My 11 year old daughter

[wirral]

has decided, since last October, that she wanted to live with her Dad, his girlfriend and her daughter.

I hijacked a previous thread and got such good advice that I thought I'd attempt my own.

I've been so sad since daughter left but am so ashamed that I have failed as a Mum that I haven't asked for advice before.

Daughter came and stayed this weekend. She spent the majority of time surfing internet and emsillng her Dad about which new mobile phone he is going to buy her (blackberry)

Today I tried to get her to do her homework. She needed to write a report on a bag. She and her Dad had decided to write about a designer bag that his girlfriend had bought her (a Kipling??) I don't know about designer bags. I offered to help her but she told me I couldn't as I don't know bag. I suggested she phone her Dad to help her but she refused. She then got angry with me and started being nasty. I phoned her Dad and asked him to come and pick her up. He did.

I am just so lost. Everything that I do is wrong. So sad

No White and Nerdy, there was no argument. I was slightly confused as to why daughter had been sent to me with homework that had obviously already been discussed and decided upon. I was unable to and indeed not allowed to help daughter who then got herself in an incredibly bad mood with me (and herself). I offered to help but was told that I couldn't. I suggested she phoned her dad and got help over the phone but she refused. I then called her Dad as her language to me was becoming offensive.

I doubt homework was completed at all but she was rewarded by a day off school and shopping for clothes

If you believe him to be an 'ok' guy actually; someone that can be reasonable and responsible about it; then a good course of action would be to discuss all this and review whether its working? Working together as parents is the best way, presenting a united front.

As for being fearful of your daughter acting up, I would be careful of obviously not wanting to cause trauma, but again, you are her mother, and you are the other parent involved in these decisions, which she can only play a small part in whilst things are so difficult. She is the child, and you the adult, your decision.

Your alternative, which mumgran54 suggested is to wait until she wants to come back to you, if you can. it does sound like this arrangement has become unbearable though.

My daughter loved all the lavish goods, outtings, and continual control of the visits with her Dad, but its not doing her any good! .. and I have to re-establish some fairly basic groundrules at home, mostly after visits (generally seen as the 'bad guy')! She now realises that I do stuff very differently to her Dad, have no money to lavish on her, and am quite strict, but we do have loads of fun and are very happy and close.

If it was me in your position, I would not go down on her hard or be overindulgent either, I would take the middle ground, and be myself. I would give her lots of one on one time with you, and not force too much time with others, a bit is ok, I know when I saw my Dad after he and my Mum split, I just wanted him to myself and didn't want to share him.

I never get why non residential parents feel they have to be hard with rules etc on the child, yes the non residental parent has a scared child that respects them, I wonder if there is much like or love in that kind of relationship short or long term... as a child of divorced parents the last thing that would make me want to see a non residential parent is someone full of rules and no fun!

I think the pressure needs to come off, have fun with her, if she doesn't do the homework then send it back to her Dad for him to organise her he is the residential parent now let him have the full job including the grief from school if she doesn't do the homework, I wouldn't even discuss why it was not done, I do think going hard on her regarding homework and the such is not going to work when the non residential parent personally.

I think you may benefit from speaking to your gp about this situation to keep yourself well.

I suspect that once the shine has worn off for your dd and your ex and his g/f etc, and the realities of life settle in, your dd may change her mind again and move back in with you, this will depend on you keeping your spirits up and not being too hard on her with rules or pressure to move back in with you, be FUN MUM!

OP - I bought a kipling purse from qvc. It was more than I wanted to pay but I have been trying to find a non leather purse for ages and my old one was literally falling apart.

It wsan't cheap and it's a perfectly nice purse (though nowhere near enough credit card slots), but ime it certainly isn't 'designer' as in hot property and hugley expensive.

Basically they have these monkey keyrings attached to them which all have individual names. Only the purses don't so I didn't get one! Maybe they are considered designer in terms of teenager girls can afford though. Or maybe i'm just clueless. But if that's the extent of the designer gear they're buying her you really shouldn't be worrying.

No amount of money in the world can buy the feeling of your loving mum's arms around you and knowing she is there for you when you need her.
Give your dd time and she'll come to understand that. Just make sure she knows the door is always open so she knows she can come to you if and when she is ready.

Please do get some proper and regular contact sorted out. It doesn't matter when her dad can fir it into his life to see her. What matters is that you see her regularly and you both know when that will be. See if you can get a commitment from him for every other weekend.
I would be reluctant to suggest court at this stage as she may come home in a few weeks of her own accord or when she finds teh grass isn't greener on teh otehr side. And you don't want to give your ex more ammo to use against you or to get something set in stone (court order) that isn't required should she come back in a few weeks time.

I think you need to take this in steps and not expect things to change quickly - this is as much about your relationship in 1,2,3, 4, 5, 10 ,15 years time as it is about now. I also suspect "going to get" her is going to make her dig her heels in and at this stage only make things worse.

If exH is an "OK" guy start by talking to him, tell him you are worried about how the relationship is going and want regular contact regardless of his shifts and without going to courts. If he says no then move to mediation and if necessary go further. Just a thought but would any of his family/friends support you? I also think that any dad that lets his child "skive" is not being a good parent and I doubt anyone else would - except the child of course! Anyway this route may lead to some rocky months and it may cause some tears but if nothing else in the future your daughter will know you fought for her.

As and when you have your daughter, then I think mummiehunnie has a good idea. In the short term make it fun, don't worry about homework or try to be the rule maker (heaven knows many Dads take a similar stance when they only have a few days access!) And before I get flamed I'm not saying this is right for the long term but you need to start from scratch and then over time can build upthe parental side of the relationship.

At the same time - spend a bit of time on yourself, I don't want to trivalise things but if she sees you as a a happier woman and a more welcoming house to come visit this may make it more appealling (this is a huge assumption on my part but reading between the lines I see huge unhappiness in general and for 11 year olds this may be too much to handle. Forgive me if I overstepped a boundary)

And finally sit down and talk to your daughter or write her a letter as soon as possible and before you start doing any of this. Explain what your ideas are - either based on these suggestions or others - and tell her you love her, you dont want to push her away and you know you both need to work on it and you hope that she will remember all of this now and in the future.

Good luck, and really hoping I see some more posts from you

Some good advice here Wirral, with regard to making it a positive and fun time when your DD visits, but I disagree TOTALLY with asking DD for "her ideas on how you can improve your relationship".
That is your job, as you're the adult. She doesn't need that responsibility.

That said, I can't imagine how hard this must be for you. But you can't just lie down and take it.

INSIST that regular contact times are put in place with your DD. You have rights you know. And your DD will thank you for not giving up on her when she's a little older and more able to understand.

How are you doing today Wirral?

That's really kind of you to ask. I survived a day in work and actually found a new job that I will concentrate on applying for - it would involve studying so would be good for me as things are at the moment.
Just got home from seeing the King's Speech.Which I really enjoyed.

That's the positive bit of today - the negative bit is that I haven't heard from daughter or Ex and I also note that she's deleted me from Facebook (since I mentioned to her Dad that she'd been boasting about shopping instead of school - shame he had to tell her that I'd seen it!)

Today was officially a GOOD day!

x

I should also thank everyone for the advice.

I should point out that I was (am) fun Mum. I have done the face packs, foot spa and nail varnish.
I've always taken daughter everywhere with me to the extent she calls my friends "Auntie"
When fed up we used to pitch tent on the Bed!! and sleep in it
I took her to Egypt last year and we rode on camels and went into the desert.
I've always been the parent who despite being single and working fulltime has had the halloween parties and birthday parties and her friends round
I haven't been and am not the misery that I appear on here this is why I am so devastated by her decision to live with her Dad. I thought we had a really strong bond. I am not sure what I did wrong and don't know how to put it right.
She isn't speaking to me at all!

Sorry for being grumpy

Good to hear of your 'good day' :) She's just had her head turned by the new (and she thinks) exciting family situation, where lots of money is lavished and she's been allowed to be 'naughty' and break some rules!

Completely 'get' the depth of hurt!!! I wouldn't assume anyone is judging you to be 'not fun mum', rather that its a good emphasis to have at the moment?

You've said you have a great bond (she just doesn't realise).. I sense she's being like any kid in that situation... but she does need to have respect for you, and it must have been SO hard to send her back to her dad when she got abusive...

Things won't feel so 'honeymoon' for her for long, and she'll miss those fun 'camps', etc. & closeness with Mum.. take care

That made me smile whiteandnerdy! Thanks!

So - had text today from ex suggesting that we all go out for a meal on 31st March so that daughter can open her exam results with us. How should I reply?

31st March seems a long way off. Since she won't speak to me at moment it is difficult to know what to do.

Is this the next time I am going to see her?

Should she open her exam results?

Should I go with ex or ask if I can have her for celebration with my family soon after

Can I ask for opinions? I just want to see daughter but before then!

you need to see her regularly before then... Her Dad has to facilitate your relationship with your daugther, and that means she comes to see you on regular agreed days, whether talking to you or not!

You definitely have to be the one to make this relationship work, on your terms, but meeting her needs.

I think 'your' time to celebrate with her is essential...

You go ahead and make your plans for a night with your family/friends, thats a lovely idea.

... although I wouldn't like the pressure on 'results', either for me or my daughter.. but thats obviously your call completely.

Glad to hear about your good day Wirral.

Agree with Shriek - Your ex needs to facilitate here & if he's an "OK" guy he should do that for you. It's not reasonable for you to wait until the end of March to see her.

Got me thinking about why an "OK guy" might be behaving so thoughtlessly. It occurred to me that your ex is probably quite excited about having his daughter live with him and might have got carried away by that excitement. My exH (also OK guy) can be like this sometimes & I just have to spell things out to him - always works better if I'm calm when I do it (or at least pretend to be calm). Presumably the access arrangements weren't so ad hoc when she lived with you - maybe he needs to be reminded about that and be asked to consider how he would have felt if they were.

I'm sure you will get to be "fun mum" again in the future. You just need to get over being hurt so badly - it's impossible to be fun when you're feeling wounded.

I think the text is a good point to start a conversation - please dont respond by text I always think these things just can't be handled in chunks of small 100 words or less!

IMO you should accept the dinner invitation (it could be perceived as you don't care or being difficult if you decline) but also make it clear you see that as a future plan and you want to see her before then. As for planning a celebration with your family, again build it into a plan of other activities. Maybe if she sees a plan for a number of things coming up that she'll enjoy then she'll be more keen on coming. Yes that is pandering to her but I think in the short tem you may have.

And as someone who maybe was a bit harsh on the "fun mum" bit, I'm sorry but you came across so sad in the thread, that I wondered if this maybe came across in RL and she could sense it. Sorry if I caused you any offense.

Speaking for myself, I was trying to say that as your ex is sending homework that you should not be the bad cop, and that was where the fun Mum comment came from in my post. Good for you that you have done nice things with your dd, I am sure you will again.

I would go to the meal, and respond in a phone call in the evening when you expect dd to be there, and ask to speak to her.

Hi Wirral, hope today has been another good day!

Been reading your thread but not commented before. One thing I would do is ring your DD's school and ask them to inform you if she is not at school.

Another thing would be to get a calendar, arrange to meet X without DD and arrange proper access dates for the next 3 months at least. If he won't then I think you MUST see a solicitor.

If your XH is indeed an 'ok guy' then he needs to prove it by arranging proper access so that DD gets to keep her relationship with her mum. A child needs its mother. Full stop. This should not depend on what is convenient to him, his working arrangements or his gf.

Your DD will come back IMHO, but in the meantime she needs to know that parent's can't just be ignored when it's inconvenient to an 11 year old - your XH is colluding in this at the mo. As others have said, when she is a bit older she will appreciate that you fought for her.

I would also put together a list of things you know your DD would like to do and plan to do one every time she comes to stay. I'd also talk to her about your side of the family and your own childhood and her babyhood - my DC's love that and it seems to give them a sense of identity and family longevity which helps put temporary family problems in perspective.

WRT the family meal for exam results I'd wait until you've spoken to DD and see if that's what she wants to do before agreeing.

For yourself I think you need to try to rise above this 11 year old's ideas about what is the best for her and gently but firmly maintain your own identity/role as her mother.

Chin up wirral and stay strong, this is not a test of parental love that most parents go thro but I think that is what this is in a strange way iyswim. It's very hard but you can do it.

Thanks all again. Today has been ok -been to book group and been able to hold forth in my dislike for a Tale of Two Cities.

Thanks for commenting Pickgo. I really wish that I'd asked for advice a long time ago as this thread is at least giving me food for thought.

My X texted me tonight to let me know that this situation is all my fault as I have brought her up for the last 5 years! More food for thought!

The reason for listing my "fun " mum things was to stress that I have really tried my best. I admit that I am by no means perfect but I don't understand what more I could have done or what more I can do in the future. If anything, I wish I hadn't worked fulltime but at the time I thought it was setting a good example. Daughter had to walk home on own and stay in house on own for about an hour and a half at night but I thought she was ok about this but maybe I was wrong.

I do have a Court Order stating the contact arrangments with her Dad. This was needed due to his insistence that I follow his shift pattern. If I ask for contact arrangmente for the next 3 months then I suspect it will follow his shift pattern whereas I would like the one night mid week and alternate weekends. I am not sure what a court would say bearing in mind that I assume daugher would side with her Dad.

Thanks again all x

You sound like a great mum. It must all be terribly painful for you to cope with.

I expect a lot of this isn't to do with you personally or about the strength of your mother-daughter bond.

It could be any combination of hormones, teen angst, teen rebellion, trauma because of your separation from exH, immaturity, playing parents off one another, or sheer bloody-mindedness,(etc, etc, etc!)

Keep your dignity and a right perspective of all you have done for her. Your primary role isn't as fun-meister, but as parent guiding her into adulthood. Hopefully you'll emerge as "friends" later on, but you've got other things to tackle at the moment.

I expect, as with all childhood phases, "this too will pass" and at some point your dd will get a right perspective of all the positives you've given her.

Chin up; don't let her see you floundering - she needs (at least the appearance of) a strong mother to give her a sense of security.

All the very best.

I think you made a poor choice in leaving a 9 1/2 year old alone that long and that regularly, it is not something I would do. I had to care for myself and a younger sibling for long periods of time like that on a regular basis, and it seemed ok at the time, as I got to realise that other children's parents paid for them to go to childminders or spent that time with them, then I began to feel quite worthless in my parents eye's and felt worthless in general. Work for my mother always came first, did you go to school plays/assemblies/sports days, my mother never did as she had to WORK, work always was her first priority, never me.

I think you daughter must feel a very poor second to yours and your ex's work, by the way you both prioritise things. We all need money to survive, as parents we are given notice of events, and we do get holidays that can be used for such days.

I didn't like the way your ex is now blaming you for the problems with your daughter, he is her parent also.

What exactly does your court oder say?

If it is that your dd should be living with you, then you need to go back to get the order looked at, unless it was from a final hearing. At the end of the day, if your daughter does not want to live with you, because you left her alone every day, I would not be surprised if the court ordered that she live with her Dad and stepmum who have time for her, and don't leave her alone a lot.

It really is a significant thing to have left out that your dd was left alone so long so often, it is probably why she has built up her resentment towards you, I still don't understand why you didn't leave her with a child minder or after school club?

WhiteandNerdy if you're feeling grumpy start your own thread. You're not being helpful here.

OP - don't know what to say, when dd was 12 she rejected me albeit for a few weeks. She felt her df needed her!

Stay being her mother. And I really do hope it works out for you both. All of you in fact.

MummieHunnie I try really hard not to engage in one on one disagreements on this site as they always seem to end in tears :) but I just wanted to give Wirral a different perspective to your experience.

My Mum left my sister and I alone first thing in the morning for about 45 minutes and then probably about an hour / hour and half at night. It didn't bother us in the slightest and in fact has given both of us a huge sense of the sacrifices she made to keep a roof over our heads and how hard she worked. We also learnt to be very independent, and in fact the only time an emergency happened (I split a boiling casserole over my stomach) I remember we were both very calm about getting me help and it was never a big issue (all be it my mum feels guilty to this day especially when I tease her )

I can see from how you wrote about your situation it was maybe more abut your mother's choice, versus ours which was simply about money to live on. So perhaps the emotions are different there.

In this case only Wirral knows if this is something that could be at the root of the issues with her Daughter. As she says she is thinking now that maybe it did, so worth exploring but from my experience it may not be the only factor or indeed any factor.

As for new arrangements, Wirral you won't know until you ask and I do think at some point soon you and your ex need to sit down and talk this through. You both have responsibility here and I simply can't see how it will be resolved with out both your agreement (ideally amicably or if not through the courts)

Seoraemaeul, if you don't want to engage in disagreements that end in tears, they maybe you should just have shared your experience, rather than make the comments you did towards me.

You have your experience, I have had mine, and op's daughter has had her's, something has gone wrong in op's relationships with her child, op suggested that it was probably because she left a child of a very young age alone for long periods of time regularly, it really is not the norm in this day and age and the daughter will know that, it is not going to help with self esteem that your Mum would leave you alone like that at such a young age and not pay for childcare like the vast majority of parents do, as that is what is socially acceptable now a days.

I agree with you, in that it made me self reliant and various other things, I had to care for myself from the age of six walking to and from school, getting told off if I lost they key etc, crying as I had to hang around for an hour and a half in the cold waiting until my mum came home, she was not a single parent until I was in my last year of secondary school, it was pure greed and love of money in her case. I believe that, the route of my eating disorder is due to not feeling cared for and being left alone for long periods of time, regularly and being forced to take on responsibility for myself and a younger sibling. I got shouted at for not doing the same by my mother who spent her life spitting with venom about people who want to spend time at home "pathetic/worthless people to look down on" and other such nasty words were used until I stood up to her, I would never ask a child younger than secondary school level to care for themselves for long periods of time on a regular basis, if I could not do it, I pay for after school club/childminder to do so, it is far too young imho and I am allowed my thoughs as are you who thinks it is perfectly ok to leave a 9 year old regularly alone for long periods of time, so there you have what you desired by directly targeting me and adressing me, when all you had to do was put in your experience and opinion.

Oh dear! I only mentioned the staying on her own as I am mulling things over. Daughter honestly appeared VERY happy with the independence and appeared to enjoy the responsibility. It was absolutely never about the money, I would have paid for a childminder but daughter appeared to be happy in own home. She would call me at work when home or walking home and we would chat to ensure she was ok.

She is very grown up in many ways but perhaps, with hindsight it wasn't the right thing to do.

I frequently spent time walking home on my own from school at her age and spending time on my own before my parents came home from work. I certainly didn't mind

Thanks again for all the advice.