Should ex tell me his address where he will be taking the children at the weekends

[evolucy7]

I'm after some opinions on this, my ex has now moved to a new house and despite me having known where he has lived for the past 2 1/2 years and where the children have been staying overnight, he has now point blank refused to tell me where he has moved to... He was told to inform me where he lived and took the children by my solicitor 2 1/2 years ago, but now we no longer have solicitors as we have been through the court process and have a court order in place. I suspect he now won't tell me for this very reason. Would you want to know?

I was under the impression they'd been to court and there was an order that ex has the children every other weekend. And this has been going for on for a while without any concen of abduction or harm.

Is there an order that you know his address?

I agree he should give you his address, but you're going to be dealing with your ex for the next 16 years, so you both need to find a way to sort this.

Going to court regulay will be expensive and an emotional nightmare

Court told my DPs exW that she has no reason to know our address and we have no need to know her address. As long as there is a contactable number that is fine. This came from the judge when we went to court for access.

I'm getting quite worried that so many people have had judges say there is no need to have addresses. I would quite confidently advise a client that they are entitled to have the address of where their children stay overnight; indeed I was prepared to go to court myself on that basis.

Perhaps this happens in cases where there is evidence of bad blood and stalkerish behaviour??

I honestly can't recall a case in which I have been involved where a judge sanctioned a refusal to give an address, certainly not when the children were under 12.

I still think such a refusal is completely unreasonable and unjustified, unless you have genuine reasons to fear that your ex will turn up and put a brick thru your window.

I can't imagine why courts would say disclosure of an address is not necessary, or why someone wouldn't simply give their address unless there are compelling reasons why not, such as abusive behaviour.

mj - in my limited experience, addresses are only released where there is overnight contact.

In my own case, until recently I have only known that my ex lives in central London. At court she tried to refuse to give her address as I might "hassle" her (yeah, that'd happen. I often feel like sticking our 3.2 dd in the car / finding a babysitter, and driving for two hours each way just to stalk you. NPD fuckwit, you stalked me, and still do.)

Being as she wanted overnights, the court virtually ordered her to reveal her address. My brief did say in court that if she wanted to keep it provate, that was fine, so long as she gave up on residency or overnights.

Anyways. As ever I see your point - OP has no reason to believe DCs are at any risk of abuse or abduction (though there is suggestion of emotional neglect iirc), so he is entitled to private life.

However, OP is entitled to know where two young DC's are overnight in case of any emergency. She is also more than entitled to show her reasonableness and his unreasonableness in court should that be necessary, hence my suggestion of letter / email to civily ask for address, state why, re-assure emergency only, state what she intends to do if he won't give it.

Semi-unrelated, but does he pay appropriate maintenance? Not that this has anything to do with contact (especially not in law), just thinking about any sanctions he might decide to impose.

mjin...courts do issue a court order because one party wants one. This is what has happened, he refused to accept anything other than a court order, he even wanted the exact week for his summer holiday specified, and would you believe summer 2010, the first time it was to happen, he said he couldn't take them away, so he didn't!

I was advised by a solicitor from the start in May 2008, he represented himself. I followed my solicitor's instructions to the letter, and I learnt a lot from her over the 18 months or so of the court process about really thinking about what is best for the children.

He was adamant that he wanted a weekday tea visit, I suggested the Friday on the weekend that he did not have the girls, as they would not have school the next day, so he could have them for longer, he said 'No I want Wednesday I can 100% commit to a Wednesday and I don't want to let my children down', so the court gave him Wednesday but only for 1 hour' A few months down the line he stopped doing Wednesday tea.
He does like to think he is getting his own way, to the extent that he argued about the day, but when it came to it stopped the visit anyway, what a waste of time!

He said he wanted a court order so we all knew where we stood, fair enough.

Sparkle..I think you said this, yes of course his opinion should be considered, but in this case I am just being told to accept that he won't tell me where the children will be overnight, he said 'No I will not tell you the address, and no I will not tell you why I will not tell you'.

Personally, I don't think the reason he won't give his new address is because he has new girlfriend there, I think it is just to be awkward.

I have rung the solicitor that I used before, but she is out of the office today, so I will speak to her tomorrow.

I told my daughters' teachers briefly what had happened when I took them to school this morning, it is a small school and they know we are separated, I thought they should know in case, especially given the snow, they might say 'Did you all have a nice weekend, and they may say something about we were going to go with Daddy but didn't, so I thought the teachers should know.
One of the teachers said my youngest had told her last Friday on the coach back from swimming that she did not want to go to Daddy's tomorrow.

cross posted with you, mj. Agree entirely, court very likely to be unhappy with them both.

Umm, I best get back to work now.

Ah, he is a cock. SGB was right. Then it will serve evo best to be the reasonable adult. And I still think you should be able to have his address or no overnights.

Is there a weekend playgroup he could take them to instead?

mjin...I'm sorry but I have to disagree, I am not using the children to try to force ex to do what I wanted, I simply asked to be informed where they would be staying overnight, as I am not comfortable with the idea of having no idea where they are. I am sure that there are many examples of things that could fall in to the category of me doing that, but as I have known where they were for the last 2 1/2 years, as he told me before, this is not a new or unusual request, it is simply a request for the new information now that he has moved house.
As I said I appreciate that I have strictly speaking breached the court order, but made that decision in the interests of having knowledge of where a 3 and 4 year were staying. He took them on a short break in October half-term and gave me the address where they would be then.

I too have, regrettably, been through the courts - a hideously stressful experience which I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I still do not understand why, when there are overnights with young children are involved, an address does not have to be disclosed.

As ever, I am surprised just how often it happens on MN that people are prepared to jump in and defend the most unreasonable behaviour. Would anyone here who has a young child be happy for them to go away overnight without knowing where they are, cause I certainly wouldn't!

How is this going to be resolved?

No contact until he gives you his address?

And what about your daughter not wanting to go as she said why

This needs to be kept simple. You're more than happy for him to have them, but need to know his new address first. An email stating this clearly would be useful. Once he supplies it, I'd suggest you do dropoff the first time to ensure he's not lied.

Even if he does take it to court - even if the courts say he doesn't have to do this, you'll have the judge's sympathy because this is an entirely reasonable request, even if there is a legal loophole which means he could get away with it.

mjin...I was just saying that I am trying my best not to act like that, but not by just saying ok this is unreasonable but never mind you have your way

Truck...well after speaking to solicitor tomorrow, if this is what she advises, I will email, can't write a letter don't know the address lol, and we'll take it from there.

And as for daughters' saying they don't want to go, god don't get me started, its blooming nightmare, trying to work out what a 3 and 4 year old really mean/feel.

It doesn't generally make any difference what a child wants wrt visits. Courts see this as the child having the right to see a father whether she wants to or not, and also the father having the right to see the child. A father can walkaway from a schedule but a child is held to it.

I have to say that I disagree mathanxiety, a child will not be forced to see their father if they don't want to....I am not saying that at 3 and 4 this would necessarily be the case, or that this would be the case with my children, but theoretically no court would a make a child who quite clearly did not want to go to see their father go.

With a young child, the residential parent could be open to charges of trying to alienate affection if he or she tried to push it though (it's nearly always the mother who is accused of this). The question a court would puzzle over is the word 'clearly', if the other parent was willing to take it as far as court.

Well what you have both decribed is not what I said, I am not talking about where a child has been influenced I am talking about a child who genuinely does not want to go, and I have not said that this is what I think my children think, I am talking theoretically.

evo - math & mj are spot on wrt courts, contact & parental alienation. The children are, for want of a better word, forced to see their NRP.

Very recently in my case, the judge made it very clear to ex that she was to bring back DD promptly, and to be equal the judge also made it clear to me that I was to make DD available for contact at the times stipulated. Which the court already knew I did and would continue to do...