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Original poster

CMS fraud investigation team

107 replies

Skyvanilla22 · 11/03/2021 12:30

Can anyone please advise.
My ex is currently being investigated by the Financial Investigation team of the CMS.
He is continuing to claim he earns £5 per hour meaning I receive a tiny amount . Unfortunately the company he works is providing the info to HMRC. He is 'on the books' sometimes & cash in hand others. It's a small family run business. The CMS are willing to investigate as I think they have identified discrepancies in my case.
I'm happy they are investigating but I'm not hopeful of a positive outcome.
Has anyone had a positive outcome following an investigation? Or do you know what they actually do? I do know that they work along side the HMRC but unsure what other things they can do.
I really hope someone can help me. I'm actually at my wits end.

OP posts:
dattenboroughiskingoftheworld · 17/04/2021 14:39

@Nooker01

I was told if the FIU get involved they look at the whole period not just isolated period. Definitely appeal. Hope they look at it for you
The problem is my ex isn't declaring these earnings to HMRC so looking at his tax records is not going to show what's going on. I will need to ring and see if they looked into his bank accounts as the £1000's will have had to go through those at some point as his area of speciality never does cash payments. It's the effort that is galling. I wish there were people in the CMS with the tenacity of AC12 to route out bent NRP's and apply the letter of the law, to the letter to nail these wee shites 😂
chesirecat99 · 17/04/2021 14:43

@queenofthenorthwest

Yes he has several and I have reported all of them but as he is claiming benefits they will not investigate further. Despite this.

He opens companies, doesn't submit records, kills it off, opens a new one.

I just feel at a total loss and completely let down.

I'm guessing he doesn't submit any records/the annual return to Companies House then lets it be struck off for non submission before the first company tax return is due so it looks like the company never traded? If he isn't submitting records to Companies House, he probably isn't submitting a company tax return to HMRC nor paying corporation tax. You could report him to HMRC for tax fraud. Unless it is entirely cash in hand, there will be bank statements that they can investigate, even if he has destroyed any records.

If has taken any money out of the companies as dividends and not declared them on self assessment, HMRC will be interested. Even more so if he has taken dividends when the company was insolvent. If he has taken money as a director's loan and not paid it back and the company has debts or owes tax, he will also be in trouble and may have to pay it back.

Of course, it may not help you financially if he ends up being convicted of fraud or is made bankrupt.

Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 17/04/2021 14:44

Yes my case is with the FIU and the past 3 years are being investigated

OP posts:
Nooker01 · 18/04/2021 06:51

Yep this is exactly the same as my ex. They better look at his bank statements or I'll be appealing til my last breath. It's not even about the money anymore, I've managed so long without it it's the principle. I swear the CMS do it this way to test the most resilient parents and their patience. Well I wont be giving up til the truth is out! I do hope we hear some positive news soon 🤞😁

Shilo2 · 05/05/2021 17:53

I wondered did anyone get anywhere with the fiu I sent so many papers ( emails ) .
Waited since Sept there always busy I am sure he’s up to tricks but moved north difficult to find .

Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 05/05/2021 18:20

My investigator called me last week, he’s still gathering evidence on my ex and hopes to have an outcome soon!!! I PRAY he has found something

OP posts:
Starlightstarbright1 · 05/05/2021 18:24

@Skyvanilla22

Just an update for those interested. The person from the FIU investigating my ex telephoned me yesterday & the case is now full steam ahead. I’m praying he gets caught. I’ve waited 3 years for this
Wishing you all the back payments you deserve.
Shilo2 · 07/05/2021 22:18

Can I appeal an fiu decision if they say not enough evidence ?

Original poster
Skyvanilla22 · 08/05/2021 07:13

As far as I’m aware yes you can. I spoke with the investigator involved with my case last week and he informed me that they usually have a ‘positive outcome’ but if they don’t it can go to tribunal? Unsure if that is different

OP posts:
Shilo2 · 09/05/2021 12:34

Ok that gives me another try if that happens difficult to get evidence when they move ect of course the last year as well food industry ect ...

Liliolla · 09/05/2021 13:01

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alfafabean · 09/05/2021 14:46

@Shilo2

Can I appeal an fiu decision if they say not enough evidence ?
My first application was rejected for lack of evidence. I appealed and within a week had an excellent financial investigator ring me asking questions about why I thought ex is concealing income. She was satisfied there was enough to go on but warned it could take a year to get to the bottom of it which is fine as long as it gets done
itsgettingwierd · 09/05/2021 14:53

Does sound like it's positive.

🤞 you hear something soon.

Shilo2 · 09/05/2021 15:17

Great but what about if they had no work and may not have for a while ....
I see no good outcome atm !

alfafabean · 09/05/2021 16:39

@Shilo2

Great but what about if they had no work and may not have for a while .... I see no good outcome atm !
If they have had no income CMS can't be paid with only a small amount being taken off any benefits they receive. If he's claiming no work but he's been working or hiding income that's when the financial investigation team get involved.
LilyinWonderland · 09/05/2021 17:06

I would appreciate some advice please. My ex lives with his parents and says he has no income at all. CMS checked and this is the official case but he has a history of making a lot of money cash in hand. Will they investigate when he could have no overheads?

wineandsunshine · 09/05/2021 18:19

Well my MP wrote to CMS about four weeks ago and surprise surprise, I had a call on Friday!
Unfortunately I was at work, but it's funny how that actually got a response!

Shilo2 · 09/05/2021 18:31

I wonder how they would find cash virtually impossible unless there caught working or maybe emails calls ect ..
It’s like you have to be an investigator I know zero

alfafabean · 10/05/2021 12:52

@LilyinWonderland

I would appreciate some advice please. My ex lives with his parents and says he has no income at all. CMS checked and this is the official case but he has a history of making a lot of money cash in hand. Will they investigate when he could have no overheads?
Hiding cash makes it more tricky but even things like running a car, going on holiday, if he's into the latest tech or designer clothes can all be considered as evidence of a concealed income. It's difficult these days to be a cash only person for everything so there may be evidence on his bank statements that they can force the banks to hand over which may reveal a few things. It's not easy though and you have to be tenacious!
MenopausalMargot · 10/05/2021 20:11

About 4 years ago I spent a day with the CMS FIU Team as part of a job I was doing for another Government department. I don't work there anymore I should point out, so I am not up to date with current procedures.

However, I found that they were totally dedicated in trying to gain evidence to prove that the cases referred to them absolutely had merit and in identifying and proving fraud. As someone with a fraud investigation background myself, I thought that they were highly skilled, experienced and competent and they had some investigatory tools at their disposal that I could only dream of.

Some of the cases they told me about, far and away above anything detailed here, would make your hair curl. I would love to tell you but I can't as I am still bound by the Official Secrets Act. However, please be assured that they try absolutely everything they can to investigate fraud. It is a matter of professional pride for them. But they only have so much capacity, much like many other government functions. If your case hasn't been accepted by the FIU it's probably because there are other higher priority cases to be investigated.

I know that will be disappointing and frustrating but they are dealing with some incredibly resource intensive arseholes. But in relation to those cases they were like dogs with a bone. They did not give up until they had no choice.

alfafabean · 10/05/2021 22:35

@MenopausalMargot that's really good to hear! The investigator who rang me was very impressive and I have faith in her tenacity.

MenopausalMargot · 11/05/2021 12:09

[quote alfafabean]@MenopausalMargot that's really good to hear! The investigator who rang me was very impressive and I have faith in her tenacity. [/quote]
That's great alfafabean! I really hope they get him bang to rights!!

LilyinWonderland · 11/05/2021 18:12

@alfafabean Thank you for that. As far as I know he still pays for a phone contract, petrol, some food, etc despite living with his parents. I do also have it in writing from a few years ago that he was earning 25k a year. Will that count?

alfafabean · 11/05/2021 18:15

[quote LilyinWonderland]@alfafabean Thank you for that. As far as I know he still pays for a phone contract, petrol, some food, etc despite living with his parents. I do also have it in writing from a few years ago that he was earning 25k a year. Will that count?[/quote]
I'm no expert but I'd just say throw everything you have at it. Does he go on holiday? Run a car? Post nights out or check ins at restaurants on social media? Anything that demonstrates they have access to funds to facilitate a lifestyle out with the claims of poverty they are making

LilyinWonderland · 11/05/2021 18:16

Definitely runs a car. Has been on holidays whilst claiming not to work but not since the CMS case was opened.

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