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New Secondary Schools for Richmond 2

999 replies

BayJay · 27/11/2011 18:21

I'm starting this new thread because the other one of the same name has filled up.

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LottieProsser · 07/01/2012 20:42

I see that there is now another free school proposal for the Clifden Road site - a science and engineering Academy with inclusive admissions which is asking parents to register if they are interested:
sciengschool4richmond.btck.co.uk/

Jeev · 07/01/2012 22:40

Thanks LottieProsser - great to see a 5 form of entry inclusive secondary academy with a science and engineering specialism free school proposal. I have registered on sciengschool4richmond.btck.co.uk/ and would like to get more information.

seenbutnotheard · 07/01/2012 23:47

Anyone know who is behind this new Free School proposal? Usually Free School's have a "who are we?" type section which shows their 'leaders' so to speak.
They have quite a lot of RISC information, so wondered if some of RISC's more prominent supporters are in their ranks.

Obviously I am delighted that we have (at last) got to the stage of consultation and pray that there is a favourable outcome.

ChrisSquire · 08/01/2012 01:10

Here is a working link.

BayJay · 08/01/2012 07:36

Happy New Year seenbutnotheard, and welcome back.

I'm happy to declare an interest as being on the steering group for the Sci & Eng school idea. I've fed in ideas from this thread, and I'm happy to continue to do that, and to field any questions. Its operating separately from RISC, and its at a very early stage at the moment. RISC are obviously pleased to see an alternative vision for the site emerge, and have passed on the information to their supporters. However, they would do that for any other inclusive options that emerged too.

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akhan · 08/01/2012 07:39

So will hodgins offer the opportunity of the clifden road site to the science academy as well? He welcomes all new free schools
The consultation needs to offer all possible school options for clifden . Council should show independence and objectivity and give all sides equal opportunity to present their case

BayJay · 08/01/2012 08:25

Akhan, the Sci & Eng Academy doesn't yet have a sponsor, so its obviously not at such an advanced stage as the Catholic School option. Other ideas may yet come forward. The council have no obligation to include any of them in their consultation. If the consultation did ultimately conclude that people wanted a community option, then the logical thing to do would be to open the site to competition from the Academy sector, so other ideas may come forward at that stage.

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akhan · 08/01/2012 09:34

Will the consultation offer option of community school at clifden or consider the results of linked school - how can it be genuine otherwise ????

BayJay · 08/01/2012 10:05

Akhan, we will have to wait to see the council's consultation. However, I think they are very aware that people will be watching closely to see how it is conducted.

At the last broadcast council meeting Paul Hodgins said that it would be a full and fair consultation. He also said that they would be asking people not only "what" they want, but also "why" they want it. I think that is significant to how the result of the consultation will be determined. For instance if a large number of people say they don't want a Catholic school because they are opposed to faith schools in principle, then the council would probably say that they respect that view but don't agree with it. If a large number of people say they want a community school because they are worried about a lack of provision in the future they could point to their (disputed) forecasts as reassurance. Similarly, if a large number of Catholics say they want a Catholic school because they don't currently have any links to local primary schools, they would (hopefully) take that as reassurance that the outcome of the Linked School consultation may alleviate their concerns.

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akhan · 08/01/2012 12:05

Bayjay - u seem to have a lot of trust in the council to do this properly. The past and even recent track record of what goes into them and the manner in which they are conducted is discouraging. They not even waiting to see the results of the linked in consultation. If they really want to do this properly they should have the contents and timing of consultation agreed.

BayJay · 08/01/2012 15:21

Akhan, I'm prepared to keep an open mind, that's all. There's no benefit in doing otherwise.

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muminlondon · 08/01/2012 19:55

A science and engineering academy in Twickenham sounds brilliant and would fulfil a genuine need - for inclusive places and for the new James Dysons of the future. Especially if the idea is coming from parents rather than managers or ex-staff of private schools. I'd love to see this idea develop.

seenbutnotheard · 08/01/2012 20:49

BayJay, I had wondered if you were involved in this.

So, how far have you got? Yours would be one of the largest Free Schools in England I think (I know that there is another 5 form entry one in Bristol, but not aware of any others) Have you got anyone in mind to run it - I think that you will need to demonstrate a wealth of experience and a very thorough business plan to get it off the ground - have you considered a smaller school?

florist · 08/01/2012 23:26

Glad to see my suggestion for a free school alternative for Richmond to be up and running, although clearly only in its very early stages. I assume that this is not a spoiler for the Catholic school possiblility on the Clifden site which seems to be well advanced with of course a well funded sponsor.

BayJay · 08/01/2012 23:31

seenbutnotheard, a Free School is just an Academy that is promoted by a parent or teacher group, so there are no limits on size. As you know, Free Schools are a relatively new concept, so its not surprising that there aren't a huge number of them. There are 3 different models for setting one up, and ours would use the Sponsor Model. With that model, the steering group define the vision, and promote the school, gathering evidence of demand. They then engage a sponsor, who takes the idea forward and prepares the application. We have defined our vision, and are starting to promote it and seek a sponsor, so its at a very early stage.

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BayJay · 08/01/2012 23:37

florist - I don't think the Diocese of Westminster have much to worry about at this stage.

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ChrisSquire · 09/01/2012 00:54

Florist: this initiative is not a ?spoiler?: ?Journalism. A news story or other newspaper item published to spoil the impact of and divert attention from a related item published elsewhere. Also used transf. in other news media, or to denote an event which is intended to generate news coverage with a similarly distracting effect.? (OED).

It is a reminder of the path not taken as a result of a deliberate choice to press ahead with the offers to the RCs; a path that would have led to an open and free competition between alternative sponsors of a new secondary school; a path that will be mandatory for all new schools when clause 37 of the Education Act 2011 comes into force: ? . . (1) If a local authority in England think a new school needs to be established in their area, they must seek proposals for the establishment of an Academy.? See: ChrisSquire Mon 28-Nov-11 14:06:20.

LottieProsser · 09/01/2012 20:06

I don't have any confidence in the Conservatives running the Council. Even if the consultation is reasonably objective in the questions it asks they have already made up their minds about what the outcome is going to be and they are the ones making the decision. It's absolutely bizarre that a group of parents have to come together and hawk their proposals around the private sector in order to stand any chance of getting a secondary school that will admit all the local children, especially the boys, in North Teddington, Fulwell and South Twickenham who are going to be left in the lurch after 2014. Removing the linked schools criteria for Teddington and Orleans Park is only going to increase the number of children in that area with nowhere to go. There isn't any other suitable local site large enough for a secondary school as we all know - unless Bay Jay is going to persuade an oil company to build one on Fulwell Golf Course!

LottieProsser · 12/01/2012 20:13

I found this interesting exchange on the subject of forecasting how many school places are needed on the Facebook page of the "Hampton Wick parents against Avenue Centre private development" They are trying to get Richmond Council to use the site of the derelict Avenue Centre opposite for school expansion rather than cramming 50% extra children onto the current site. A parent wrote to Matthew Paul of LB Richmond Education Dept. querying various aspect so the development and has pasted the replies. I see Mr Paul says here that school place planning is an art not a science!

"Parent: Spectacularly bad forecasting by Richmond Council of the number of school places required and a very poor response as to why this is so. I cannot accept that there are too many variables for an accurate forecast and that you seem to have been surprised by the number of families moving into or having children in the new Sandy Lane development. Surely any developer will say that they anticipate less families to avoid paying the Council more money towards education? Furthermore with recent developments in Langdon Park, Tremarton Close, the development at the Langdown-Down hospital, the Shell garage redevelopment and now the Avenue Centre - will that not place even more pressure on school places? The plans seem to fulfill current needs for the next few years but how soon before even those places will be under pressure.
Matthew Paul: Whilst you are of course entitled to your opinion, school place planning is perhaps more difficult than you might perceive. We knew that there would indeed be some children in the recent housing developments who would need school places, but much greater factors (so far) for exacerbating demand for places at HWINS in such a short space of time have been: the increased birth rate (up 30% between 2002 and 2008), the economic downturn and the school?s well-deserved reputation for excellence. Of those factors, the one that has arguably played the biggest part in the last year or so is the state of the economy and its impact upon parents? ability (or not) to (a) consider private education for their child/ren and (b) to move to a larger property ? either within the local area or elsewhere ? as their family grows. Although we know how many children were born in the area four years before a Reception intake, we can never know for sure in advance of the intake the number of those children who have moved out of the area; how many have moved in since that time; and, of the total number of children living in the area at the time of application, how many might end up in private schools and/or might move out of the area. We can and do track the percentage of children who don?t end up needing local state-maintained primary school places, but sometimes that percentage can changes in an unforeseen way. Ultimately, even with excellent data and good intelligence, both at a borough-wide and more local level, re admission and socioeconomic patterns, school place planning can be more of an art than a science. Most of the time, I believe that we manage our school place planning responsibility well and in a timely fashion."

Jeev · 13/01/2012 09:41

Unfortuantely Matthew Paul has been too focussed on art and that creativity led to 60 students who did not get primary places in Sep 2011 to sit at home for 3 months . So with due respect a bit more of science and rigour in primary school projections will help. When there are so many complexities and uncertainities, it is only prudent to evaluate different scenarios and factor in possible risks. Instead what the Council did with the Secondary school predictions, was that it only showed those scenarios that suited the justification fo Catholic school as a viable option for Clifden Road. I do respect the fact that being a Catholic, Matthew is very symphatetic to the Catholic school plans. However in his position of Head for Schools commission he should show greater objectivity and independence and prudence in developing the school places predictions and strategy. A little bit of science will help!

BayJay · 13/01/2012 10:00

Jeev, it is not appropriate to publicly speculate about a council officer's objectivity. If you have concerns I suggest you contact Democratic Services.

I agree that the forecasting of school places can, and should, be approached rigorously. Assumptions should be clearly identified, and each assumption should have an associated risk analysis. A combined risk analysis could then lead to best-case and worst-case scenarios. That has not been done.

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ChrisSquire · 13/01/2012 10:35

This is the Facebook page: [[http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hampton-Wick-Parents-Against-Avenue-Centre-Private-Development/253154361409237
Hampton Wick parents against Avenue Centre private development.]]

akhan · 13/01/2012 16:32

Richmond council must be the most controversial reading the rtt today there are so many issues heatham, clifden , twick station ,hampton wick , maharishi etc . Seems like our council officers need a wake up call. The Tories do not listen or talk just act and the Lib Dems only listen and talk but do not act. It is no surprise people have lost faith in the council and are campaigning .

florist · 13/01/2012 20:52

Chris Squires - I am confused. Is the free school initiative a genuine initiative or just, in your words, "a reminder of a path not taken..." or in my definition a spoiler tactic. Bayjay seems to think it is not serious.

Secondly, you talk about the "offers to the RC" - surely it is the othher way round that the Catholic church (it doesn't refer to itself as Roman) is offering to fund the refurb of a school and perform ongoing management.

I thought I had read that Prof Richard Dawkins was planning a humanist school - I'd love to see that prospectus:"the children here are random collections of genes with no meaning and no purpose... we believe in the survival of the fittest and to the extent children and staff build a real school community it is only because that what works for survival...."

LottieProsser · 13/01/2012 21:19

I think by "a reminder of the path not taken" Chris meant that if Richmond Council was not trying to get around the Education Act's new provisions which say that there must be an open process when a new school is needed there would have been a chance for other bidders to make offers to run a school on the Clifden site. I didn't read BayJay as saying the free school group wanting a science and engineering college were not serious, just that they were at an early stage in the development of the project. The Council does seem to be following that open process in Hampton where the Maharishi school is now being joined by a second bidder, the C of E. Perhaps if the Council were to decide to throw open the Clifden site to other offers as a result of the consultation the Maharishi school might find it of interest too as it is a much larger, more accessible and nicer site than the Oldfield one and in an area where secondary school places are going to be needed sooner than in Hampton?