Richmond Borough Schools Chat 7

[muminlondon2]

Lots and lots of discussions on local schools and education issues preceded this thread, including Richmond Borough Schools Chat 6.

Anyone who wants to carry on that discussion, and offer information and opinions (without being moderated by any particular individual or interest group, bearing in mind all the usual mumsnet guidelines about respect and not getting personal, etc.) - feel free.

I really do hope they get the Udney Park site. It's huge - twice the size of the Teddington School site - and has good bus access. It will, of course, change the area a bit and it will upset residents during the construction phase but I believe it's a good use of the site.

Does anyone know whether Newland or other indep schools put a bid in? The Space to Play people did bid so that's another contender, right?

John Coombs: 'They have now told me the same thing. Seems @LBRUT are not being kept informed.'

twitter.com/jwgcoombs/status/601367299610796033

He doesn't say who in LBRuT he spoke to. It's a big organisation. My other half works for LBRuT and he doesn't have inside info and nor would I expect him to. I expect only a few high-ups know what's going on. they must surely have a relationship mgr for free schools. Paul Hodgins sounds like he's in the loop in his statement. Of course local councils are as leaky as sieves so I wouldn't be surprised if the EFA were playing their cards close to their chest, especially after what happened last year.
As I said b4, we'd be happy with either site provided planning issues were addressed properly and know others who feel the same. It would be good to know either way though.

The trouble with all these Free Schools - Turing, Deer Park etc is that everything is so secretive. Local people are kept in the dark and most likely are then presented with a "done deal" even though they have to go through the planning procedures with the local council. I would not mind betting on the fact that those "on high" just tell the council they have to pass the planning applications and just to ignore the any issues raised by local residents. I am afraid that " money talks" these days.

AuntieC I think you are right about money talks, and the same head-in-sand attitude is displayed by the DfE towards newly converted academies too, when they want to make changes that put other schools at a disadvantage.

In Hounslow Rivers Academy want not only to reduce its intake, but also jiggle its admissions by introducing a literacy test and taking 'banded intake' that loosely applies to the national average but not the local average. So that might mean it will cream off more able pupils but skew intakes elsewhere. And it wants to prioritise feeder schools that aren't even local to it but happen to be in the same trust. So more Hounslow middle/lower ability kids would be refused a place and need to go elsewhere. Neighbouring schools would include Feltham Community College, but perhaps also Twick/Hampton Academies. But Turing House if in Whitton could also be local to those affected pupils: given the fears that it would undermine Twickenham Academy there, and location closer to Hounslow, it would be an inclusive gesture for it to actively recruit disadvantaged Hounslow pupils - e.g. by prioritising Pupil Premium children in its policy.

The 'money talks' bit - this trust has been in the Guardian recently:

The academies couple who contribute - and take out – a lot

Academies trust makes payments to its chairman’s US company

I'm not sure how long the confirmed 2016 admissions policy for Turing House has been published on the website, but it clarifies one thing: while the school is at its temporary site, e.g. three years, 100% of its pupils determined on distance will come from the admissions point at Somerset Gardens. After it moves into its permanent site, according to that policy, 20% will come from the location of the school. (Of course, the lack of certainty on the permanent site could drag on for months or years!)

This is after looked after children, SEN, 'founder's children' (not defined: are these the five 'parent members' on the steering committee?) and siblings. By the time it moves to a permanent site, that 20% is reduced from a potential 30 maximum to whatever the total is after siblings/founders. There's certainly potential for them prioritising e.g. 15% of children (or national average) on pupil premium on top of that, wherever they are sited.

While its admissions number has been reduced to 100, apparently they still expect to have around 110 children according to a recent tender document.

In that document it also describes the school as 'outstanding' although it obviously hasn't yet opened, let alone been rated by Ofsted. I draw attention to that because other new schools have been censured by the Advertising Standards Authority for making such claims on their websites, and RET has also used this adjective before a judgement has taken place.

It's full speed ahead for free schools:

Morgan urges more free schools:

. . Mrs Morgan cited Dixons Trinity Academy in Bradford and ARK Conway Primary Academy, in Acton, west London, as examples of those that are giving youngsters a good start in life:

"These are the modern engines of social justice . . Parents want the best for their kids, and where they are unhappy with the schools on offer locally the free school programme empowers them to demand more and establish new, high performing, community-led new schools. So I'm calling on all high performing schools, sponsors, charities, community groups and parents to come forward with their proposals for new schools and join us in our shared mission of providing every child with a truly world class education." . .

TW11 as I posted up thread Harlequins have told their members they have put in a bid in cahoots with Newlands. Space to play have of course said they would be interested in some sort of partnership with Turing, not something that would even be on the table if the EFA weren't bidding (and why wouldn't they be given there were previous well advanced negotiations. ). You would hope Harlequins would be too. That would be the best solution for everyone I would have thought, the site shared for community use except for the people who are worried about their view . And avoiding the issues with the Whitton site, though as I have said before, and now Turing are saying) once everyone has any certainty about the site then negotiations and consultations on new admissions arrangements balancing the interests of the various affected communities to put in place when the school moves can start.

auntieC75 I don't put Turing itself in the same category as Bellevue who will run Old Deer Park or indeed GEMS who will run Twickenham Green School. It is a school that originates in the needs of parents and they have been as open as they could be about their plans. Plenty of evidence of that on these threads. It is the process that is crazy and that is down to the EFA and DofE. Having said that I do see that in terms of securing sites with value for money for the tax payer I understand that the process unfortunately has to be confidential. An open process is going to attract other bidders and the usual profiteering skullduggery of the commercial property market. Indeed it was the lack of confidentiality and the Council leak that scuppered what would presumably have been a much better deal for the EFA in securing the Udney Park site than it will be having gone to commercial auction.

muminlondon: there is nothing to stop a school using the adjective ‘outstanding’ in its usual non-technical sense: ‘ . . 5. 5. That stands out from the rest; noteworthy. Also: remarkable, exceptionally good. . . ’ (OED), just as advertisers routinely claim their products to be ‘new’, ‘better’, etc.

The prospectus overuses the word quite shamelessly:

Turing House is a brand new secondary school . . with the support of an outstanding educational trust, Russell Education Trust (RET). Our vision is for an outstanding and inclusive school . . It will attract and retain outstanding staff and support them . . We know
that outstanding teaching promotes outstanding learning . . Bristol Free school has been judged by Ofsted as good with outstanding features and Becket Keys was judged outstanding in all categories . .

There’s more, lot’s more, at Turing House is outstanding. An outstanding example of how to flog a cliché to death!

So we can all be outstanding, Chris! Twickenham Academy has an outstanding building, Richmond College is in an outstanding location. Teddington School has an outstanding new headteacher. Even Deer Park has outstanding photography in its brochure that makes the children look outstandingly clean. I'll make a note to look out for it.

Schoolsweek reported on an webinar with Nicky Morgan. There will be a new Academies Bill with a new 'academy presumption' to force the takeover of schools as academies, with an as yet arbitrary unclear definition of the criteria:

'It was unclear if the presumption also extends to any school found wanting under the ‘coasting’ definition too. This is one to watch – very carefully '

She will also strip out the remains of any democratic process of consultation, so this can be imposed against the wishes of parents:

'when a school is inadequate its conversion should happen in a “speedy kind of way”. Her planned education bill would strip out the need for consultations before decisions on takeover by an academy sponsor were made. '

Meanwhile another Schoolsweek article reports on how the free school bidding process lacks transparency and written feedback even for those involved in the process, such as parents backed by existing sponsors.

I don't put Turing itself in the same category as Bellevue who will run Old Deer Park or indeed GEMS who will run Twickenham Green School. It is a school that originates in the needs of parents and they have been as open as they could be about their plans.

I agree with this. Turing was very definitely wanted and needed by the local community and they have been good at trying to keep people as up to date as possible.

More expansion in the private sector. Jack and Jill have expanded to two forms of entry in their pre Prep and are now applying for Planning Permission to open a Prep in Hampton High Street. www2.richmond.gov.uk/PlanData2/Planning_CaseNo.aspx?strCASENO=15%2F1755%2FFUL

I agree with AbsintheAndChips that Turing is NOT in the same category as Bellevue who have been less than truthful with their plans for Deer Park School. I cannot imagine many parents would actually want to send their children to a school on such dreadful site at Manor Circus as secured by the EFA .Perhaps they will "ship" in children from over the mystery borders to boost their numbers. Did anyone see the ITV programme on Tuesday "The Air We Breathe"? It highlighted the really bad air on main roads which should be enough to put parents off this choice of school

I know that there has been demand and expectation of a school around the West Twickenham/Fulwell area for at least 10 years. Not sure about RET but they were clearly invited.

It seems to me idle to try to impose a Teddington admissions point for a school in Whitton. The reality will be that Teddington parents will still look for local schools and will vote with their feet, and the school will inevitably find itself filling places from Whitton families.

Icimoi Fullwell parents won't have a vote. By all accounts all the schools were oversubscribed this year. The whole point has always been that Fullwell is the area in which parents will find themselves with no offer without Turing and it's admission point. And you are clearly not familiar with the local community engagement with the school. It has always enjoyed community support but now it is becoming a reality I know parents at schools like Archdeacon and Stanley who are genuinely inspired and excited by what it will offer.

The admissions point was responding to being caught between a rock and a hard place. Turing would be criticised if it turned it's back on the community it was established to serve and has the support of, just as much as for not serving the community it may find itself in, though less I suspect if the site is in the Teddington School catchment. I am sure we all support Twickenham Academy but it's educational offering isn't mainstream like Teddington's and up to now some of those with a vote have indeed voted with their feet which is why Mum has put forward the proposal that perhaps there is actually only demand for one LST school, and one site should be freed up. It would be interesting to know how many of the 100 joining Turing will in fact be travelling from Whitton.....

Anyway it is all speculation until we know which site it is and how the admissions criteria evolves, as it will evolve, once that is known.

The whole point has always been that Fullwell is the area in which parents will find themselves with no offer without Turing

Heathclif, that statement is not true - Fulwell pupils are close either to Twickenham Academy or Hampton Academy as local schools and have every chance of a place there, but traditionally have preferred and had a history of linking to Orleans Park or Teddington with Waldegrave as a solid girls' option . But a Whitton site that allows them to bypass Twickenham Academy is nonsensical to anyone not near that admissions point.

While I completely understand parents' preferences, and I don't see why TA/HA had to be linked to the same sponsor, there will be a lot spare capacity in the short to medium term with two new schools opening in three years. I can't prejudge Turing House yet until we know for certain that is going to happen. There are even worse cases of the actions of academy trusts undermining other schools. But there's something predatory about favouring a catchment area and not caring if another school withers away nearby. Let's just hope there will be a way to manage it in Richmond which does not hurt existing pupils of schools affected.

Interesting as this year, the waiting list places for Orleans Park are now beyond Third Cross Road and children who were around 50th on the waiting list are getting in. A lot of these children were going to go to Turing House. The initial offers for the likes of Waldegrave and Orleans Park do not reflect the reality come May/June and who knows how far down the waiting list places will be offered nearer September. I don't know whether this year was a one off but with so many children in the borough going private, could we not end up with 'empty' secondary schools? I don't know how far Teddington Schools waiting list has gone but it is very interesting.

I don't think 80/20 works well for Whitton but I wouldn't call it predatory given the school has always been a local community project. That split might work well for the Teddington site though. I think the two catchments should overlap to make one continuous catchment. Maybe a catchment area would work better than admissions points for that.

Also I don't see an issue with people bypassing TWick Academy if they don't want "stage not age" education any more than if they bypass St Rich Reynolds if they don't want Catholic education or bypass waldegrave if they don't want single sex. If it had a vanilla curriculum it would be different.

DDqueen I've heard Orleans park, waldegrave and Grey Court are all doing bulge classes this year but I don't know about Teddington. Overall it was meant to be a bigger year group than last year I think so they needed extra places. I also wonder if the election meant the council wanted to make it look like there were plenty of spaces. I know last year Orleans Park catchment went as far as 5th Cross even without a bulge class so it still has some distance to go this year to catch up.
I know people still on the waiting list for Turing so they'll be glad of some spaces coming up.

They are all offering an extra 16 places for the next three years and then after that the new school in Egerton Road will be up and running. I just can't see the catchments shrinking as much as everyone says post initial offers and i have a feeling Orleans catchment will match last year's if not go further. a lot of parents at our school are saying they won't put Turing House down if it is in Whitton and will hold out for Orleans even though they live v near Fulwell.

Teddington has had a very large staff turnover this year. Will be interesting to see what the GCSE and AS results are.

In fact, will be interesting to see what the AS results are for all the new 6th forms.
When will we know?
The current Year 11 will have applied without knowing. Hope they chose well...
Next year's Year 11s will be better placed to choose between 6th forms based on this year's results.

I had a look at the sign-in sheets at the Turing House meeting in April and the lists seemed to be biggest for Stanley, HHJS, SMSP and Trafalgar but there were others too. All of their meetings have been at either HHJS or Stanley so they seem to have built up a relationshiip. Some people I spoke to had been offered and turned down HA or TA but had private offers too which they were considering giving up for Turing.