Ladies - Add your vote if you think the court system/authorities are failing us and our children

[Lionessnurturingcubs]

Numerous threads on here and elsewhere have indicated that the "Family Law" system in this country is failing us - lone mothers and our children.

This country stigmatises single parent mothers. There is a totally false perception that we are all in our teens, living off the state. WE ARE NOT.

The Gingerbread website has the actual statistics:-
The average age of a single parent is 38.1.

59.2% of us work.
Half had children within marriage. It is safe to assume that a lot more had children within a relationship.

As mothers, we have a natural instinct to protect our children. We have a right to ensure that NO-ONE, even the biological father, has the right to damage them emotionally, physically, or in any other way. This right is being denied us through the 'Family Law' system in this country, which is stacked against the father.

We have had enough. We now want to organise into a coherent group and are considering taking our voice to the European Court of Human Rights. Please add a one liner here, if you agree or support this principle. It does not mean you are committing to anything, we just want to see the wealth of feeling behind this. Please name change if you don't want to give anything away!

I guess my thoughts stem from the actual facts regarding violence.

The fathers rights campaigners would have a stronger argument if it weren't for the fact that the overwhelming number of abuse cases are carried out by men. Almost all violent crime (incl obviously DV) is committed by a man.

I would say that 90% of the time that I turn on the news there is a case of a man being violent or abusive. In this I include terrorists, violent robberies etc as its all symptomatic of a fundamental truth. Very rarely is there a case of a woman. & even more rarely is it a woman acting alone.

Until these statistics change, and men are equally as unviolent as women, mothers should always have the first consideration in court for the care of children.

Perhaps the fathers rights campaigners should work on that instead.

Sock courts bend over backwards to make sure an abusive man can get his 'contact rights'. Supervised contact should have been a given in my case, but he has persistently refused it... so what do the courts do, they ignore and dismiss evidence to give him exactly what he wants.

Women are almost powerless to protect their children.

Just about to go to the Court of Appeal with this :(

Sock reading your posts is like looking in a mirror. It still scares me to think how much power he had and still has.

Baby that's exactly what I said.

One of the huge problems is that normal decent parents rarely need to go to court.

But abusers use it as a legally ok way to continue to abuse

Sock is absolutely right. If a father wants to see his children, and do the right thing by them he will work with the mother to ensure the best possible outcome for the kids. If he is an abuser, he will go to court, report her to SS, etc. Women's aid have all the statistics, yet the Family Law system blatantly ignores them. Why?

No woman would want to deny her children seeing their father, we simply want to protect them. Why is overnight contact considered so essential by this Family Law System? My kids had overnight contact, and they would see a different woman "having a sleepover" on a Friday night followed by another woman "having a sleepover" on a Saturday night and he told them to keep it a secret from all the women. What mother would not want to protect their children from seeing that? How am I supposed to instill morals in them up against that?
Why would it have been more detrimental for them to see their father on a day visit rather than having to endure this? The ONLY person who benefitted from the overnight contact was the father. He wasn't interested in his children - evidenced by the number of different women he had there when they were there. He fought for overnight contact simply to abuse me.

The emotional abuse we have ALL endured since I left him has been far worse than the physical abuse when I was there. And it is the courts that are legalising this abuse. Shocking.

If we want to change the youth offending problem we have in this country, then we need to take a long hard look at the Family Law process.

Sock ...another one who wants to thank you for your posts

Its just dreadful isn't it :(

Lioness that's how I feel... what we've been through since we left was arguably worse than when we were with him and that is saying something.

And yes about overnight contact. Its been established that is the worst type of contact to have if the parent is abusive...

Read this www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed104458 sums it up very well xx

hi everyone. been away fro a few days was just too emotionally and physically washed out from it all. am back now though and need updating about what's going on?? so sad to read so many people going through utter crap with the courts. this thread is really important though because I think its very hard for people to understand what we re going through, even family and friends. I had an email from my MP with some info about the campaign for family court reform. I will post what he said with links below:

Government reforms to Family Private & Public Law.

The Children and Families Bill 2013 is presently passing through the House of Lords after passage in the House of Commons.

The Bill (as is) may be read at: www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2013-2014/0032/14032.pdf

The key measures are:

? Creating a time limit of six months by which care cases must be completed.
? Making it explicit that case management decisions should be made only after impacts on the child, their needs and timetable have been considered.
? Focusing the court on those issues which are essential to deciding whether to make a care order.
? Getting rid of unnecessary processes in family proceedings by removing the requirement for interim care and supervision orders to be renewed every month by the judge and instead allowing the judge to set the length and renewal requirements of interim orders for a period which he or she considers appropriate, up to the expected time limit.
? Requiring courts to have regard to the impact of delay on the child when commissioning expert evidence and whether the court can obtain information from parties already involved.
? Requiring parents in dispute to consider mediation as a means of settling that dispute rather than litigation by making attendance at a mediation information and assessment meeting a statutory prerequisite to starting court proceedings.
? Freeing up judicial time by allowing legal advisers to process uncontested divorce applications.

Reviews & Reports on Family Law

The final report of the Family Justice Review was published in November 2011
www.gov.uk/government/publications/family-justice-review-final-report
The government has now published its response to the independent Family Justice Review.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/family-justice-review-government-response
The bill?s private and public family law provisions would apply to England and Wales.

APPG on Family Law and the Court of Protection
For further details please follow the links:
familylaw.allpartyparliamentarygroup.org.uk/

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/family-law-and-the-court-of-protection.htm

it's good to see that an act is being passed through the Lords at the moment but from the list of changes I think a lot could be added to it!!

If people are really up for a campaign I think we need to draw up a proper strategy. I don't mind talking via email if that makes it easier so we can all be kept in the loop?

Even Skype?? I'm in the midlands so if anyone is close by could discuss over coffee perhaps?

babyhammock - thanks for the link. The report is very god and highlights most area that need changing. However, no matter if reports are done or not the courts don't have to listen do they?

I know the sturge and glaser one is well known but that seems to be totally ignored too. :(

The children's act already says DV must be taken into account when deciding contact issues.

That does not mean it needs to lead to any restrictions just that it needs to take it into account.

Mediation is dreadful for abuse victims its a none committed procedure nobody is going to be told they are acting like an abusive twat equally as such nobody is going to be told they are placing their child at risk of abuse its just giving abusers yet another forum to bang on about there rights and what they want. Its why its never ever been advised for cases with a history of DV but that gets repeatedly ignored,

As does the danger of DV and anger management the two do not go together DV perp program's are very different to anger management DV is not a anger issue it is a power and control issue anger management teaches more effective ways of using power and control in abusive ways but ones less likely to result in a criminal conviction but all a perp has to say in court is I've done anger management and bingo apparently they are cured of there abusive tendencies.

Nrp's are allowed to behave in ways that if a pwc did the kids would end up in care,

And it does not help that allegedly intelligent people (happens a lot on here) advocate 50/50 no matter what the circumstances and try and claim that the courts advocate that because they don't as a general rule unless both parties want it people get so concerned about the poor men being treated badly by bitchy ex's because its never the men's fault, the very same posters who rip into mums for tiny wrongs tend to be the same ones who want to absolve dads of any responsibility for shockingly bad behaviour then go on to call actual abuse a difference in parenting style, and apparently this makes both parties equal well it does not,not expecting the same standards of decency and commitment from both parents and making allowances for dad because he's a bloke is exactly the thing they are slating mum for in the equality stakes.

I was looking at that list too thinking it was totally inappropriate for DV victims including the fast tracking.

And yes yes to everything sock said above :(

Almost every aspect of how family courts rule totally disregards DV or only pays lip service to it.

Over the years I've come across children being murdered by nrp's or the pwc being seriously assaulted or murdered by the nrp. Children being physically and sexually abused by DV perps or witnessing the new gf being beaten up or the nrp being drugged out of there minds and unable to care for the kids. Ie known of baby's being returned in the same nappy they arrived in (2 days before) starving hungry. Every single one of the pwc's involved in these cases had previously been involved in a court hearing had brought the violence to the attention of the courts and had expressed serious concerns to the courts about unsupervised and or overnight contact and every single one was ignored.

Best case (but frequent scenario) is nrp who has no interest in any contact at all but enjoys the power trip there 'rights' give them so they get contact and collect children (or get someone else to) and drop the children off elsewhere have no contact with them at all until its time for them to be dropped off again.

Yet I can count on one hand the amount of nrp's who are allowed no direct contact at all.

The courts seem to forget that certain things are far more likely to happen in households where DV happens these include sexual abuse animal abuse and neglect, the RSPCA nspcc and woman's aid have a lot of info about this on there websites and they are things included in social work training but the courts tend to treat it as 'oh well its not that big a deal' unless you have the skills and the support and funds to prevent them doing so

sock you're making me feel vindicated but massively depressed at the same time because its all so true.

My ex behaved atrociously in court, was completely unable to give a truthful account about anything and there are ongoing criminal investigations for rape against him. The judge has ordered unsupervised staying contact for DS who has no relationship with his father and no idea who he is. If I don't comply there will be an automatic reversal of residency with no hearing :(

Why? Because my ex is steadfastly refusing supervised contact so if the judge doesn't order unsupervised contact, contact won't happen...and we can't have that can we :(. Though of course its dressed up as there is no need for supervised contact etc etc

I've applied to the court of appeal x

Do you actually have a court order that states residency reversal with no hearing?

Yup! Its completely automatic. It also gives no provision for extenuating circumstances either..for example if we had an accident, ended up in hospital and failed to make contact the automatic residency would come into effect and I'd then have to fight to have him back. Same if he physically assaulted DS, I would still have to present him for contact or else DS would be removed...effectively leaving me or the authorities unable to protect him without DS also being taken away from me.

Its so horrendous and draconian that I think the Court of Appeal will have to give me permission to appeal...but then again :(

My victim support worker thinks my MP will get behind me

jesus christ babyhammock that is just so vile! the whole system is a joke its actually quite frightening knowing i could be facing this when i give birth. just seems like i havent got a hope in hell in escaping his clutches

bang on sock x

Honey, if I knew then what I know now I would have moved and changed names ...everything, before DS was even born. Not a day goes by when I don't regret not doing that.

Honey.

I say this a lot and I get flamed for it but I want you to consider something.

When you give birth do not tell him or any of his family. Also do not tell him when you are registering the birth and don't give him the chance to turn up and register with you. (Hoping your not married) do not even disclose afterwards.

This will make it harder for him to do the contact thing.granted it won't be impossible as he can still get court ordered pr but its more of a faff for him and the longer he leaves it the harder it will be

Lots of them won't bother with the expense and the faff if its not easy for them to do ( so you know he can no longer get legal aid to assist him either)

thankfully no im not married to him, he made the red flags too obvious very early on to fool me into doing that. unluckily for him ive been through an abusive relationship before, and was brought up in one so i know their evil little tricks.

i havent seen him for 12 weeks now but i bet he'll materialise and cause trouble when im due. he knows when my due date is but i dont intend to have him anywhere near me. hes made it clear hes happy to use my poor dcs to get his way (he did the ss thing). ive had the whole im gonna get custody see u in court thing etc etc hes bragged about running away with his dd (who hes prevented from seeing for the last 2years by his ex).
hes so selfish and vile its unreal. at the mo hes teetering on the edge of getting an injunction, i suspect hes being careful cos of that, hence why hes gone quiet. i dare say hes still dragging my name through the dirt though, telling his allies how im stopping him seeing his child for no reason (you know the script)

god where do i find these people ?

im getting really anxious though... its like the calm before the storm... im scared at the prospect of the courts failing my kids. x

the court order thing- its 215 to apply for one, is that just the application or does that pay for all hearings, investigations etc as well as the application?

cos hes saying hes going to get a pr order and contact order (hes threatened residence order too ) for this baby. but he needs a contact order for his dd too. is it as simple as sticking them all on one form and getting it all done in one shebang? surely the courts cant be as pliable as that?
worries me about the kindof society my kids are growing up in

sorry to hijack the thread tom

Right court fees are not my knowledge thing unless they are for certain orders but afaik and Im Pretty sure I'm right.

Each application has its own charge, so the pr would be one charge then the contact order another then the residency would be another.

A different application is required for each one unless they share the same form (like a occupation order and a none mol are the same form so that's one charge but a occupation order and a divorce would be 2 sets of fees as they are different forms)

He would also need a different application for each family so one for his daughter and another for any child he has with you.

The court fees cover all hearings on the matter that the forms for but not any investigations or reports.

How old is his daughter?

A few things to think about,if he has been apart from the mother for quite a while and the child is a few years old,if he hasn't bothered by now its unlikely he will anytime soon,lots and lots of men make these threats but very few can be arsed to actually to go for it unless they already have ongoing cases or have the financial means for cost not to be an issue and if he's telling you his abusive master plan then he's really not that bright so more likely to fall into the won't bother camp.

Lots of cases also end up before the courts because they are brought by the party who is trying to stop something happening,people get advised to seek orders when they don't really need to.

I'm thinking of threads on here I've seen when mums in your situation have been advised to get legal advice and obtain residency orders but when a dad has no pr its really best to do nothing because if you go for a residency order even if your circumstances don't require one ( and if he has no pr then your circumstances will never require one) your bringing him into the court system and saving him the fee's as well as creating an open case.

It really is a case of wait until he brings any court action because until he does you don't have to do anything.

i thought so!! i had a feeling id be opening a case for him if i made the first move! ive asked so many people that and theyve never given me a straight answer. i assume ill be notified in some way if he applies for pr?
i think its far too easy for anyone to just get pr, i read a thread once where a womans ex was applying for pr and he wasnt even the dad- nor was he with her for long i mean wtf!!

his dd is 4, he last saw her at 2. x

i think he did send off the forms (so he said) but they got send back but then he spent the fee money on nights out fags and takeaways- then told people he paid rent with it

Pr is not easy to get as people say unless you are an active part of the child's life and you would be expected to be showing a level of commitment to the child( if you are then its very easy)
But anybody can apply to the courts for pretty much anything they want but it does not mean they will get it.

In theory I could apply to the courts because I don't like your socks but it does not mean I will get anywhere.

Yes if he applies you will be notified and do not ignore it. And they do not send back the forms and payment unless you fucked the forms up I think he's telling lies and said it to frighten you. If he hasn't bothered with his dd for 2 years he's unlikely to bother with your child