My 11 year old daughter

[wirral]

has decided, since last October, that she wanted to live with her Dad, his girlfriend and her daughter.

I hijacked a previous thread and got such good advice that I thought I'd attempt my own.

I've been so sad since daughter left but am so ashamed that I have failed as a Mum that I haven't asked for advice before.

Daughter came and stayed this weekend. She spent the majority of time surfing internet and emsillng her Dad about which new mobile phone he is going to buy her (blackberry)

Today I tried to get her to do her homework. She needed to write a report on a bag. She and her Dad had decided to write about a designer bag that his girlfriend had bought her (a Kipling??) I don't know about designer bags. I offered to help her but she told me I couldn't as I don't know bag. I suggested she phone her Dad to help her but she refused. She then got angry with me and started being nasty. I phoned her Dad and asked him to come and pick her up. He did.

I am just so lost. Everything that I do is wrong. So sad

that's not ironic ataaalllll !?!?

ooops!.. last message belonged on previous page, under Hunniemummie's last.. it doesn't make sense under yours pickgo :)

Who is Hunniemummie?

you.. sorry I made a mistake

We all do, Shriek

hmm.. like I said.. ironic

Ok MummieHunnie, here goes. I believe you think that I am manipulative both on this thread and in real life. I can't read your comments as they have been deleted. I would like to explain the whole situation and see if you change your opinion, I obviously realise that you may not.

My ex and I were married for 7 years. Going out for about 15. He works for the Emergency Services and - this is just my opinion - I have found that he gained understanding from people who worked in the same "industry".

When we had our daughter I worked 3 days a week around his shift pattern. This meant that we never had to employ a childminder etc - and may go some way to explaining daughter walking home on her own?? Incidentally I asked a close friend her opinion tonight and she agreed that daughter actually enjoyed this independence.

He left me and I was very hurt despite understanding that our life was not perfect.I knew that he loved his daughter and did worry that this was not going to be an easy adjustment. As I predicted he wanted to see daughter EVERY time he was off work - an admirable sentiment but very difficult to establish any type of routine and I think that this is why we have a problem now. Daughter never went to her Dad's every Wed and alternate weekends. By same token I could never organise childminders etc as weeks he could pick up some days and next week other days - does that make sense ?

Last year his girlfriend moved in with him and occasionally her daughter stays as well - I do not have a problem with girlfriend and have even taken my daughter and hers sledging. Our daughter for some reason was really upset when girlfriend was present on Christmas day at Ex husband's house.

She became reluctant to see her Dad. At this stage I was working away from home but gave up this role as I felt that she needed me. At no stage did this situation sit well with me and I spent a couple of weekends having to go bowling or cooking meal to have with Ex husband so that he could spend time with daughter.

Last Summer daughter and I went to Egypt. The advantage of working fulltime I hoped would be that daughter would be able to have some great experiences. I think we had a good time - camels, snorkelling etc.

Throughout the years daughter has always threatened me with wanting to live with her Dad when I disciplined her.

One night I came home from work and was really rushed as we were going to look round Senior schools (with her Dad). I wasn't too sure how to get to school so whilst I attempted to google it I suggested that daughter practiced her spellings. She refused and became really offensive - with hindsight I didn't react well. I knew that I could rearrange for us both to look round school so I phoned her Dad and explained the problem and suggested that we didn't go to the open night. He didn't support me and told me that I was being unreasonable. A combination of stress and temper took over. Daughter demanded to go to her Dad's (as normal) so I took her (not as normal). I just thought I was calling her bluff. And here we are 6 months later.

Now, I don't think for one minute that I have told the "whole" story but that isn't because I am trying to be manipulative.

Thanks again. Despite everything, I do wish I had posted this at the time. I just find it so hard to admit to

Wirral, I have read your post, it is .

Erm is that a good sad face or am I still manipulative and possibly lying? I ask in trepidation as I really don't know. I've tried to tell it as honestly as I ca

Wirral, it is what it is, it is a very sad situation that you have posted about.

I posted earlier and someone had the post reported and it was decided to be deleted by mnhq, I imagine that I was making a personal attack with my comments according to mnhq.

I am quite straight talking and like to encourage people to find a way to help themselves, rather than offering short term solutions of help in life.

I do know I never accused you of lying, I don't want to repeat other things as I don't want to be making personal attacks on people.

Good for you, for opening up about the situation, I hope that you find the answers you want from posters.

Ok - I'm not sure that has answered my question but I guess will leave it at that. I suspect you said that you felt that I was being manipulative on this thread and also in real life. I apologise if you didn't.

I have tried to tell it how it is. In my defence you didn't ask me many questions but just assumed. I hope, in some way, I may have countered your queries?

The post may have been deleted, also as I mentioned another mn poster, so if it was not you that reported it for a personal attack, then it may be because of that comment about another poster and the people they have had issues with her that I discussed, maybe that was why my post was deleted, only the person who reported it knows really.

Wirral, I would like to discuss this with you further, and ask you further questions, I am hesitant due to the response earlier and deleted posts, and I don't want to be party to hurting someone in a bad way, I think sometimes that straight talking is needed in life, I used to be a fluffy person, I am not anymore, and if it is fluffy you want there are plenty of other posters on here that can offer you that, it is not what you will get from me.

Ah - I am starting to understand. I was posting sporadically from work today and only saw the first of your posts that was deleted.I can assure you that I did not report you. I don't know how to and certainly wasn't that "offended" by you. I was - as seen by this thread - more concerned with explaining to you and trying to see if indeed I was being manipulative.

I will accept any advice going. I KNOW I am not perfect but I need help as to how to rectify this situation if I can

Wirral, none of us are perfect, we are all muddling along as best as we can

One thing I did say, I am trying to not make anything be deemed as a personal attack here, is that I thought that either your ex is not the ok guy you have told us or you were holding stuff back, as something is not sitting right with all that has happened, is there some more information that you think is relevant that needs to be shared? The more you share the more people can see through it all, I can often see others issues and not see my own and I am sure the same can be said for others.

I have a child the same sort of age and one a little older, I know what they can be like, this parenting lark is not easy and as they get to teens they get worse, lovely girls become so very different in a matter of months, due to hormones and general growing up and becoming independant.

With the situation you find youself in, I would definatly recomend that you go and have some counselling and I know you don't like it when I suggested it earlier, a parenting course for teens will probably be helpfull, they are so very different to parent. I also wonder if family therapy would be beneficial for you and dd and possibly your ex also?

I got a bit of a shock the other day, as it is about four years since my ex and I split and my dd around the age of yours came out with she thought it was her fault he left, this is despite me telling the kids many times it was not their fault. Children can take on all kids of things and not sure it, and that was from my very vocal child!!!

I have some other thoughts I would like to share with you, I will wait and see if this post gets delted before I share any more.

You echo what one of my friends says. She doesn't think my ex is as nice as I think he is.

I do admire him though. He has always made it plain that he left ME and not his daughter and he has never allowed himself to not be involved in her life. I honestly do admire him as I am so tempted sometimes to back off and let what will be, be. I am not sure that the constant battle for daughter's affection does her any good.

If I have one criticism of him, he certainly never acknowledges the contribution or sacrifices I have made for our daughter. I am explaining this badly but I genuinely think he thinks daughter will be happy with him and not seeing me - whereas I would always acknowledge she needs us both

His shift work has always been the "deal breaker" and it doesn't matter how I try to explain it he expects me (and daughter) to fit around his work., Does this make more sense about the walking home from school on own? It was difficult if not impossible to employ someone who would fit in with irregular days. It would have meant employing someone for the week and "wasting" 3 days. But money was not the issue, it was more that we had never used a childminder

I could detail specific errors of judgement that he has made but that would be unfair as I am not blameless and have made mistakes as well

The biggest clue Wirral, which I mentioned up thread was that he was blaming you for the situation with your dd, that was an alarm bell to me.

Wirral, if you go through this now, you may be able to unpick it to work on in therapy, and get some things moving with your dd.

You have nothing to loose, post the good and bad about you both, no one knows who you are.

Well if I am honest, I suspect both ex and myself should have had parenting course from the word go!

I remember my ex being on nights in work and I had to barricade myself in our bedroom whilst our daughter wrecked the house. I know that sounds terrible - but I never knew how to cope with the tantrums. I could physically restrain her but that meant bruises. I could lock her in her room but she would trash the room etc.

We were rubbish at setting boundaries.

When ex left our daughter became involved in everything I did. My friends loved her and she loved seeing them too. I got very little (absolutely no) time to myself.

It has never occured to me to "find" a boyfriend as I thought she and I were having such a good time.

Too much pressure on her to grow up perhaps?

So those are my faults as I see them.

My ex has always sided with daughter against me. If she complains about me, he agrees.

He tends to buy the expensive gifts and isn't very strict about school (you will gather, I am very strict about school)

The worst thing that I can level against him is that he let her stay in a single bed with a 13 year old boy early last year. When I tried to explain that this wasn't a fab decision he accused me of being a terrible person for thinking badly of the boy - I didn't. It scared me that I couldn't make him understand how bad I thought this decision was.

I can't understand why he is so bitter towards me when he left me!

Tell me more about your ex.

Ok. We met in our early 20s. I'd just moved back home from living in London and started working for Civil Service. He was a car mechanic. He wasn't as well educated as me but he wasn't stupid (I don't mean that to sound snobby)

Eventually , he became a paramedic (I think he would admit with my help). However since then he has studied very hard - he is good at switching off- and worked his way up to a high scale within the ambulance service.

I think he's quiet but "blossomed" when he found friends in the ambulance service. I would place a bet that ALL his friends come from his work environment.

We were mismatched in terms of things we liked doing but he seemed happy to follow my lead - I shouldn't speculate but I think he follows similar pattern with his girlfriend

My parents and I have always holidayed in Portugal. Eventually he and I bought an apartment there - he got it as part of divorce settlement.

I would say he is more "money orientated" than me. He tends to like items, I like experiences.

When he left he spent weeks parked near house so that he could see his daughter. One of the Mums from school found him sobbing outside her house in his car with daughter and had to take him into her house for a cup of tea to calm him down.

I suspect that leaving home was an incredibly hard decision for him and I admire his determination

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation Wirral. You mention that your exhusband's partner has her own dd. what age is she? Maybe your dd enjoys living with a sibling and that goes some way to explaining why she wants to live with her father?
Just a thought. If so is there any chance at all that you could include the other girl in any outings?

Did he tell you why he wanted to leave and divorce?

Why do you think he is blaming you that things have gone wrong with your dd?

Can you tell us how his bitterness against you came out of him towards you when he left?

crystalglasses, yes the same thing has occured to me too. I wonder if ex can provide the "family" that I can't. Girlfriend's daughter is 8 - 3 years younger than our daughter. I have included her in our outings but I don't really think this is the answer as I have always encouraged daughter to invite friends along if she wanted.

Ex lives on a "modern" housing estate whereas I live in old fashioned terraced house. Daughter has friends living next door at his house but I have alway encouraged daughter to invite them back home when she wanted to.

It is funny as I type that as I am reminded that daughter thinks Dad's house is fashionable as it's modern whereas ours is old fashioned as it's old! Good grief!

Well he never really discussed his reasons for leaving. We went on holiday in the Summer and were having a good time (honestly!) It would take too long to describe the whole event but he was very unlucky one night as I caught him phoning a woman from work. I was so shocked and spelt it out to him what he would be losing and we kind of got back on track - he said it was just a friendship that had got out of hand.

That Christmas he was very remote - noticably. We went to Center Parcs in Jan and didn't really bond. He left one night in Feb. Never talked about it but with hindsight the signs were all there. A couple of weeks after he left he sent me a text saying "the offer's still on for tonight if you fancy?" followed by lots of kisses - text plainly not meant for me

His bitterness has always revolved around the contact arrangements with our daughter. He feels that I have stopped or prevented him seeing her. I don't think that I have, I just don't seem to be able to make him understand that daughter would cope best with a regular routine (and so would I!)

Recently he has said that the contact arrangements have never worked. This was a real surprise as I thought we were doing ok.

I think he forgets that daughter was "awkward" before he left and blames me for her stubborness etc. I read something about counselling once that said you should start conversations with something positive about your ex. I could do this but I have never heard him say one positive thing about me since he left.

It reminds me of my dd1 who thought her friend's house was very grand because they had fireplaces and a (BHS)chandelier even though to any adult our house would seem far superior.

Is there any way fo getting your dd to open up to you about what she really thinks of the situation or how she would like things to be. If you ever get the opportunity for a girly chat with her maybe you could talk about your own childhood and what you liked about it and what you wished had been different. You wouldn't need to put any pressure on her by asking for her views but it might help her to see you as a human being as well as her mother. If you had any siblings you could tell her about the things you got up to and how you dealt with your own parents - perhaps ask her what she would have done in similar situations - and always praise her for her insights so she feels that you value her opinion, and hold your tongue if you disagree. Adolescents are so sensitive to criticism so choose your battles carefully.
I can tell that you are doing your best to be a good parent and nobody has walked in your shoes.

wirral, when I was in primary school I used to o and play with the latch key kids whose parents were still at work. I used to wonder why my mother always had to be at home and why I wasn't trusted to have my own key or be home myself! I would have loved it. Those latch key kids matured quicker and were and still are more confident people because of it.

You are doing your best for your dd, you work to provide her with the necessities of life and more than that you have given her some wonderful life experiences with the trip to Egypt.

My dts don't see x-dh, he is not ok, far from it and has the maturity level of an infant. It is tragic for them but I support them as best I can.

I don't know what to say, your situation would completely end me, if one day they decided to go and live with him after everything he put us through. I just hope you stay strong, ignore the critics, it is so easy when you don't have to live it. You will get through this and your dd will realise she needs her mum. I can't say any more other than I wish you so well, your x-dh needs to understand you are important to dd and there has to be consistency.