Shared residence order: 4 and 2 yr old DCs

[WishIWasRimaHorton]

I was in court this week for a residence case. The magistrates have ruled there must be shared residence. The chilren are DS (4) and DD (2).

The split of nights is 8 with me; 6 with their dad.

I am in the pits of despair, but this isn't about me. It's about the kids.

I have to try and make it work, even though I can see the anxiety and distress this causes them. In particular I have to accept that, every other week, they are with their dad for 4 nights (5 days). This means that they won't see me for 5 days in a row.

I am terrified of the impact of the constant upheaval and to-ing and fro-ing on the children. I am dreading my daughter's anxiety and distress whenever she separates from me or when she thinks I am leaving the room. I am dreading my son's face pressed up against the car window, tears streaming down it, when it is time to go to daddy's.

Can anyone tell me how I can make this work? I feel like I have failed the children by not being able to give them a permanent stable home when they are so little. If they were 12 and 14, or even 8 and 10, it wouldn't seem so bad. But they are tiny still. What will all this upheaval and uncertainty do to them?

do you live near their dad? surely when school is in the equation then this isnt best arrangement?

I can understand you being in the depths of despair, but not your children, who will be able to maintain a normal relationship with their father under a shared residence arrangement.

And you will get used to it.

Not surprised you're in pits of despair. This is what my ex wants and my solicitor has beien reassuring me that it would be unlikely to happen so I really feel for you.

What are the access arrangements at the moment? Are they used to having overnights with him? If so, how do they cope? How far away will they be? Do you have any evidence to suggest that they will struggle with this arrangement. If you really feel this is the wrong decision for the children could you try and contest it. It seems madness to me to grant a shared residence order for children of this age.

Sorry I can't give any advice but feel quite angry on your behalf!

You said they won't see you for 5 days... In previous arrangement how many days did they not see their dad for?
The new arrangement means they will see both parents more equally which means they will become much more comfortable with their dad than they would be through limited contact.
You need to sell this to them which means not showing iny distress or unhappiness about the new arrangement.

I understand why this will be hard for you but there is nothing you can do court decision so focus on all the positives of this

thanks. i live 0.2 miles from the school (which DS already attends). ex lives 10 miles away.

under the previous regime, the children were with me most of the time but with ex every other weekend (fri morning to sun night) and midweek one night. he also came to see them several nights a fortnight after work and before bed, and on my weekend for contact, we always went swimming.

so latemates, he never went more than a couple of days without seeing the children, and if he did, it was because he was away (he often goes away on the weekends he doesn't have the kids, so isn't back in time to see them). the offer was always there. and if DS talked to him on the phone and invited him over, it was always fine for him to come.

The split is still in your favour, do you not think their father misses them just as much.

More judges should do this, both parents should be treated as equals and your children will flourish as they will have great relationships with both their parents.

Sounds like you have a "good" working relationship then if you can take them swimming together! Sounds like you could make it work.

Good luck!

we jointly employ a nanny, and she works in both of our houses. i mostly work from home, which is great, as it means i can walk DS to school and the nanny gets to my house for about 9am. she takes DD out to morning activities and when she gets back at lunchtime, i can sit with DD while she eats her lunch. i can then go up to the school to collect DS and do another hour's work before teatime. i let the nanny go home at about 5pm. once the kids are in bed (7pm) i then do another 2 - 3 hours work.

when the kids are with ex, the nanny starts at 7.30am, which is when he leaves the house for work. he gets home between 6.30 and 6.40pm and the nanny finishes at 6.45pm. DD goes to bed at 6.45pm and DS at 7pm. so how much time is he spending with them each day?

so basically - i am sitting working from home 0.2 miles from the school. my son is being collected from school by the nanny and he and his sister are driven past the end of my drive (literally) on the way back to his father's house. where he and his sister will be looked after by the nanny for another 3 hours until their father gets home.

both children cry for me as they drive past my house. they know i am there. DS in particular gets angry because he knows daddy won't be home for hours, so why can't he see mummy.

but apparently - this is in the best interests of the children. REALLY?

mrscolour -no we don't have a good working relationship. the kids love swimming and because of their ages, i can't take them by myself. the only way they can go is if he comes along. that is why i do it.

the split looks as if it is in my favour but it's not that much more time. one of the extra 'nights' is a 6pm handover, so i get the 'night' but i only get 1 hour of time with them as they are in bed by 7pm.

he is arithmetic in his approach to all this. this 8 / 6 divide has been done so that daytime contact is roughly the same: it just looks as though i have more time but infact i don't.

i don't doubt he misses them. but he turns down opportunities to see them. if i were offered contact on a non-contact day, i would move heaven and earth to do it.

the children cry when they separate from me. the 4 yr old says that he doesn't want to go to daddy's house after school because daddy's not there. the 2 yr old won't go near daddy when i'm around. she clings to me.

and don't even get me started on the state of the house (former marital home and he still hasn't bought me out even though we have been separated for 9 months. it is still my home but he doesn't let me go in there). it reduces the nanny to tears when she goes over there. it is disgusting but unfortunately it isn't bad enough to be a welfare issue as there are no hyperdermic needles lying around. shit on the toilet seat, cat sick in the beds and on the carpets, food engrained in to the table and welded onto the hob, mouldy milk / food etc in the fridges - none of that is bad enough to be an issue as far as the courts are concerned.

Was just trying to be positive for you. Wish I could post something that would help.

my children will grow up living their lives out of carrier bags. ferrying things backwards and forwards.

i would NEVER stop them from seeing their father, if they wanted to see him. every time DS has asked if daddy can come over, i have invited him (daddy hasn't always been able to come).

i am not interested in restricting his access to the children. but while they are this little, surely, surely this regime doesn't make sense? shouldn't they be with a parent, if one is available? not a nanny? the magistrates actually said, when they made the ruling, that continuity of care was provided by the nanny as she worked in both homes. well - she does for now, but in any case, once DD is 3 (in a year's time), we won't need a nanny as DD will go to nursery 5 mornings a week at the same school as DS, and both can go to wrap-around at a local day nursery.

and then what will happen? no nanny providing continuity of care and wiping the shit off the toilet seat before DS uses it...

mrscolour -sorry. appreciate you trying to help.

i know that shared residence is the thing currently. and i'm sure in many cases it is a great answer. but for 2 little kids like this?

the court didn't look at the children's circumstances. it was done based on submissions only. no CAFCASS. no evidence given. just my submission and ex's submission. and it was heard in 30 mins and the decision was made in 10 mins after that.

Why no CAFCASS? I understand there's research out there suggesting that shared care is not good for young children. If you really really feel this is not right then you might have to fight. New solicitor might be in order maybe.

mrscolour no CAFCASS because no welfare issues. i argued state of house etc, but in spite of the squalor it's not bad enough. and the kids are fed and watered (altho their teeth are never brushed, and DD's blonde hair is stuck to her snot and her face is filthy etc etc). but it's not bad enough.

i am going to look at an appeal. i have a friend who is a psychologist who works with young people and i have asked her for advice. even if i don't appeal, i want to know how to help the kids through this and how to identify when things may be going wrong for them.

i just want the best for my kids, as does ex no doubt. but with every fibre of my being i feel that this is wrong for them right now.

i too have read research from the Family Justice Council about the impact of shared residence on children:

""The child mental health specialist member of the Children in Families Committee expressed a very firm view, based on her clinical experience, that shared residence orders are rarely in the best interests of children but are much more about meeting the needs and interests of their parents.

Children need a settled and stable home. They need routine and to know where their possessions are and where they will sleep at night. Shared residence orders can often complicate matters with children moving between the different homes in a way that is unsettling and difficult for the child. This undermines the child?s stability, to the detriment of the child.

Having two homes can cause confusion and introduce tensions into children?s lives making them feel that they must spend an equal portion of time with each parent otherwise they will hurt one of their parents and be seen as siding with the other. A shared residence order may have the unintended consequence of putting an additional burden of responsibility and anxiety) "

I thought you could ask for a CAFCASS report even if there are no welfare issues. I haven't been through it and I'm only going on advice I've had from my solicitor and from my brother who is a social worker.

Having recently experienced an initial hearing for contact where CAFCASS were instructed to be involved with absolutely no welfare issues whatsoever! Straight forward, can't decide on contact, won't agree to mediation, I find that bizarre! What a shame there is so many discrepancies in the Family Court system.

we went to medation with CAFCASS at our initial hearing. CAFCASS officer ruled there would be no report. i wasn't given the option to say i wanted one.

the clerk was not at all interested in our case on thursday. he told my solicitor that we should both just grow up and sort it out between us. ex's barrister ended up swearing at him as he was adamant he wanted to adjourn our case, as he had far more pressing things to do.

i was not asked for evidence. the letter i had from the HV describing E's anxieties and distress and recommending that she needed a stable base while she was so young was dismissed as she is not an 'expert witness'.

it was all done, based on the paperwork submitted. which is precisely why i did not want to go to court. i didn't want 3 people deciding the fate of my children based on whose essay sounded the best. and that is what has just happened.

and i am expected to accept it and move on - because it is best for my children. i have to live this out every day, and more than that, they have to live it out, with all the to-ing and fro-ing and all the crying and stress. because apparently someone can decide in half an hour what is best for my children.

There is mountains of research that states that shared care is the best for children. And that a father can provide equivalent care to a mother. The only thing a father can not do is breast feed. I will find the research when I have time for everyone to have a read.
I truly believe shared care/residency should be the norm not the exception.

The children can have belongs at both homes which will not result in having to cart everything back and foreword.

Maybe he never went more than a couple of days but seeing children in other parents homes in far from ideal and I am not surprised has hindered their relationship. As you say the youngest will not leave your side if you are there. This will prevent their relationship from developing. They are also going to pick up on your feelings on this.

IF the house is as bad as you state then you can tell him your concerns and if it continues you can report to SS

I have to say latemates that i am afraid i disagree with you. I was a child who was "shared" between her parents and it was horrible. Even having stuff at both houses made no difference. I craved having 1 home from about 8/9! As did my brother.

There is (in my opinion) a vast difference between having 2 parents involved and sharing your life by working together co-operatively and shared care.

OP. I think the best you can do is try and foster a decent relationship with you ex. See how the kids go. Things might get more flexible over time. i.e. they come to you for tea instead of the nanny and your ex picks them up after work or you go to his house and look after them there.
If it doesnt and if the DCs appear to be struggling, you can always go back to court to request a different split. You would need proof they were struggling though. Maybe a counseller? school reporting problems, etc

latemates - i have photos of the house. it really is as bad as i say.

the nanny tells me that the children cry for me when they are their father's house. that DD cries for me all day when she is out of the house at activities.

i would NEVER stand in the way of their relationship with their father. i know that they stand the best chance of a normal emotional development if he shares their care, which i am happy for him to do. but really - is this the best way for it to be achieved?

and yes, they do have belongings in both homes. but there is only one blankie for DD (we have many - there is only 1 that will do); one monkey for DS; one set of washable nappies for DD; one school bag, one book bag. all of these things HAVE to go backwards and forwards at each handover. shoes / trainers all have to go backwards and forwards, as do coats. buggy. it's a military operation each time there is a handover. things get forgotten and that creates upset.

i read something written by someone who had been brought up in shared residence. she said that when she got to university and had her own bedroom and no-one was making her leave it every few days to go to a different house, she was overwhelmed. for the first time in her life she had a base which was hers and she didn't need to pack her life into carrier bags. i cried when i read that. that is what my children are being consigned to for the rest of their childhoods.

Bster84
It shouldn't be about being shared between the parents. And you must have felt like a belonging by the way you say it. It's about the child getting to see significant amounts of both their parents and knowing that both places are their home. I find your view interesting as it contradicts what many children crave.

How long did you live at both homes for? And when you say crave 1 home do you mean live with one parent and not see the other? Did you want to live with one parent and spend weekends with the other? Wouldn't have made a difference which parent/home it was?

Do you see both parents now?

latemates - i'm not doubting that men can parent as well as women. i'm sure there are many men out there who are far better at parenting than i am. and i'm not saying my ex is a bad father. what i'm saying is that, when the kids are with 'him' during the week, he's not there. they hate that. they cry for me because he's not there.

bster84 - he will never allow me to have the kids here or to pick them up from school on 'his' contact day. i asked him if i could do this, and he said that i was trying to undermine him. he says that the children's time is based around the home. therefore, if it is his day, they will be at his house, even if he's not there. and even if i am at my house and they could see me. it's either a 'his house name'-based day, or a 'my house number'- based day. bums on seats is what i call it. my child in my house being looked after by a nanny. which is why he has very sneakily ensured that it looks as though i have 2 extra contact days on the schedule, whereas all i get is an hour in the evening before bed. he gets the daytime -i get the overnight.

Then I suggest you report and send the photos to SS....