Should ex tell me his address where he will be taking the children at the weekends

[evolucy7]

I'm after some opinions on this, my ex has now moved to a new house and despite me having known where he has lived for the past 2 1/2 years and where the children have been staying overnight, he has now point blank refused to tell me where he has moved to... He was told to inform me where he lived and took the children by my solicitor 2 1/2 years ago, but now we no longer have solicitors as we have been through the court process and have a court order in place. I suspect he now won't tell me for this very reason. Would you want to know?

I really don't understand some people's attitudes. My ex is not my friend and I don't have friendly chats with him, but I would never say he couldn't phone his daughter and I would never refuse to tell him where we were living or let him have a phone number.

It really is just bog standard basic responsible parenting and I would hope any judge in any court would come down hard on any refusal to share such basic details, for the good of the children.

Evo what a strange turn in the situation considering your thread earlier in the week.

I have known a few people where addresses have been withheld in access arrangements although phone numbers have been exchanged.

Most of it has come down to the fact that the NRP wanted some degree of privacy from the EXP and considering that their EXPs never did any pick ups and drop offs they did not see the need for an address to be given. However we are talking about people who have got some crazy EXPs!

In this instance it may backfire a bit because if your EXP has not been court ordered to release the address at this point in time but there is an order in place to hand over the children then the only person breaching anything is yourself. As ridiculous as that may seem!

However if it were me, given the concerns you have expressed this week about your youngest I probably would have taken the same stance. I know you were thinking ways of trying to make the handover more comfortable for the children so for this to happen just throws a spanner in the works really.

The reality is now you will be the person that is stopping him seeing his children - that is what he will be saying. So you both really need to resolve this issue quickly before the children notice any major issues and before he takes legal action again which may see you being criticised for breaching the court order (and he may request his costs too!)

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...!

Sorry but there seems to be the mentality here that being the PWC gives you the right to know everything about your child's whereabouts when they are with the NRP. In the UK the only person that has any rights is the child. They have the right to have a relationship with both parents independently of the other parent.

I had to have this clause specifically written into my divorce agreement and ex still left me in the dark about a new phone number he had. Ex knew where I lived. He just liked holding it over me that I didn't know where he was. According to the agreement I am also obliged to tell him of any address change, phone number change or change of email address within a short period of time. No skin off my nose, as I'm not a jerk. When I found ex's address I also found there was a registered sex offender living too close for comfort so was able to warn the DCs; of course exH hadn't bothered checking for little details like this.

Well done for not letting the girls go with him. I don't think there's any court that would sanction you for this. And yes, he values power games over contact with the children (big surprise there no doubt).

math - how did you learn there was a sex offender living close by your EX? Why would you tell your children that piece of information and I take it your EX admitted to you that he didn't check for sex offenders in his area?

I have children myself and would not know how to check for a sex offender living close to me and it has never occurred to us to advise DH's EXW to check for them also.

In the case of my DCs, who were left alone in the flat while exH went out for a run or on errands, the question of where they actually were was important, and they didn't know the address either -- if they had to make an emergency call because of fire or carbon monoxide or someone trying to break in, they wouldn't have been able to give the details to the operator.

It seems to me if one party de facto knows where the other is there should be a reciprocal knowledge and a right to reciprocation unless the second party can prove there's stalking or threats going on. The welfare of the children means knowing where they are based when they are with the NRP. Not where they are every minute of every day -- that's unreasonable. But a phone number to leave a message and knowledge of the address are not one bit unreasonable.

I totally agree with your second paragraph math but if your children were not able to dial 999 and handle the call why would your EX even contemplate leaving them on their own??

It was in the US where there's an online registry for most counties -- sex offenders are required to register when they get out of prison. I typed in the exH's address and bingo, two doors down there was a man who had raped two little girls. I told the DCs and also exH because as a parent I felt they should be aware of their surroundings. I told exH because I felt he should be aware too (and take whatever precautions he felt were necessary in terms of letting them out to play, etc.)

I believed he probably hadn't checked because when we were still married a sex offender moved in with an old man on our street and exH had been extremely vociferous on the subject of child safety, the need to get this person shifted out of the neighbourhood, etc. At the time of that earlier episode, the DCs were told about that particular sex offender, with both me and exH agreed on the need to tell them. It came to light in the summer, when they were out almost constantly, and so was the ex-con. I therefore believed exH would be interested to know who he was living near, assuming he had the best interests of the children in mind.

Ahhh. It's very clear now, thank you.

WRT calling fire, ambulance, police etc. -- exH has form for not thinking through little details about the DCs and their welfare, blithely going about his business, assuming everything would be just fine.

If he was a different sort of man we would still be married. I don't know how a responsible adult thinks there's anything to be gained from not sharing a simple detail like a phone number or an address. He would leave the DCs alone because he felt like it and because he could, and because he prioritised his exercise or the convenience of running errands on his own.

On a serious note Math, if he was that much of a risk to the children's welfare why have supervised visits not been set up?

The bar is set really, really high when it comes to assessing a risk to the children's welfare. He would have to crash the car while driving drunk with them inside and not buckled up, or beat one of them up or have some other disaster befall them as a direct result of his negligence for it to be even considered.

evolucy didn't stop him having contact with the children, he decided he didn't want it. He could easily have taken them.

I wonder if he has a new GF and doesn't want you going around there and him ending up in trouble?

I do think he should tell you his address.

But I don't understand the emergency bit, if he had an emergency with the children you wouldn't know about it anyway and wouldn't they go to the hospital or doctors? So he wouldn't be home anyway?

And if you had an emergency it doesn't matter where he is.

What do I know though? My ex still has keys for my house and lets herself in when she comes round. So I don't understand his thinking.

My SD's Mother won't give my H her address. It's not just NRPs who don't think it's important. (no history of DV, injunctions, aggression, etc on either side).

And I don't think you should have stopped contact either. The impression I get is you don't really want your ex around. This may not be the case but it just seems that way.

Evolucy, the thing is your XP is a dickhead so it's no good to approach issues as though you are dealing with a reasonable person. He's not a reasonable person and won[ turn into one. Talk to a solicitor, say you are not going to allow him to take the DC until you have an address for him.

Thanks everyone...
To me is it quite simple, I have known where he was for 2 1/2 years, no issues at all, I only ever went there once to collect one daughter for party, as we had agreed. Never did I have any desire to to go there at any other point
He clearly knows where I live as he collects the children. He personally told the magistrates 2 years ago that there was no reason that his address could not be read out in court.
If he has a new girlfriend how lovely for her, what a lucky girl.
It is all about control, amongst other things he made a real fuss when we moved house about me giving him the girls' new dentist details, they go every 6 months and have no problems with their teeth! I have nothing against giving this information obviously, but it all seems very one sided, he has to be told everything about everything and yet is unable to provide what I consider a basic piece of information. I am torn between thinking that he just wants to be bloody awkward to thinking that there is some other reason now why he won't tell me and I find that quite bizzare and worrying actually.
I understand that he will think that I am stopping him seeing his children, but in reality I don't think that I am. He had a choice, and has had the chance since 19 November when I first asked to provide the address details, but refused with no reason. When I asked him why he wouldn't tell me where he now lived, he said 'I don't have to tell you why I don't want to tell you' It does seem he just wants to play games...but ffs this is just going to go on and on. Before our jointly owned house was sold he still had control there and would regularly remind me of it, when I lived there with the girls not him, he claimed several times that he would let himself in if he felt like it as it was still his house. My solicitor told him this was disrespectful and was not to be done, however he legally had the right as his name was still on the mortgage. But he never did it was empty threats. But the house sale was completed 19 Novermber, and this is obviously his new focus for his control.

Truckulent....a caring responsible father is exactly what children need, one who likes to play games and will not communicate about the children at all raises questions. I already have issues with the children saying they don't like going. I appreciate that the whole situation, all these events will be feeding off each other, mine and his reactions, the feelings of the children, but how do we get over this.
He won't provide basic information, the children say they don't want to go, do I just say, ok don't tell me where you are taking them, off you go girls you'll be fine never mind.....I'll just enjoy my weekend off (which I thoroughly appreciate by the way). I really don't think that is how a responsible mother acts.

I've kinda skimmed here, so sorry if this has already been said.

Withholding his address is NOT enough reason in itself for you to withhold contact.

It becomes tit for tat, you lower yourself to his level, you weaken your position if you go back to court, and it's the DCs that suffer.

That said, it IS enough reason to stop overnight contact.

And that is what I would advocate. No address for where they'll be sleeping = no overnight contact.

btw, in my case (which was just the other week for the final hearing), the NRP ex was told by the court to reveal her address.

I believe this was mainly because she was asking for overnight contact (which she didn't get for a variety of reasons).

Is there not a clause in one of your orders saying something like that contact can be re-arranged by mutual consent?

Well that is what I have done....if yesterday morning I had said take them and bring them back at the end of the day he wouldn't have done, and I would have had no way of going to collect them as I had no idea where they were.

yes. I know that feeling. I should've considered that. d'oh.

Then as previously suggested, put it in a firmly worded letter and / or email to him - contact is between, say, 10 am and 6pm on alternate Sat & Sun (or whatever he normally has) unless he will provide his address. If he is not willing to provide his address so that you can know where DCs will be sleeping, then you will not make DCs available for contact. You could also put in a sentence or two to the effect that you will not make use of the address except in an emergency.