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Richmond Borough Schools Chat 7

999 replies

muminlondon2 · 09/05/2015 11:29

Lots and lots of discussions on local schools and education issues preceded this thread, including Richmond Borough Schools Chat 6.

Anyone who wants to carry on that discussion, and offer information and opinions (without being moderated by any particular individual or interest group, bearing in mind all the usual mumsnet guidelines about respect and not getting personal, etc.) - feel free.

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muminlondon2 · 12/05/2015 23:45

Absinthe and Auntie - did you read their consultation report?

It said the consultation ran from 19th January to 16th February - yet the press release to announce the consultation was dated 28 January and the meetings were only held on 4th and 10th February. It promoted itself to its 58 Facebook 'friends' much earlier than that, although not enough responded to the consultation to fill half a class...

It says 37 people went to the meetings at which approx 25 (two-thirds) were local residents and 12 parents.

For some reason 'Two parents asked whether the school had the backing of the Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames' (Now why on earth would parents care what a neighbouring borough thought? Who wrote this thing? Do the sponsors even remember or care which borough/country the school is in, let alone which ward?)

it says 60% of participants favoured signing the funding agreement ... out of 21 participants. So just 12 parents, whoever they are.

How on earth did this school get approved with such little support and so many concerns from local residents?

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muminlondon2 · 13/05/2015 07:59

And this is just plain sinister: 'Bellevue Place Education Trust ... could consider promoting – including through social media – how there is a statistically proven need for more primary school places in the North Richmond area, comparable to that in the St. Margaret [sic] ward vicinity.'

But that would be a lie - because this article shows the demand is in St Margarets and Barnes. Let's watch out for that.

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AbsintheAndChips · 13/05/2015 09:17

That really is misinformation of the highest order.

I filled in the consultation but hadn't seen the report. I am just about to go out, but will definitely have a read of that later. Thanks!

Heathclif · 13/05/2015 10:22

I had been thinking that for organisations with business investors both Twickenham Green and Old Deer Park schools have done a very very poor job of marketing, creating an identity for themselves and gaining the confidence of parents and the community, particularly since both are going to have such cramped and less than ideal buildings. The marketing they do do is very generic and short on substance. Plenty of example of private schools locally in similar buildings, including the one in the Fire Station actually in Old Deer Park, but they all have well developed marketing strategies

Except duh..... I remembered they don't need to. There are over 100 parents without places for their reception children so even if a high proportion find other options they can rely on filling the 30 places even if very few actually want to go there, and / or face a difficult journey with young children.

I would be interested to hear from any parents allocated places there on how they feel about it.

At least they are unlikely to pose a threat to Darrell in the shorter term at least.

auntieC75 · 13/05/2015 10:59

muminlondon2 . It just shows how flawed the Deer Park School consultation
was. So few people responded because they never knew about it until after the so called "consultation" was closed! How is that for transparency?

muminlondon2 · 13/05/2015 11:47

heathclif in the interests of balance Wink here is the GEMS Twickennham Primary Academy Consultation Report. There were certainly more respondents - around 93. It looks like their strategy was to spends lots of money on direct advertising, possibly even in different languages.

'we targeted nurseries so that the managers could speak to parents who perhaps had not heard about the school, as well as dropping leaflets in the cafes and shops of the local Polish Community. Furthermore prospectuses were hand delivered to houses and blocks of flats in more economically deprived areas close to the school location'.

Meanwhile Education Investor reports that GEMS ' plan to own or manage over 100 schools in India over the next few years' (sounds familiar?). Sunny Varkey comments as chairman of the group - we discussed his philanthropic activities on a previous thread but he seems to be concentrating on the business side now.

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muminlondon2 · 13/05/2015 11:50

As an aside, this is an interesting sentence in the latest monitoring report of Ipswich Academy, the school that had the same sponsor as Twickenham and Hampton Academies but went into special measures and will get a changeover in September.

'An external review of the governance of all academies managed by the Learning Schools Trust has taken place but this does not relate specifically to the issues raised in Ipswich Academy’s last inspection.'

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Heathclif · 13/05/2015 12:35

mum Well in spite of that and being in an area of need it doesn't look as if they are oversubscribed gemstwickenhamprimary.org/contents.php?pageid=6205&parentid=1576

AbsintheAndChips · 13/05/2015 12:59

That consultation report is practically meaningless.

Re parents without places filling undersubscribed schools up, this never happened when Darell had spare places. The year my daughter joined, we were undersubscribed in Reception by about twelve children. Obviously that isn't the case now as they have two full classes per year in KS1, but my point is that there were people left unplaced then too but they were not prepared to take Darell for a variety of reasons (some of which may have changed in importance/influence since then). I'm sure some people will feel equally unwilling to accept Deer Park.

muminlondon2 · 13/05/2015 13:40

I know people who have in the past accepted places at lower preference schools, Darell included, who loved it so much that they turned down first preference outstanding schools offered during the Reception year to remain there.

Whereas I think it would be a massive risk to accept a place in certain new free schools and not take up an LA place in an established school if one comes up, precisely because there is a chance they will not open at all below a certain number of pupils, or they could close.

GEMS closed their US charter school after less than two years because falling rolls meant they didn't get a big enough budget. In Twickenham they could be relying on a mixture of state and private income - they are marketing it as having wraparound childcare - but how much will they charge and what do they expect to receive? Other UK free schools have closed after a similar period after a combination of site and recruitment problems, e.g. Stockport Technical School.

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AbsintheAndChips · 13/05/2015 15:28

That's interesting, muminlondon. I see what you mean about the free vs LA places.

Wraparound childcare isn't that hard to achieve, nor that expensive for those used to nursery fees! You can get care from 7.30am until 6pm at Darell for about £18 a day if you do breakfast club and the full after school club which isn't a great deal of money, considering it includes a fairly substantial breakfast and a snack after school. It's provided by an outside firm that does tons of this sort of thing for schools all over London. I think there are plenty of them around. Loads of other schools in the borough use the same company (Kew Riverside, Sheen Mount, St Stephens, Orleans etc etc).

muminlondon2 · 13/05/2015 15:48

I can't imagine how there would be enough space at the GEMS school initially - there is some building going on in the car park, but no planning permission yet, so perhaps they'll just be squeezed into a single room from 8-6pm, if they can introduce it at all in the first year.

Interesting to see other Bellevue Place Education consultations. Deer Park School had the one of lowest number of respondents to the consultation, but the highest number of residents attending meetings to object:

Kilburn Grange - 5 people attended two meetings, 40 respondents of which 10 parents of children due to start 2015

Watlling Park - 5 people attended two meetings, 18 respondents (number of 2015 parents not given)

Halley House - 8 people attended two meetings, 46 respondents of which 22 parents of children due to start 2015

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Heathclif · 13/05/2015 17:14

mum These are the minutes of the latest LST Board Meeting. As well as the fact that now LST's central costs will now be shared between three academies rather than four they highlight "the budget
challenge for 2015/16 for the three continuing academies. Reductions in income due
to falls in recruitment, reductions in funding per student would be made worse by
unfunded increased costs of teacher pensions and national insurance."
www.learningschoolstrust.org.uk/download/18.5e3fa4b914cb7216f531df/1430046328154/Minutes+29th+LST+Board+Meeting+17th+March+2015+DRAFT.pdf

Heathclif · 13/05/2015 17:18

Oh and in a report on global educational rankings the OECD have highlighted "the decline of Sweden, with the OECD warning last week that it had serious problems in its education system." www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32608772

Not that I would advocate the UK using Asian models of education but it doesn't do much for the LST brand.

Heathclif · 13/05/2015 17:27

Absinthe Very familiar with the ratio of offers to take up in unpopular schools. When I was experiencing this, they actually minuted that they were making 120 offers for the bulge class at Holy Trinity (which then had very significant leadership problems) on the basis they expected a take up of 30.

However both Belleview and GEMS have clearly targeted an affluent borough with a shortage of school places. It did look as though Belleview at least was going to try to put together a quasi private proposition, and the Head at the Twickenham School has been Head in the private sector but now it is not clear what they are offering. The Head at Deer Park is from Lowther which is very much a school that aims to be a nurturing and inclusive community in the way Darrell used to be, I am not familiar with how it has evolved.

LProsser · 13/05/2015 18:39

Presumably the GEMS Twickenham school and the Bellevue "Deer Park" A316 school can open in their inadequate premises in September without planning consent under that rule that allows temporary use of a building as a free school for 12 months?

I note from the RTT that former councillor Virginia Morris still has Bluebell and Albion at Darrell (when not on the Ho Chi Min trail) so presumably she now falls into the category of people who have got over their disappointment and love Darrell?!

muminlondon2 · 13/05/2015 19:13

heathclif the OECD criticism of Sweden's schools went beyond methodology - it's reported in The Guardian as the need to take 'action to limit parents’ and pupils’ right to choose' :

'Schools began to compete no longer on delivering superior quality but on offering shiny school buildings in shopping centres, and I think that’s the issue we are really seeing.'

The report calls for 'higher salaries, better training, and tougher entry requirements for the teaching profession' and a more rigorous inspection regime.

Bellevue Place is offering essentially what Kunskappskolan offered in Sweden - a profit-led provider, non-standard buildings (I.e. office blocks), focus on delivery of lessons using IT, 'choice' in areas where that might impact existing provision.

The private school model does not work in the state sector because what you consider the advantages of a private offering - smaller class sizes, facilities, specialist arts or language teaching, selection by ability - are simply not available, sustainable or funded by state sector budgets, in view of the curriculum priorities and testing requirements. On top of that, they rely on teachers already trained/experienced thanks to the state sector but do not provide that level of professional accreditation themselves, so they are not giving back. Results are much less transparent in the private sector here because there are no SATS so the variability of that offering is covered up - it works by word of mouth, so unless Ofsted comes along, as in the case of Hill House, parents have no idea how good the school is.

GEMS has this 'no frills' approach that would work within state school budgets, but it has clearly not appealed in the UK private sector because it has had to close nearly all its prep schools. It had no 'excellence' or 'specialist' USP to offer as an alternative. In developing countries it has some ultra luxury schools (Kenya) where they did not exist, but otherwise works in captive markets where there are many ex-pats who can't access other schools, or where the infrastructure is very underdeveloped.

Most of the free school failures have been private school converters - I can give you a list, but those that have improved have often had LA help. IES Breckland was a Swedish for-profit school on a much more traditional model, opened by the GEMS manager in her former job. It was judged inadequate.

LProsser have wondered that myself about Cllr Morris. The examples I know of are recent, so there's definitely a lot of support within the school.

I notice Deer Park hasn't even got a logo (on its report anyway) compared to other schools. Perhaps it won't last long enough. Or with its intention to have another go at Ryde House, it might want to rebadge itself.

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muminlondon2 · 13/05/2015 19:17

... it might want to rebadge itself AGAIN. Or just try and open its second school ASAP before Ofsted starts to make judgements on the first.

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Heathclif · 13/05/2015 19:35

"so unless Ofsted comes along, as in the case of Hill House, parents have no idea how good the school is." Unless they read Mumsnet of course........ Grin

I totally agree that the private school model does not work in the state sector, and offering ""a private school education with no fees" (which I understand is also how the Head at St RR brands his school) is disingenuous (though St RR have found a way around the selection part of it).

And indeed the private school model doesn't always work in the private sector either, especially when parent's choices are guided by snobbery rather than getting down to the quality of the teaching etc. Hill House was evidently a case of the "Emperor's new clothes". Many of the parents in private schools though just want a good inspiring education for their children and are there because they were not given that opportunity in the state sector. I would guess that will be where at least some of the parents with no choice but these office block schools without any obvious added value will be headed.

Heathclif · 13/05/2015 19:48

Something else to chew on. P251 on is the report on the increased capital budget requirements being considered by Cabinet tomorrow. Interesting stuff especially on the St RR and Hampton Academy rebuilds. cabnet.richmond.gov.uk/documents/g3556/Public%20reports%20pack%20Thursday%2014-May-2015%2019.00%20Cabinet.pdf?T=10

It is not clear if the £4.1 mentioned for the Strathmore part of the St RR build / rebuild is to cover the cost of equipping it out but from what I can make out of the plans it is just on one floor of the main new building with some shared facilities, corridors etc. The other floors, a Science DT block and the Edwardian block which will be adapted and refurbished will serve the main Senior / Primary. Original estimates for the cost of the rebuild of St RR, can't remember if the addition of Strathmore had been added to the proposals at that point, was £5m. On the face of it either overall costs have increased massively (and it says the scale of the main school plans have had to be scaled back significantly) or LBRUT are paying a healthy contribution Hmm It would be interesting to know how the numbers add up / what they include/ how costs were shared. It is still good value in terms of Strathmore though.

And the Hampton Academy rebuild obviously did not go well.

AbsintheAndChips · 13/05/2015 20:48

I remember very well when Holy Trinity was hugely unpopular. It's funny how things can change so fast. I have lived in this area for a long long time, since I was a small child myself, and all the schools have had their ups and downs.

I would say that Darell is still an inclusive and nurturing school and little changed from what it was some years ago (my cousins all went to Darell so I know it from a long time back). I have heard good things about Lowther, so that's positive. But if you look at the kinds of things Deer Park says on its website, I slightly wonder what kind of school it will be. All children will wear a blazer and tie? I don't think that's very inclusive (or indeed nurturing or appropriate for small children), tbh.

I have seen Virginia Morris at Darell and she looks perfectly cheerful. I have not dared ask her what she thinks of the school, though I would quite like to.

BTW, everyone, it is Darell, not Darrell. I am really sorry to be picky - I can't help it!

muminlondon2 · 13/05/2015 22:56

Sorry to Darell - and to 'Christ's Church School', 'Waldergrave', 'Sir Richard Reynolds' and all the others mispronounced and misspelt.

This quote from Andreas Schleicher of the OECD is illuminating: 'the Swedish school system somehow seems to have lost its soul'.

Just because you put a headteacher into Deer Park from an inclusive community school doesn't put the spirit of Lowther into Deer Park School. Just by putting the ex-head of White Lodge into Twickenham Primary Academy doesn't make it a ballet school. Just putting children into blazers doesn't make them able readers. Or creative thinkers. Or even nicely behaved.

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Heathclif · 13/05/2015 23:51

Totally agree mum a good school is so much more than it's parts and needs a vision and aims that unite them all, and inspiring leadership that gets them there. That is why I think Turing will be a success, the parents I know certainly feel it is all in place. I am less convinced by the two others that will open in September but let's hope they get there, for the sake of the pupils.

Apologies Absinthe I assure you it was not for want of writing it out three times, many times when we appealed for a place. In my defence I am dyslexic so I can't help it either Wink

AbsintheAndChips · 14/05/2015 09:24

Yes, sorry for being picky. I do realise lots of things get misspelt but I have noticed that it is 90% of the time for Darell (obviously not just you two!) - so thanks for being nice about it!

Agree that outward trappings such as blazers are no reliable measure of what is going on internally. However, I do think opting for something like that (very unusual indeed at primary age these days) sends a clear message about what kind of school they are hoping to run.

LProsser · 14/05/2015 11:10

We probably all spell Darell wrong because we read Malory Towers books by Enid Blyton during our childhoods! (Heroine Darrell!)

I agree that ties and blazers for little ones are ridiculous and not very practical - presumably they are aiming to be selective by running a school that appeals to parents who wish they could afford the private sector but can only afford blazers. Although initially some of the parents will probably wish their children were somewhere else anyway. What happened about the idea it was going to be based at RACC initially which I could never quite understand as RACC is pretty busy?