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Maintenance

87 replies

Bythebeach · 15/01/2016 15:24

Am currently having to bite my tongue and not erupt so please help me vent on here so that I can be the bigger person and try to keep things as amicable as possible for the sake of my son!

Over the last year, ex has missed five months of payments and has several months missing from the previous year. I have reminded him verbally and he did apologise and say he would 'sort it out' but hasn't and I have finally resorted to email asking for regular payments and back payment for the last five months but have had a less than apologetic reply from his wife asking for me to detail all the missed payments. I have of course done this.

We have always had a private arrangement set up as the CSA recommended amount 10 years ago. He has never volunteered any increase and I have never asked for one to avoid conflict and keep good relations but he reduced amounts appropriately for the births of the children of his current family and I did not quibble this. I am hurt that when I asked for the missing payments in my email, I had a sceptical email back from his wife! I have extended trust to them by not questioning the maintenance amount and not forcing the issue and it feels like the moment I ask him to live up to his legal reponsibility to provide for his son, they are borderline hostile.

I think I feel excessive rage as I have always done my best to promote a good relationship with my ex but in the last two years my poor son has been much less happy visiting his dad. I asked his father repeatedly if it were possible to give my son a weekend or even day just the two of them (as I have seen advised on here) as I feel part of his unhappiness is down to a particularly tricky sibling in his dad's family but this has not happened. I have always reminded and encouraged my son to Skype his dad but after Oct 15 half-term visit, he had been really unhappy and I was excessively busy at work. I asked once or twice if he wanted to Skype but he did not and his dad did not try once nor ask to Skype yet I had a shirty text after the Xmas visit asking for regular Skype sessions which felt as if it implied I had prevented them. For once, I had not actively promoted them but in no way had I stopped them and I feel they have never given me any credit for the way I have tried to promote the father-son relationship but are quick to blame. They also appear to throw their weight about on random issues at random times and I try to listen seriously to their input yet for weeks on end they appear to forget my son and have no involvement at all!

I guess though I am extremely relieved that I am not married to a man who is so irresponsible he does not provide for his first born child and is not even man enough (oh god -anathema to feminists-I apologise for using that phrase) to reply to me directly when asked for maintenance but has to hide behind his wife. I am sorry though, because I so much wanted my son to have a father worthy of respect and it is very hard to respect him!

OP posts:
LineyReborn · 24/01/2016 08:18

We're here if you need any more support. Best of luck.

Bythebeach · 26/01/2016 00:07

I've had a really reasonable email (signed from ex and wife) stating he can pay from the start of February and seemingly taking on board the concerns and disappointments expressed in my ranty email. I am really pleased they haven't reacted with further hostility and are actually thinking about my son's needs and improving contact. I have already contacted the CMS, however, and am unsure what to do now. I'd much rather have faith that he will pay as they say from now on but equally don't want to have to raise financial issues with them again and would rather just communicate about my boy's welfare. They make no mention of the now 12 months total of missed payments over the last two years....

OP posts:
LineyReborn · 26/01/2016 01:14

I would be very careful indeed, and let the CMS handle things. But that's my personal experience.

starry0ne · 26/01/2016 02:54

I am quite cynical but unless he is self employed I would continue down the CMS route... You can do direct payment which won't cost you or him more but I think she is well aware how much more he should be paying you than what she is planning to pay you..

He sounds like he is her puppet

Emeralda · 26/01/2016 08:12

What are you unsure about doing, OP? It doesn't sound to me like you have to do anything in response to the email. You've made a huge amount of effort over the years to maintain a civil relationship with them, how would you feel about just stepping back and seeing how this one plays out?

I still can't believe her name is on the email, by the way.

Bythebeach · 26/01/2016 10:17

I guess I'm unsure about continuing down the CMS route and would like to give them a final chance to do the right thing. Is that too nice? I suppose I am staggeringly naive and from all your input, will continue with the CMS.

OP posts:
TheHobbitMum · 26/01/2016 10:27

I'd keep open the cms case, they've missed more than enough payments! You've been more than patient and understanding but enough is enough x

brittanyfairies · 26/01/2016 10:41

Sorry to thread hijack, I'm in an identical situation to you Bythebeach ex has no interaction with DCs and now maintenance is hit and miss. It was agreed by Court Order when we divorced. I'd like to have no more contact with him because he just gets nasty. So my question is, if my ex who is the NRP lives and works in the UK but our DCs are abroad, would the CMS work for me. I have a UK address, bank account etc, just our physical living is in a different European state. I know I could apply via a REMO but I think this can be a long drawn out tactic.

Good luck OP in getting your maintenance, if I were you I'd stick with the CMS, then he has no wiggle room and you've got something definite set in stone.

Sorry again for the hijack.

Bythebeach · 26/01/2016 10:51

No worried brittany. I'm afraid I have no idea regarding if the CMS would work whilst you are abroad. Have you called Child Maintenance Options? I think you have to call them first in any case before applying via the CMS and they may be able to advise you if the CMS can work for you. I see no reason why it shouldn't if he lives and works in the UK and you have a UK bank account!

OP posts:
Clutterbugsmum · 26/01/2016 11:03

I'd keep going down the CMS route because it takes away their his power about whether or how much he is going to give you.

starry0ne · 26/01/2016 12:42

I think like they are going to think they can do what you want if you pull out from CMS... I don't believe for one moment they will pay you legal minimum and then there will be the we have had to pay for this so can't pay this month.

I think sometimes it is easy for you not to want to make waves but they happily have done so by not paying and everything else.
I think the fact he didn't pay you 5 times in the last year and then missed several payments before means he is not going to give consistent payments without cms

Emeralda · 26/01/2016 14:22

I don't think you're naive, OP, but I do admire your optimism! What would him doing the right thing look like? Meeting February payment? Paying the missed payments by a certain date? It's up to you, depending on the time, energy and resources available to you. Don't feel you have to go ahead with anything because of pressure from anyone, including us!

Bythebeach · 26/01/2016 22:17

I think the right thing would be back payment for the last five (now six!) months (I am sure he can't afford the whole lot he's missed but some effort would be nice) and reliable payments from now on. Realistically, it's not going to happen!! I'll keep going with the CMS.

It's not optimism I don't think. It's just having to fully acknowledge that this man who has little by little eroded my trust and let down his son was someone who I honestly believed would be a good and responsible father. And he's not! And, as someone mentioned upthread, he's also turning into his wife's puppet!!! What a disappointment.

OP posts:
Bythebeach · 04/02/2016 12:40

So update!! The case is with the CMS. The ex's wife (thinly veiled as a joint email) has emailed to state that they have been overpaying me and that I owe them thousands!!! This is because we had a private arrangement which used the old CSA calculator as a basis but under the new CMS apparently they deduct for their childcare and their travel to see my son (as well as pension which I knew about). I as not fussed if the amount goes down - given that they have missed a year's worth of payments, a regular amount is preferable. But I am outraged that they think I owe them thousands - we had a private arrangement based on the old CSA calculator 9 years ago and neither of us sought to vary it (except for deductions for his kids births - see above). Am I right in thinking

  1. a private arrangement mutually agreed cannot then be turned on its head and called an over payment
  2. even if it could, missing a year's worth of payments is likely to offset that?

And do the CMS deduct his travel costs and his childcare from maintenance for his non-resident child? Or would they have had to apply for a variation and have it upheld?

Raging again.....

OP posts:
Bythebeach · 04/02/2016 12:42

Please help mums net!!! I am so upset. Can't they see I have tried my best to be reasonable - I've never asked for increases and only started playing hard ball when a total of eleven payments had been missed!!!!!

OP posts:
HerRoyalNotness · 04/02/2016 12:57

I think she is trying to get you to go back to private as they probably owe more. The only deductions are for overnights and DC they have.

Do not listen to a word they say, wait for CMS to contact you. Go to the CMS website and check everything, it will be all listed there

lunar1 · 04/02/2016 13:01

They only one of your questions I can answer and that's about the over payment nonsense. You won't have to pay money back it was a private arrangement.

Why on earth can your ex not deal
With this himself, bloody ridiculous that he's got his wife doing it!

They may just be trying to gaslight you into calling off the cms, I'd keep the case going and he can pay through them to give you some security.

LeaLeander · 04/02/2016 13:19

Keep going with CMS. Your duty to get your son's rightful payments totally trumps your desire to not rock the boat with his father and stepmother. Tell her it's best if financial matters are handled via officials instead of personally. Stop being drawn in by her emails.

Your poor son sounds so unhappy. Maybe he needs a counselor as well.

starry0ne · 04/02/2016 14:00

I am not suprised the way it has gone..I also agree he/she are trying to get you to back out... I can guarantee if you pulled out of the CMS they would reduce payments and deductions for everything .

I would ignore any correspondence with them about maintenance.. Leave it with the CMS. they can listen to the squirm out of playing for your child...

You will not owe any previous over payment.( as they want to call it...It is private agreement... there is no law that says you can't pay more than the legal minimum .. The rest the rest the CMS will be able to answer on wesite and give them a call.

ElderlyKoreanLady · 04/02/2016 14:35

Dear XH's wife,

The maintenance agreement for my son actually has nothing to do with you. However, as I'm sensing some hostility from you, please let me remind you that before I chose to involve CMS in order to ensure XH's payments were reliable, the amount XH paid was agreed upon by both me and him. An overpayment was therefore not possible. Let me also remind you that despite this private arrangement, he's missed 13 payments totalling £X and there has been no offer to make good on these payments.

The CMS will handle the maintenance agreement from now on in order to prevent missed payments. Kindly remove yourself from the situation.

Thanks,

OP

AlwaysOutnumberdNeverOutgunned · 04/02/2016 17:33

what Elderly said!

Bythebeach · 04/02/2016 19:51

Oh Elderly that would have been great but unfortunately I have fired off an email inarticulate with rage!! It's so easy once you stop being all nice (having done nearly a decade of it) for things to become hostile. And it is worse because of all the unsaid things over the years.

I essentially said though that it had been a private, mutually agreed arrangement 9 years ago. I had no idea after the initial agreement what ex has earned. I never tried to gain extra money and was never privy to his earnings so I never knowingly asked for/agreed to extra over the CMS - he chose to pay the amount he paid!! He never asked to vary it except reductions for his kids - hardly my fault if he now discovers his calculations were wrong!! And the money he paid is nowhere near half what our son costs anywhere.

OP posts:
Emeralda · 04/02/2016 22:04

Wow, they really don't get it, do they? Just send Elderly's fabulous email in response to their next one. I have a colleague who "strop tests" my emails at work if needed. I wish Elderly worked in my office.
I think their email is proof, if it were needed, that CMS is the way to go in the long run.
How is contact going in the meantime? Is DS doing ok?
FlowersWineCake whatever is required.

Bythebeach · 06/02/2016 20:44

I could do with an Elderly to make mine more incisive and less stroppy!!

My son is okay - very happy at home but not seen his dad since Xmas hol. Will see him for half-term as usual. Skyping weekly which I have to keep reminding my son to do.

I feel like I can't get past this though. After a decade where I have tried to be fair, enable their relationship, not complained nor asked for more I have been kicked in the teeth. Does one just cut off all communication (except where essential for son) in this scenario and abandon any pretence of amicability?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 06/02/2016 20:51

Yeah I think you do, be civil and polite but you know what the contact arrangements are and let CMS deal with the money.

In a few years it may all calm down again but for now try and detach completely.