Maintenance

[Bythebeach]

Am currently having to bite my tongue and not erupt so please help me vent on here so that I can be the bigger person and try to keep things as amicable as possible for the sake of my son!

Over the last year, ex has missed five months of payments and has several months missing from the previous year. I have reminded him verbally and he did apologise and say he would 'sort it out' but hasn't and I have finally resorted to email asking for regular payments and back payment for the last five months but have had a less than apologetic reply from his wife asking for me to detail all the missed payments. I have of course done this.

We have always had a private arrangement set up as the CSA recommended amount 10 years ago. He has never volunteered any increase and I have never asked for one to avoid conflict and keep good relations but he reduced amounts appropriately for the births of the children of his current family and I did not quibble this. I am hurt that when I asked for the missing payments in my email, I had a sceptical email back from his wife! I have extended trust to them by not questioning the maintenance amount and not forcing the issue and it feels like the moment I ask him to live up to his legal reponsibility to provide for his son, they are borderline hostile.

I think I feel excessive rage as I have always done my best to promote a good relationship with my ex but in the last two years my poor son has been much less happy visiting his dad. I asked his father repeatedly if it were possible to give my son a weekend or even day just the two of them (as I have seen advised on here) as I feel part of his unhappiness is down to a particularly tricky sibling in his dad's family but this has not happened. I have always reminded and encouraged my son to Skype his dad but after Oct 15 half-term visit, he had been really unhappy and I was excessively busy at work. I asked once or twice if he wanted to Skype but he did not and his dad did not try once nor ask to Skype yet I had a shirty text after the Xmas visit asking for regular Skype sessions which felt as if it implied I had prevented them. For once, I had not actively promoted them but in no way had I stopped them and I feel they have never given me any credit for the way I have tried to promote the father-son relationship but are quick to blame. They also appear to throw their weight about on random issues at random times and I try to listen seriously to their input yet for weeks on end they appear to forget my son and have no involvement at all!

I guess though I am extremely relieved that I am not married to a man who is so irresponsible he does not provide for his first born child and is not even man enough (oh god -anathema to feminists-I apologise for using that phrase) to reply to me directly when asked for maintenance but has to hide behind his wife. I am sorry though, because I so much wanted my son to have a father worthy of respect and it is very hard to respect him!

I think yes you need to remove yourself from most communication with them...Your raging email while understandable plays right into their court... I would give yourself a rule never reply within 24 hours of an email ..

They( she) have abandoned any pretence not you... but don't get drawn in .. You know the reason you have gone to the CMS... they know the reasons... Any further conversation on the subject is pointless..I am assuming s it is the 6th of Feb no payment has arrived in your account this tells you all you need to know.

I like the 24 hour rule! I'm really hot tempered and have bitten down on it for all the irritations big and small with the ex for years but now it's like I've let the monster out it can't be re-caged!!!

They haven't paid but the CMS says payments will start in March backdated to Jan. The ex has applied for a variation to reduce the amount for the travel they do for contact. Shame I can't be recompensed for the all the travel I do to facilitate contact for them! I wouldn't mind as I understand the travel is expensive - but there is no apology/humility that they will reduce maintenance to pay for their travel costs but I still have to bear the same travel costs and cannot lower the amount it costs to look after my son!
When I had my son, my relationship with my ex was falling apart. He promised regardless of whether we were together or apart he would be there for his son and and would parent and support him. I completely trusted his love for his unborn son. It still hurts that he has let him down so badly. It is so common and yet so despicable that men have children with one woman and then go on to have others with a different woman and do not honour the commitments made to the first child. I cannot understand why we as a society don't publicly vilify them.

Why don't you stop doing the travel? Or tell him he needs to repay you for the cost?

Don't do any of the travel

It has occurred to me RandomMess and I might stop doing the travel. But I don't want to do anything petty or anything that is wrong. If he is able to reclaim the cost though, it would seem fair to do so. What do others think?

At the end of the day, I want to be able to hold my head up and to date if my son were to ask when he grows up, I have no shame in relating any of my behaviour with regard to bringing him up/maintenance/contact. I've always wanted what is best for my son and although I have grave concerns regarding his father's integrity, I have enabled my son to know and love his dad. I think that if at all possible, a good relationship with his dad is in my son's best interests - best for his sense of self and self-esteem.

Please stop doing any travel then and wait for the payments.
I also took a step back when my boys went to secondary and they have phones. I do not get involved with access although for sons 1 and two it's very much tailed off.
Sending you hugs though.... I am a hot head too. And stop all emails to the wife.

But he is older now and is similarly telling you to take his feelings into consideration. He doesn't want to stay etc.
I can see why you have done things but maybe see this as a new era :)

More emails tonight expecting us to deliver son 400 miles for half term - never been a problem in the past. But galling in light of their CMS variations for travel application. They will bring him back - but of course will be offsetting the cost against their maintenance. They don't seem to get the inequality of their request at all!

Anyone have any experience of the CMS rules on travel variation if both parents make the journey? Not to mention the fact the it was the father who initially chose to move hundreds of miles away?

And I haven't replied. Am applying the 24 hour rule as advised!!

Keep the case open with cms. As a step mum we ALWAYS have money to the ex for my dps kids, bought them things she demanded they needed (along with having to provide clothing and shoes for our home too)
Then she decided she wanted more (dp lost his job and I paid out of my earnings) she told us to fuck off and rang the Csa.
After I provided proof of weekend/holiday stays etc the CSA decided on shared care and said she was entitled to nothing! I'd like to think she pissed them right off by saying we had them 2/3 nights a YEAR and I proved that was in fact bullshit!
Not all step parents are out to screw the exes over but this one sounds like a twat - they're made for each other obviously!

If they're trying to reduce maintenance by claiming travel expenses, let them do the travelling. No ifs, ands or buts. Them saying they need to pay less maintenance to account for travel means they're taking on more than 50% of the travel.

And YY to the 24 hour rule for people prone to rage responses It's also handy when the subject is this delicate to have a very level headed friend to read your draft over before you hit send.

*Dear ExH,
As you're planning on reducing maintenance in order to account for travel costs, I can only assume that you plan to take on 100% of the travel obligation to facilitate contact with DS. Please let me know when he can be expected to be collected.

Thanks,

OP*

I completely agree. He has asked for a variation so let him do all the travelling.

I wouldn't travel a single mile for someone who chose to move so far away from their child. If he wants those costs accounting for then why would he think you should pay any of it?

Had the initial assessment changed much as the wife claimed?

Also as he isn't paying yet I would just say half term is not doable as you have no maintenance. Plan some nice treats with your son :)

Initial assessment had barely changed compared to what he was paying. I wonder whether my initial email upset them because I suggested it was likely he'd have had a pay rise in the last decade and actually he hasn't!!! Not that I ever asked, it just seemed natural to me that someone in a professional job would have done.

Son is expecting to go up for 5 days at half term so I won't mess with that. He is used to going at half-terms and holidays of around a week at a time.

With regard to travel, when son was 4 he moved a couple of hundred miles away and when son was nearly 6 I moved over a hundred miles in the opposite direction so it had seemed fair to split the journeys to date.

I have spent a lot of the night googling travel variations and child support law. It suggests that they do not just take the cost of travel off the amount he pays me - they just take it off the gross pay they use to then use to put into the calculator to work out the maintenance so it does not have such a huge impact.

There is nothing in the law though which seems to account for the resident parent/parent with care undertaking half the journeys anyway which surprises me and strikes me as grossly unfair. Surely there should be some recognition that if I undertake half the journeys then travel i already fairly shared!

I'm sorry you're in this situation. How crap.

I don't know what rules the cms apply but I don't think travel is deductible.

How horrid of his DF to put a cost barrier against seeing his son, more galling that he moved away.

He should move heaven and earth for that contact.

I personally wouldn't facilitate contact. Ever. Nor do I ever tell my DC that their father loves them. If he cannot do those things himself then it's pretty obvious to the DC as they grow older.

Mine are much younger. Ex only lives a mile away. My DD didn't want to go last summer and I coaxed her into visiting. Things are back to normal.

But if your son says he doesn't want to go, doesn't want to Skype, then put the voice record on your phone, subtly record that he voiced that opinion. You don't have to do anything with it, just keep as a record in case things turn nasty.

Well I think you should just offer to do a 3rd of the journey from now on as a maximum. Let him have a hissy fit about it!!!

Still it just goes to show that you're not going to end up getting less as they were hoping to.

more galling that he moved away

Tbf the OP has moved further away too

OP stuck to your guns. The 24hr rule is a good one. It worked well for DH and his exW over the years

I crossed posts about moving away.

But my point still remains. He should move heaven and earth to facilitate contact.

It's tricky as it's not crystal clear what's best for my son. He did not enjoy his Summer, Oct nor Xmas visits to his dad BUT he does love his dad and want to see his dad so it's not as simple as just stopping half-term contact as that won't be in his best interests. But what son wants is time with his dad and what they foist on him is 'family time' which I get as they want him to be a part of their family too. My son clearly feels that that is secondary to being with his dad though and just wants some time with his dad to himself. But he is worried about upsetting his dad and so doesn't seem to voice his dislikes when there but just tells them to me when home (main complaints are one of the siblings and lack of any one to one time with father). I think my stroppy emails have at least made them take on board that he has really not enjoyed his last few visits - verbally relaying this over the last few months/years had no impact at all.

Son also misses time to just chill out at home at e.g. half term - he is very relieved this half term is five days and not seven/eight as he has a few days down time at home. I have generally gone along with their suggestions for contact for example conceding to 3 weeks over the summer hol 2015 (usually he did 2 weeks in summer prior to that) but when son came home he was very upset and had been very homesick. I shan't be doing that any longer but will take into account son's preferences and my intuitive feel for what would work.

I have been afraid of being unreasonable so have allowed pretty much all contact requested and facilitated by sharing the journeys but I guess what I hadn't taken into account is that after a decade of being resident parent, my son is most comfortable at home, naturally, and that whilst knowing his dad is important it's not essential to have tonnes of lengthy contact if it doesn't make son happy and son would prefer to be at home.

Posted this in Chat this morning but just hoping you clever types over here who had such good ideas above might be able to help please:

Just waved my ten year old off for five days at his dad's. He was upset last night and spoke to his dad which helped a little but he wanted to sleep in my bed before he went today and was still saying he didn't want to go when he left. His dad was supportive in some ways on the phone but the issue bothering me, which I'd like as much advice and evidence on as possible, is my son is desperate for one to one time with his dad but his dad made it very clear visits were to the whole family (dad, step-mum, 2 half-sibs) and not just about father-son bonding. Now, I appreciate from his dad's perspective he wants my son to be part of his family and I am not denying the importance of spending time with all of them but am I wrong in thinking the primary aim of contact is for my son to see his dad? As I understand it, it is that bond with his dad that will inform my son's ongoing self-esteem and mental health? I'm not at all averse to my son be part of his dad's family too but my son is clearly communicating that he wants time just with his dad and has been made to feel that that is unreasonable/not what contact is about.
What should I do to support my son? I don't feel I agree with his dad's stance but should I pretend I do? Should I keep pushing for some one to one time with his dad? I can't force his dad to change his view point though?

It really is for son to talk to his dad. The thing is if you force the issue you will be the one in the firing line and I have had this happen.
I would just suggest he raise it with him. Remember he has you to himself so different might just not be doable. My youngest felt the same and his dad listened but did very little about it. In the nicest possible way it's none of your business (sorry)

To be honest with this one leave it.. They will have to deal with upset from Ds...They are not going to listen to you..

Resurrecting this old thread as the fallout from this maintenance issue and the ex's subsequent hostility has made for a horrible year to date and it seems they still bear me much ill will because of it.

Since last posting, son visited dad half-terms and Easter and was supposed to go for two weeks in the summer. He started moaning and griping about not wanting to go to dad's on the plane to our own summer holiday! I had a bit of a meltdown saying I didn't particularly want him to go either but he had a right to know his dad and I had a duty to help him do this! In the end he went but was really miserable and came back after 3 nights. Ex seems to think I am somehow responsible and poor son said ex and his wife were v cold when he decided to go home. Now half term is looming and I emailed proposing a couple of days visit to try to get son into seeing them again and was berated for emailing DS's father alone and not father & step-mother. It feels never ending. Like they can't get over the animosity from the guilt of their not paying and are never focuses on DS's needs but on their 'rights' and ex's wife's 'status' in son's life. Can't bear it!!!

NB Their travel claim was refused which gave me quiet satisfaction!