New Secondary Schools for Richmond 2

[BayJay]

I'm starting this new thread because the other one of the same name has filled up.

Florist, I can confirm that the Sci & Eng Academy proposal is serious.

If you want to read exactly what Richard Dawkins said you can find it <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.com/url?q=www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/985509-Live-webchat-with-Richard-Dawkins-Wed-23-June-10am-11am/AllOnOnePage&sa=U&ei=Ts8QT9D6AYOU8gO_64nlAw&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNFhSP0Z-0I2VNLnQN8RNZXzt9m6FQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here on Mumsnet. The comments that you refer to (and which you misrepresent) are at Wed 23-Jun-10 10:37:24.

Ofsted completed an inspection at RPA on the 8 and 9 December 2011 to judge their progress in the first year as an academy. The report has now been been published www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/136208 and has concluded that RPA has made good progress towards raising standards. Congratulations to everyone at RPA for their hard work and efforts. If you are interested please also check the RPA Community Board Web Site communityboard4rpa.blogspot.com/

I (and I suspect others) would feel slightly less antagonised by the campaigners for a Catholic Secondary school if they didn't feel it necessary to repeatedly misrepresent the arguments of those opposing them.

There is a very genuine concern felt by RuT parents that there will be a shortfall in secondary places at any school, let alone one they would prefer. Time will tell whether it proves unfounded. Perhaps all the children currently entering reception in their ever growing numbers will end up earning scholarships to Eton or moving to the villages of Devon. But what happens if they don't?

School expansions are always difficult and unsettling. You only need to read the Hampton Wick facebook page linked to earlier to appreciate that. Sites suitable for new secondary schools are incredibly hard to come by in this borough. If another one can't be found, the only realistic option may be to expand the existing secondary schools. Is it really fair that children move from one building site to another throughout their education? Simply so that Catholics can have a shorter bus journey to school?

"simply so that Catholics can have a shorter bus journey to school"

I guess there is reason to feel antagonised on both sides LittleMrsMuppet when statements like yours are banded around - whether you believe it or not, this is about so much more than a shorter bus journey - it is about being able to get into a Catholic School; Catholic families are not exempt from birth rate increases - some of us will have no realistic catholic option in a few years.
It is also about wishing for our children to be able to continue to be educated in the borough that they live in.
It is about all of the other things that we have been discussing for the last decade, yes, even when the LibDems supported the opening of a Catholic Secondary School at the earliest opportunity.

I'd love to see that prospectus:"the children here are random collections of genes with no meaning and no purpose... we believe in the survival of the fittest and to the extent children and staff build a real school community it is only because that what works for survival...."

That has to be one of the most offensive remarks I've heard on either this thread or the other one.

Either you are really trying to be offensive or you really have no grasp of what humanism is or even what survival of the fittest actually means.

Just in case you genuinely don't understand It refers to species evolving so that those with the changes most suited to their environment (ie most fit for purpose) survive longer/ procreate more etc which in the long term results in changes to a species to make then survive better in their environment. Its why people living in hotter countries have darker skin. I'd like to think that your god wouldn't have a problem with that?

Humanists like myself (I can't speak for every one) believe that the good and bad that happen in the world is down to the choices that people make (and luck) and that if more people make good choices on the whole the world will be a better than than if they make poor choices. In my mind that is more conducive to developing a strong community than believing there is an outside influence which controls everything (to some degree or other) which you cannot influence.

It doesn't make me consider the catholic religion in a positive light when proponents of it seem to lack the ability to understand that people without a belief in a god can be every bit as community minded, fair thinking, ethical and public spirited and yes even as kind as any other person who does believe in a god.

seenbutnotheard - You cannot have it both ways.

Either the problem is that Catholic children are having to travel out of borough. Or the problem is that there is an increase in pupil numbers. If you consider that the most significant problem here is that there are not going to be enough Catholic places due to the increased birth rate, you then have to accept the central argument being made by the non-Catholic community. In which case, you need to justify why you consider it more important that Catholics should get first refusal on the new secondary.

LittleMrsMuppet - I think that you will find that the argument made in regards to distance and travelling to schools was initially made by the RISC campaign when it talked about Catholic Children having the choice of 8 schools within a five mile radius, or something like that. This is obviously not correct and gave a very distorted view of the current situation.

It is not an 'either / or' situation is it - can there not be a variety of reasons why we have, for the last decade been requesting (very patiently!!) a Catholic Secondary School? So, I don't think that it is the case of 'having it both ways'.

Please remember that Catholic Children and Richmond children too.

are Richmond Children too.

LittleMrsMuppet - Catholic children are not the only ones who have to travel out of borough or who do not get the consistency and continuity of education . In Richmond only 48% go from state primaries to state secondaries and that is 12% below the average in the 10 most prosperous London boroughs. Hence the problem is for everybody and we have 2 options here to solve it at the only site available at Clifden 1) Exclusive Catholic VA school at Clifden and please one minority group at the expense of others and damaging communal relations or 2) We all come together shoulder to shoulder and have a school ( whether a free science school or Catholic inclusive school ) that meets everybody's needs.

seenbutnotheard -

"The new school will ... enable local children, who currently have to travel long distances to access a Catholic school, to be educated nearer to home."

This is extracted from section 3 of the application by the Diocese of Westminster's application for consent to propose a Catholic VA school which gives the reasons for wanting to set up the new school.

As I have said before, if your concern is that there is going to be a shortage of Catholic places in neighbouring boroughs due to the increase in birthrate (there is not currently a shortage), then you have to also accept that this is a community wide problem.

I really can't understand what you hope to achieve by pretending that the journey to school is now suddenly irrelevant and an aside. I know that I wouldn't particularly want to send my child on several buses/trains to get to Gunnersbury either. It's an argument that everyone here will understand, so don't belittle it.

You misunderstand me, I am not belittling anything I was responding to your rather flippant "Simply so that Catholics can have a shorter bus journey to school" comment.

I was saying that this is a rather larger issue than simply distance travelled to school. There are, I think, a combination of factors, on both sides.

Kewcumber - I of course didn't say humanists can't be kind (nor that Christians can't be unkind) what I said was that the humanist notion of the "selfish gene" as a basis for such communities is not something that appears to me as attractive: it is utilitarian in concept - Catholics tend not to be utilitarian.

florist, you are misrepresenting humanists. There is not a "humanist notion of the selfish gene". Richard Dawkins is a Humanist. He also happened to write a book called 'The Selfish Gene' but it was about evolution, not humanism.

Everyone, lets not get into philosophical one-upmanship. There's plenty of that elsewhere on the web.

seenbutnotheard - you are playing down your best hand purely to disagree with me. That's just silly.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Why is it beyond resonable to think that there is more than one reason why the Catholic community would want this school?

Can you not see how your initial statement ("I (and I suspect others) would feel slightly less antagonised by the campaigners for a Catholic Secondary school if they didn't feel it necessary to repeatedly misrepresent the arguments of those opposing them.") holds true for both sides?

seenbutnotheard - there is no doubt or surprise that the Catholic community want a Catholic school. There are many reasons behind their aspiration. We have also seen genuine concerns and arguments against a Catholic VA school and an aspiration for inclusiveness in our society.

It is now for the Catholic community to decide whether they want to pursue this exclusive privilege or an integrated solution with the rest of the community.

Its good to see RPA are making progress Gmsing, so thanks for the link. I think a lot of people will be interested to see if Paul Hodgins sends his own son there in September, given how closely involved he has been in its improvements.

The recent RISC newsletter says:
? . . The Council and church consultations will run in parallel and they're currently working out the details:
? The Council's consultation is expected to run for 8 weeks starting later this month. The outcome will go for review to the Council's Education Overview & Scrutiny Committee and then to the Cabinet, which will make the final decision. This is the more important of the two consultations from our perspective.
? The church has a statutory duty to consult on the establishment of a new VA school. Their consultation will be in two phases: 4 weeks informal - perhaps including some sort of drop-in sessions - and 6 weeks formal. Total 10 weeks. We've no idea how this will work or how to engage with it . .
We don't yet know the details of the Council's consultation . . [it] has already said that this is "not a numbers game" and they will go ahead with the Catholic school even if there's a simple majority against it, on the basis of "defending minority interests" . . ?

Does the fact that Richmond's Director of Education Nick Whitfield is a board member of the Learning Schools Trust represent a conflict of interest? I suppose its a good thing in the sense that he is closely involved in the running of TA and HA, but how can that be balanced in this new competitive model where all schools are going to be academies? Is he able to be objective if free schools want to open in the vicinity of one of the LST schools? I don't know the answer, but its an interesting one to think about.

ABitTooCosy - Interesting pen portrait of Nick Whitfield in your link . I did not know he was a Catholic monk in Benedictine monastery as well as head of Religious education in St George´s Catholic School in Westminster

Details of the Diocese of Westminster consultation on the proposed primary and secondary schools are here.

So the Diocese will have 2 consultation phases - the informal will be from 20 Jan to 17 Feb. Does anyone have any knowledge of how this is run, who all can respond, how the results are made known to everybody etc ??
Also when is the LBRUT consultation ?

Jeev - according to the website there will be drop in sessions at St James's school on 24th Jan and at St Elizabeth's school on 7th Feb. There also will be an online consultation via website which starts tomorrow. All current details on www.rcdow.org. LBRUT will also be doing their own online consultation but I can't find out when that starts. As everything is posted on the web it must be open for anyone with an opinion.

According to the RTT, the council consultation starts tomorrow.

There are some details in the article about admissions:

Within the proposal, a third of the inset places at the primary school would be reserved for non-faith pupils ? a proportion secured into the secondary school and into the sixth form.

The secondary school would follow the Catholic admissions criteria for voluntary aided schools, where Catholics will be given priority places.

In terms of numbers, one third of the primary places represents 10 children. Those children would be able to continue on to the Secondary school. That means that the remaining 140 secondary places would be prioritised for practising Catholic families.

The offer of only 10 out of 150 places is a gimmick and further adds insult to our injury