Shared residence order: 4 and 2 yr old DCs

[WishIWasRimaHorton]

I was in court this week for a residence case. The magistrates have ruled there must be shared residence. The chilren are DS (4) and DD (2).

The split of nights is 8 with me; 6 with their dad.

I am in the pits of despair, but this isn't about me. It's about the kids.

I have to try and make it work, even though I can see the anxiety and distress this causes them. In particular I have to accept that, every other week, they are with their dad for 4 nights (5 days). This means that they won't see me for 5 days in a row.

I am terrified of the impact of the constant upheaval and to-ing and fro-ing on the children. I am dreading my daughter's anxiety and distress whenever she separates from me or when she thinks I am leaving the room. I am dreading my son's face pressed up against the car window, tears streaming down it, when it is time to go to daddy's.

Can anyone tell me how I can make this work? I feel like I have failed the children by not being able to give them a permanent stable home when they are so little. If they were 12 and 14, or even 8 and 10, it wouldn't seem so bad. But they are tiny still. What will all this upheaval and uncertainty do to them?

Having a Nanny look after kids when there is a perfectly good parent around is IMO just ridiculous.

Irrelevant whether parent is male or female.

Just the same as some NRP's want to dump their kids on grandparents or the new partner for lengthy parents just so the kids aren't with the other parent.

Just plain stupid and not beneficial for the child.

lengthy "periods" not "parents". Oops.

OP - it sounds distressing for you and your children. I can understand that fathers want to see their children just as much as mothers do - but like you say, it's not like he's actually there on the weekdays that they're at his home and if you're available it does seem unfair to your DCs that you can't see them - or rather that they can't see you.

My ex and I are about to move out of our shared home into separate accommodation and he has just announced that he wants equal time with our DS (aged 3). I understand that he wants to spend as much time with him as possible BUT like you I suspect that this is more about control and getting one over on me rather than being in DS's best interests. I have done the majority of parenting so far and I worry about how well my ex would actually cope with DS on his own for lengths of time. DS is much closer to me no doubt because of his experiences with both of us so far. The longest I have ever spent away from him was three nights once when ex was with DS's grandparents. My ex has spent longer than this away on holiday without any concerns about missing DS or about using up holiday that would mean he would have less time to spend with DS so I don't believe he feels the same way.

The thought of every other week not seeing him for 5 nights is heart breaking and I'm worried about how DS would cope without seeing me for such long stretches. I really don't think it would be in his best interests - and I am really trying to think about those rather than mine.

I think if parents share parenting equally when they're living together then a 50/50 split would be understandable, but if one parent does 90% of the parenting and the other one chooses not to be so involved, how is it in the child's best interests to share care this way when the parents split up?

i have decided not to appeal. i think i will just get ripped to shreds, and what makes sense for my kids in my situation is clearly not what is in 'their interests' according to the courts.

so i have agreed with work to go down to 3 days, so i only need 1 day a fortnight childcare. i shall stop paying a grand a month for a nanny who is only there really so ex can work later than normal childcare is available. i don't need her, and he will have to sort his own childcare out now.

and i then won't need to hear what goes on his house when i'm not there. this morning she was in tears because DS had been so distressed last weds night over at ex's house. ex had come home and told DS he had a present for him. DS cried when he saw it was a t-shirt and said he wanted a toy. Ex started shouting, DS had ended up on the naughty step, crying and screaming for 40 mins. (why did ex not send nanny home at this point FGS?). he threatened 5 times to send him to bed unless he stopped crying but didn't follow thru. in the end he asked DS to apologise and he said he would if ex took his shoes off (?!). so ex did and then said 'how about some chocolate cake now?'. the nanny was upset by it all. so at least i won't hear about what goes on over there.

oh and i just went to the GP to ask for some help, and she told me to grow up, stop feeling sorry for myself and deal with it. gee thanks. just as well i have the kids today otherwise i may really have lost the plot.

have sent the nanny home and am now supervising DD sticking stickers all over herself. great therapy for a bleeding heart...

doesnt sound like your ex has the patience.... it is hard to hear this is how the atmosphere is in his house.... but as the dc get older they will be able to express their views more clearly.

maybe find a postiive parenting course to go on with your ex(not saying you need to go on it but if you say you are going too he cannot object?)

malinkey - sorry to hear you are going thru this also. i invested way more time and energy into the kids when i was with ex than he ever did. to the point where DS cried if daddy tried to take him to bed, because he only wanted mummy. unfortunately that counts for nothing when it comes to agreeing contact going forwards. and i do understand that separation changes things. it just seems very unfair. to me. but not to ex (or anyone else on the other side of the 'fence').

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Unbelievable that your GP actually said that. I would complain to the practice manager if I were you and ask to see a different GP. That is just not helpful. Can you get some counselling to help you cope with this difficult situation?

I think the decision not to appeal is probably the right one. For now. Bide your time, live with the court's decision for a while (say 6 months) and see what happens, both in terms of ex's ability to manage without the nanny (should he choose to do so) and in terms of how the children handle the new arrangement. If their behaviour is affected (reports from school/nursery) and they seem distressed at having to spend periods of time at daddy's house then you may have grounds for the courts to consider apportioning their care differently.

i suspect that she has no kids. there was not a shred of sympathy in her voice. if she were a mother, she could at least empathise with what i am going through, even if she thought it was the right decision for the kids. logically she is probably right - what am i making all this fuss about? but these are my children and with every fibre of my being i feel that this arrangement is wrong for them.

Redhen....
The children's relationship with a grandparent is highly important.... They and the grandparents get a lot out of it. So I think their are many advantages to a parent leaving their child/children in the capable care of the grandparents for a evening or night. I would not class this as dumping the children. Interestingly you linked the dumping to being by NRP does that mean it is ok if the RP gets a grandparent to care for their child?

Latemates....Redhen said for lengthy periods which suggests longer than an evening or a night.

i had an example over christmas of ex wanting to 'dump' the kids on someone else rather than get me to help out. it was the day after boxing day and i called to speak to the kids. ex said that there had been a flood in the house as the pipes had burst. he said they were going to be doing a trip to B&Q and then the kids had better behave themselves as he was spending the day in the loft. (Neither he nor i have family anywhere near us whom we can call on in emergencies, by the way).

i said - if it would be easier, i can come over and keep the kids occupied or take them out for a few hours. he said 'no, it's ok. i'll drop them at XXX's house' (a neighbour). this neighbour smokes like a trooper in her house. i always hated going there because of the smoke in the house. but he would leave his kids at her house for several hours while he did DIY rather than have me have 'extra' access on 'his day'. i cried all afternoon about that one...

If you feel you want to appeal then you shouldn't be put off by what people have said on here. People who are pro shared residence and pro father's rights seem to have a very strong voice on here but no-one knows your children and your circumstances like you do. Perhaps you need to seek proper legal advice from a different solicitor and find out what can be done. As someone else said, you might not be able to reverse the shared residence order but you might be able to change the number of days you each have. CAFCASS should be involved and maybe even your health visitor or someone else (neighbour maybe or even the nanny - they can do it anonymously) could contact social services and let them decide whether the state of the house constitutes neglect.

I obviously don't know your situation like you do but it does seem that you have been bullied by your ex into this agreement and his motives appear to be more about you not seeing the kids rather than thinking about the best interests of the child. How did he end up keeping the house? Sounds like he's very controlling. Mother's often get accused of using the children to get back at their exes and it seems that this is what he is doing.

Also, I have thought, that perhaps because you were always generous about letting him see them on your days and you went swimming together maybe this made it look like things were amicable between you.

I have been thinking about you and hope you can stay strong.

Have you tried to see it from his point of view, having them round the neighbour while you do DIY is great, mehh appart from the smoking ... I don't like people smoking near my children. However, if their at the neighbours you can pop round see how your kids are going on, or if the kids really need to they can just ask the neighbour to get you.

Your alternative is great for you as you get to spend more time with your kids, but for you Ex it's possibly so much more stressful, if he just feels like stopping DIY he's going to find it a lot more difficult and frosty to just see the kids. He also doesn't have to deal with any additional 'why does mummy have to leave' when he has done his DIY and can have the kids.

I really think you need to find some friends/family to talk about how you feel, I'm not simply talking about people who you can whip into a frenzy of sympathy for yourself and indignation towards your ex.

Well that's my view as an evil male NRP (burn-him burn-him)

whiteandnerdy - we had an 'agreement' when we separated that we wouldn't get anyone else to look after the children if we needed cover and the other parent was around. this was meant to stop either of us using the nanny to put the kids to bed if we were working late when the kids could have been with the other parent. the only person ever to invoke this part of the agreement was me, when i handed the kids over to him one weekend which was 'my contact' because i was singing in a concert in the evening and wouldn't have been able to put the kids to bed. my parents were around so could have done it, but i still handed the kids over to him.

he has never followed this part of the agreement. at christmas, it was mainly the smoking bit of the neighbour that got me, as he knows how much it bothers me. if it had been the neighbour with kids, that would have been fine, as they would all have had fun. but at this particular neighbour's house - god no. it was like a huge insult. i would rather have my kids looked after by an old hag who smokes all day long than hand them over to you.

and mrscolour - thanks for your concern. i really think appealing is not worth it. i have totally lost faith in the process of the legal system. the way our case was heard and the lack of interest in the details was astounding. i cannot bear to subject myself and my children to that again when really - what is the point? what do i really want? i am not going to get the shared residence thing overturned. at best i may get an extra night here or there, but that's not going to make that much difference. i do just have to live with it. and i have to make it work as best as i can for the children when they are with me. as so many people have pointed out, it is none of my business what ex does with the kids when he has them. he could leave them in the care of the old hag down the lane and i wouldn't be able to have any say in it.

oh and controlling - yes, definitely. very. and i left because he told me that he would never leave the marital home. and i was so so desperate to go by that stage. he also told me that he would take me to court and fight me for the children, and win. and i was terrified of that. with good reason, it seems...

It seems to me that you are still allowing him to have far too much control. He is supposed to have bought you out but has shown no signs of doing so. Elsewhere (on another forum) you have stated that through the legal process you have gone through, you discovered that he lied to you throughout your marriage about the amount of money he earned and had available. You were paying equal contributions to almost everything - in fact you were paying out more than him - despite earning considerably less.

Stop letting him get away with everything and demand what is rightfully yours. Start things moving on the house situation. You may not be able to change the decision the courts have made but you need to regain some control of other aspects of your life. At the moment you are letting this man walk all over you - much as he presumably did while you were married, as is often the case with bullies - and you are not even living under the same roof as him. He can't use withholding access to the children to hurt you because there is now a court ruling in place which gives you shared access so now's the time to start making a stand. You've dropped your work back to 3 days a week and you are in a rented property. You can't move forward with buying another property because you still have a mortgage with your ex (even if in name only). This is not on. I think the balance of power here clearly needs to change and only you can make that happen. Perhaps get yourself another solicitor and re-examine what you are able to do from here.

i think the agreement was unworkable given the hostility/poor relationship between you both and his ability to control the situation. also more confusing for kids if you going round to each other's houses to put kids to bed. they ahve to get used to two separately run homes, that is reality

his house - he (or his chosen carer) puts them to bed
your house - you or your chosen carer puts them to bed .

and i can see WaN point about the DIY bit. my exP would also offer to babysit etc on "my" days but i didnt want him interfering in my life - ie extra points for potentially stressful handovers integrated into my time - so ican see that POV.

is best maybe to accept the situation for now and not get involved on "his" days - similarly for him not to be invovled on your days . if kids are not sure if you may or may not be appearing in his days then they not going to settle into this new regime. also the new regime actually gives you time to move forward, get a hobby or new friends etc .

Latemates,

Relationships with grandparents is very important. But again, it shouldn't just be for babysitting to avoid the child being with the other parent.

If one parent wants the children to be with him/her, then why send the children to a grandparents for hours on end especially if they are reluctant to have the children?

It doesn't matter which parent "dumps" the children on anyone, NRP or PWC, when it's done to deliberately stop the other parent from being with the children.

cestlavielife - i am a very long way from wanting a hobby or friends. a very very long way.

i can see that wishiwas - but for your own sake and to avoid getting into a clinical depression, you do need to look after yourself in whatever way suits you.

this may mean doing something for you when Dc not there.... deciding not to wallow etc. so that you are a happy mum when they come back to you.

having a controlling ex - is enough to send anyone into despair i agree; not having your dc - well it hurts - but they will be coming back to you and you need to find a way to ensure you lviing your life when they not there, so that you have a happy life despite the circumstances. the dc will grow up after all and you dont want to look back and see only misery all around.

counselling, therapy espec CBT approach , divorce workshops - eg www.drw.org.uk can all help

it is early days for this new regime but you have no choice, court has decided and you have to live with it for now. (my therapist pointed this out to me - no point railing about what has been taken out of your hands...and wishing for it to fail would in some ways be bad for DC.... however, no harm in waiting to see if the arangements could be tweaked/reviewed later on )

the stronger you are emotionally, the better you will be able to go back to court in six months and say look; this isnt working, this would be a better arrangement for the DC etc...

or you might find actually it all works out better than you thought and somehow settles down....

thanks cestlavielife. i know i have to come to terms with it. but we have been separated for 9 months and the grief every time the kids are not with me is too much to bear. it doesn't matter if it is a night or a week, the grief is the same. when i have the kids, everything is wonderful and i make grand plans for how to deal with things (as i am doing now). the moment they are gone, i just want to kill myself and can't face living the rest of their childhoods like this. i know the problem is in my head but it's getting no easier.

i have a counselling session tonight. according to my GP that won't help as i just have to accept where i am. but i cannot.

Good luck with the counselling. Your GP sounds like a waste of space!

OMG I have read your posts on three threads now and I feel for you.

It's all very well for some to bang on about father's rights and of course father's have rights (I am very close to someone who was denied access to his kids and have seen the sad fallout of that so am in now way anti-father/men) but imo and will prob get flamed for this - very young children need their mum more than their dad.

And as you said when together you did more of the care.

Also your ex does not sound particularly attuned to the needs of young children from what you have said eg expecting four year old to sleep in tent on his own and is most likely using access to them to score points against you and cause you pain because he is a bully.

And the loft thing is ludicrous. It was an emergency granted but when you have young kids generally you can't get on with things like painting and decorating or anything much as they need constant supervision and attention.

It doesn't help you I know but am so pleased that my exh didn't want 50-50 - in fact I have to badger hiim to see them more than he does.

I want you to know that you have alot of support on here so please stay strong and maybe the situation can be reviewed in six months.