I had an absolute nightmare getting them to investigate. I am a grandparent carer and do not have the depth of knowledge some other posters have as ex partners. I have found for this reason CMS have been very unwilling to move matters forward which is frankly insulting because I was right in what I said on both occasions.

CMS was sold to us as an agency that would get to grips with the self employed issue but it is even worse. It is as though they protect those committing fraud. I will be so glad when I can walk away.

Be prepared to keep on trying op and good luck.

Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 17/03/2021 07:32

It's utterly shocking that us mothers have to endure this. The system is in favour of the fathers. It's full of loopholes & it disgusts me.

OP posts:
Nooker01 · 17/03/2021 17:20

Hi I've just literally come off the phone to CMS about a similar issue. I'm 4 years in. Ex earnt 40k the first year then suddenly went self employed earning nothing for a 60 hour week and now a limited company claiming universal credit because his business isnt bringing in money.....yeah right. I asked them to investigate last year they refused despite evidence showing holidays, flash car, weekends away etc they said they needed more substantial evidence like bank statements. How I would get them I dont know!! I've just asked for it to be referred again. The lady was hopeful they will do this time but I'm not holding my breath. It's a disgrace how they get away with it

Nooker01 · 17/03/2021 17:24

Out of interest what evidence have people provided to get it through the FIU. I've sent copies of texts, number plates of cars, pictures of cars, company details who he contracts for. It's not even like its cash work it's all invoiced so I'm 120% positive if investigated they would find hes lying

Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 17/03/2021 17:27

I didn't need to provide them with anything. I think they're questioning how someone who earns £9k yearly can afford to pay their rent & not apply for a benefit?
They asked me various questions over the phone regarding his lifestyle

OP posts:
queenofthenorthwest · 17/03/2021 17:31

@Nooker01

Hi I've just literally come off the phone to CMS about a similar issue. I'm 4 years in. Ex earnt 40k the first year then suddenly went self employed earning nothing for a 60 hour week and now a limited company claiming universal credit because his business isnt bringing in money.....yeah right. I asked them to investigate last year they refused despite evidence showing holidays, flash car, weekends away etc they said they needed more substantial evidence like bank statements. How I would get them I dont know!! I've just asked for it to be referred again. The lady was hopeful they will do this time but I'm not holding my breath. It's a disgrace how they get away with it
I am in this position. I don't know how to move it forward.

The debt he owes the CMS is now into five figures. They state they can't force him to pay because he claims benefits.

Nooker01 · 17/03/2021 18:24

Ahh I see mine does claim benefit so I've reported for benefit too.

Nooker01 · 17/03/2021 18:25

Its shocking. Do you think they are working and claiming benefit too? If so maybe try get as much evidence as you can.

queenofthenorthwest · 17/03/2021 18:48

He is. He is self employed so I don't know how to prove it.

He lives in a different part of the country to me.

Nooker01 · 17/03/2021 20:14

Have you tried his name in companies house or googled his type of business?

queenofthenorthwest · 17/03/2021 20:26

Yes he has several and I have reported all of them but as he is claiming benefits they will not investigate further. Despite this.

He opens companies, doesn't submit records, kills it off, opens a new one.

I just feel at a total loss and completely let down.

Cocos1 · 17/03/2021 23:03

Hi I didn't have evidence,

I wrote down properties he owned, estimated income off them. Cars leased via business. I have them the reg numbers, company names he owns or has possible income from. Estimates mortgage costs. That I suspected he was paying gf a wage out of company that went to him, that's diversion of income

I only found out about the variation of income form by luck.

Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 26/03/2021 06:52

Just an update for those interested. The person from the FIU investigating my ex telephoned me yesterday & the case is now full steam ahead. I’m praying he gets caught. I’ve waited 3 years for this

OP posts:
Light11 · 27/03/2021 19:11

Hope he gets caught and hmrc also get their tax

Cocos1 · 28/03/2021 22:11

Hope It goes well. Please update when you can, I'm back on case again hope they managed to find his hidden money again

Nooker01 · 28/03/2021 22:24

Great news hope it all goes well. I had a call from a representative of the dwp fraud investigation to ask me more detail. Although she said it is still waiting to go to an officer for assesment I didnt even get a call last time they just refused it so I'm hoping it's a good sign and they can finally catch up with him!

Nooker01 · 28/03/2021 22:27

They can investigate if they are claiming benefits as thays also part of the fraud being committed. I was told a few weeks ago the dwp fraud team and cms fiu have now teamed up so it may be worth another shot

MNWorldisCrazy · 28/03/2021 23:50

They have some serious powers! (It's getting them to actually apply to court to actually USE them that is difficult!) So glad they're doing that with you OP.

Possible reprimands/outcomes:

*Removal of his driving licence

*Court warrant to access his bank account/s (without notifying them) and if sufficient funds, removal of said funds (Unsure on how they determine the amounts to take, btw).
*Charge put on any owned property

*Application to the High Court for a Writ - which LEGALLY enables them to physically access your property (inc breaking in if necessary) and removal of goods

  • before anyone says Bailiffs can't do this, that's correct BUT these are not Bailiffs! They're High Court Sheriffs with a Writ of Entry! 100% Legal.
MNWorldisCrazy · 28/03/2021 23:53

Obviously some of the above is only applicable to those who just simply avoid paying. Unsure of punishments for the fraud aspect. I'm pretty sure it would just be passed to police as a cut & dry criminal Fraud case?

There are other things the CMS can do to non-payers, dependent on the details of the case. Like I said though, it's getting them to actually utilise the powers they have via Courts etc