Ladies - Add your vote if you think the court system/authorities are failing us and our children

[Lionessnurturingcubs]

Numerous threads on here and elsewhere have indicated that the "Family Law" system in this country is failing us - lone mothers and our children.

This country stigmatises single parent mothers. There is a totally false perception that we are all in our teens, living off the state. WE ARE NOT.

The Gingerbread website has the actual statistics:-
The average age of a single parent is 38.1.

59.2% of us work.
Half had children within marriage. It is safe to assume that a lot more had children within a relationship.

As mothers, we have a natural instinct to protect our children. We have a right to ensure that NO-ONE, even the biological father, has the right to damage them emotionally, physically, or in any other way. This right is being denied us through the 'Family Law' system in this country, which is stacked against the father.

We have had enough. We now want to organise into a coherent group and are considering taking our voice to the European Court of Human Rights. Please add a one liner here, if you agree or support this principle. It does not mean you are committing to anything, we just want to see the wealth of feeling behind this. Please name change if you don't want to give anything away!

you have my vote

While I agree there need to be changes in the court system, and I have experience of unsafe decisions being made I disagree totally that it is about mothers being the caring nurturing protectors guarding the young and fathers being the threat. Of course fathers have those protectice instincts too, it's ridiculous to assume they don't just because there are parents of both sexes who are abusive

You are quite right may the point has been addressed up thread but as a few posters have already said whilst this is true it is a myth that most cases have these issues.

Whilst some women abuse and are `contact blockers' these instances are rare - they are however soon voiced and appear to be the norm, detracting deliberatley from the real issues.

In the majority of cases where there is a kind loving father, the case does not come to court. Having sole care for a DC is very hard, the vast majority of prents would love to share care but any parent's first priority has to be the welfare of thier child.

As cases go on and on the control/abuse one parent may be trying to force on the other does come out, which ever way that is - what we are saying is that in the meantime the DC have suffered.

One of the aims of the campaign is to keep what you say in perspective inside courtrooms and out of them.

With very little stats on actual outcomes for children and virtually no accountability for decisions - children suffer and myths are created - having more stats is other aim of the campaign then we know for sure.

For me another issue is that the presumtion of contact' <span class="line-through">created by lawyers</span> has started to overide what should be the main principal of the best interests of the child/ the welfare of the child'. There is obviously a high conflict of interests here and it needs to be addressed.

The fact is (for whatever reason) the RP tends to be female in the majority of cases and they are therefore more often than not the respondent, so there will be more females likley to `be taken' to court - you can't level up the playfield in this due to that facts for which there are stats.

The DC involved in these current cases are going to be adults one day (we hope), they will repeat actions if they continue to be seen as acceptable i.e. only coming into a child's life half way through, deciding as and when to be involved in a child's life. Isn't that how patterns are formed? the courts should be setting good examples about responsible parenting not rights of parents. The right of a child to have a relationship with each parent should not be used by lawyers to get parental rights increased.

betterthanever that post was, quite simply, Better than Ever!

May and Honey Thanks for showing your support for our campiagn. .

The bit that always confuses me is, why is it okay to assume that "fathers have those protective instincts too" but not okay to assume as per the glaringly obvious science that "mothers are the natural nurturers/carers?"

Double standards no?

Just a thought - has anyone got any experience of how other countries do it? It would be good to see if there are some systems where it works well.

Thanks

Marking my place.

This is something I've been pondering for some time. I get the impression the courts / social services think people must lie about abuse, or do something to trigger it. Not that the absent / kicked out partner is actually a total asshole who should never be allowed within a mile of their children.

After I'd got WA and the police involved my 'case' was referred to SS. They said they wouldn't take it any further as long as I didn't let XP back in the house. But you can bet your life the courts would have insisted on contact. Abusive parents should be written out of their kids lives until they're 18. Blood relative or not, a crap abusive parent, even if they were never abusive to the child, shouldn't be involved in their upbringing.

I am sorry to hear what you have been through meglet Where I work there is an agency involved in DV and they say just what you have said - SS say stay away and then the courts make the mother/DC have contact - result = DC into care in some instances. They pull thier hair out and can offer women little more than a shoulder to cry on. Joined up agency working is still not happening, they all have different agendas. I have much more faith in SS than a court and that is wrong.
In what other circumstances would a child be expected to go through what they are under our family court system? can you imagine if it was a teacher acused of half what a parent is proved to have done was still allowed to have unsupervised contact? it would be all over the press - difference is `secret family courts' to protect those making money out of DC's misery the DC. These childen will be the ones who end up sorting it out by speaking out when they are older - I know my DS will. I will NEVER let this go NEVER.

I've come to this thread late but in relation to taking cases to ECHR I think you will need to rethink your strategy. It isn't that simple. As someone said earlier first of all a court case or appeal must be heard through all the various courts in the UK. Then you need to demonstrate that a specific right of the European Convention has been violated.

The right you are thinking of doesn't exist under the Convention - issues relating to parental responsibility are usually dealt with under Article 8, the right to privacy and a family life. One person's human rights aren't absolute and often have to be weighed against the rights of others.

About 85% of applications to ECHR are never heard with most of them being inadmissible. The last time I checked there was a growing backlog of 7 years or so for those cases that are heard.

You are right STIDW we are looking to take the case elsewhere we may not be Europe soon anyhow..
Your point is a very good one relating one human right and it being weighed against the rights of others. This is something I feel very strongly about - how certain rights are being seen as top trumps when they never are. In my current situation - too complex to bore you with - a certain right is being cited whilst at the same time I feel a number of others are being infringed. In relation to the Children's Act in this country I feel the over riding principal is being attempted to be trumped by the use of rights, that infringe other rights anyway and should never over ride the main principal of the act which is the `best interests of the child'.

There needs to be a lot more attention paid to the damage emotional abuse has on children when considering forcing unsupervised contact, rather than just rushing cases through in the absence of physical evidence of abuse.

The Sturge and Glasers expert report actually addresses this. Its amazing and extremely balanced and certainly sites the effects of emotional abuse as being very important and states children turning into perpetrators as being one of the worse sequelaes of domestic abuse.

The high court have ordered the lower courts are to abide by it but they simply don't or will find excuses not too.

The whole system is a disgrace, but the fact is the measures to make it not that way are already in place however they are simply being ignored by judges :(

I agree with a certain amount of what lostdad is saying - that it's not just about gender, and that RPs can be the bad guys as well as NRPs. I strongly disagree with the point that there shouldn't be residential parents at all - those of us with a genuine fear relating to international abduction really really need the degree of protection we get from a residence order.

I like babyhammock's formulation:

the law is stacked against against a non abusive parent trying to protect their children from an abusive parent. There is a presumption of contact that often conflicts with the presumption that the welfare of the child is paramount.

That said, in defence of the courts and CAFCASS, my own experience is that the court has shown itself to be ready to cut back on contact based on a fear of harm. It took a long time and a lot of money to get here, but basically my ex has been pushing and pushing things in court and has come across as totally unreasonable, and my dd, who is 5, is being listened to. This is still only an interim arrangement, so we shall see.

I find it difficult to envisage what the perfect system would look like. Anyone want to outline a vision?

Truly horrific time in court today and I will be going to the court of appeal. However I know that this will be most likely refused and so I'm really gearing towards the supreme court which basically only deals with cases of constitutional importance.

My case being (and that mine is just one of a huge number) that the way that DV is dealt with in the family courts is fundamentally stacked against the victim and his/her need to protect the children involved.

I'm totally wiped out, but I think I need real tangible support with this as i don't think I'll get anywhere on my own. Anyone?
Thanks babyH x

Oh babyhammock, I'm sorry you're having such an appalling time. What kind of support do you need?

Are you in contact with any agencies that can support you? I would have thought there would be support for anyone bringing a test case at Court of Appeal/Supreme Court level - if not from an organisation, then maybe some barristers' chambers would act pro bono?

I don't want to ask you to disclose more than you want to, but can you say where the problem is: that your report of past DV is not believed? That DV to you is not seen as relevant to possible harm to the dcs? Is CAFCASS or the judge or something else the problem?

Thanks Nickname :)
I'll Pm you later and let you know what's happened. But yes a test case is an excellent way of presenting it.
Essentially I'm too intelligent to be a victim and he's too thick to be an abuser...but what the court has now done is draconian x

Really sorry to hear that. I'll be on the look-out for the pm (though it might be tomorrow before I can answer). Thinking of you.

Hi Everyone.

This thread has really given me hope! :-(

Feeling utterly demoralised by the stupid court system today!!!

Hi Snoopy
Is there anyway you could share what has happened to you?
xx

Ok. I have 2 kids 7 and 4. Their father has shown dangerous behaviour and neglectful behaviour towards children as well as extreme arrogance, lying, manipulation, dv and emotional abuse towards me. Currently seeing the children on Wednesdays after school and all day Saturdays. In court process the court professionals see 'no reason why overnight contact should not take place.' I am terrified of overnight contact due to past experience of this where children neglected. I have however zero 'proof' that any of the events actually took place so I am at a distinct disadvantage. Was always too scared of his anger to get anything recorded with police, ss although this would have been the intelligent thing to do at the time. The court hearing will be at the end of this month and I am very pessimistic at present :-( I have really very little support although I do make good use of the support I do have. I have found that most people including friends of mine have preferred to believe his 'version of the story' that I have tried to keep the children from him. It seems as though I don't have a voice at all and I have to watch my children being manipulated by him and him succeeding in convincing the court professionals (so far) that actually he's the good guy. It's dispiriting. It's disheartening. It's totally horrible.

Any help will be very gratefully received. Unfortunately I don't want to give lots of detail here.

I work in DV.

Daily I come across situations where mum has been told if she does not leave dad her children will become subject to care proceedings as she is failing to protect them,so she does then courts tell her she has to hand them over for unsupervised overnight contact often to be held in households where dad is also abusing his new partner obviously where she can take no steps to protect them as she is not there and the new partner has no interest in protecting them because they are not her children.

I am also overloaded with cases where mum is refusing to leave because whilst they are in a relationship she can manage interactions with the kids and make sure that the abuser is not in position to directly physically abuse the kids as he's never unsupervised with them and she knows if she leaves he will get it via a court.

and these fathers rights campaigners claim they 'always lose out' and 'women always have the upper hand' 'courts always side with the mother' etc etc etc etc. what aload of tosh. one of my exes actively emotionally abuses his dd, has been caught doing it by ss but doesnt care, he just went to court and got handed his contact back. makes me sick. i often wonder how many of these activists want fairness vs who just wants to push for all the cards to be in their hands.

that 'dad' who slit his kids necks was on his first day unsupervised apparently. wheres the lessons learnt there?

sock,that is why I stayed so long.

Susan.

Its why loads of women stay so long trying to avoid any attention from any agencies never leaving children unattended with dad never going to far away in the house taking over 100% of the kids care needs. Its often easier to protect the kids like that than it is to do so when you have parted company.

Afterwards kids are delivered straight into the abusive dads hands and mum is usually still abused directly on her doorstep at handover and indirectly in court.

The family courts are routinely used by abusers to continue to abuse and bully.