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New Secondary Schools for Richmond 2

999 replies

BayJay · 27/11/2011 18:21

I'm starting this new thread because the other one of the same name has filled up.

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LottieProsser · 21/04/2012 21:45

Little Miss Muppett - with regard to priest's references I've been told many times by Catholic friends that the priest at Sacred Heart church in Teddington is much tougher about signing the entry form than the priest at St Theodore's in Hampton and that is partly why so many children at Sacred Heart are from Hampton or Hampton Hill, especially given the primary school places crisis in the Station Road area of Hampton where St Theodore's church is situated. I have heard quite a few people in Teddington say they would like the choice of a very small school like Sacred Heart (one form of entry as opposed to the other Teddington primaries which are three or four forms) but it's generally considered impossible to get into if you live in Teddington unless you come from a Catholic country or are a very very regular church goer. Yes, many of the children offered a bulge class place at Sacred Heart will not be Catholic but no doubt they will all be counted as in need of a Catholic secondary school place! I have not seen any discussion of how many of the children in Catholic primary schools in LBRuT are actually not Catholic so would not be eligible for the Catholic Secondary School - has anyone investigated?

Cat2405 · 22/04/2012 09:55

Yes, I provided the most recent figures for the number of baptised Catholics in each of the Catholic primaries in either this thread, the earlier thread or the local thread. I'll try and find them... they're around here somewhere... Confused

Cat2405 · 22/04/2012 10:41

Here's a link to my previous post regarding previous number of baptised Catholic pupils in each of the borough Catholic primaries, and the discussions that followed, here.

Some of the links no longer work, so I shall link directly to the most recent figures/updated locations:

St Edmunds's 94% (November 2006)

St Elizabeth's 98% (November 2006)

St James' 97% (May 2008)

St Mary Magdalene's 88% (June 2008)

St Osmund's 80% (November 2008)

Sacred Heart 95% (March 2012)

Jeev · 22/04/2012 10:59

Thanks it should be possible to get the latest figures fromthe RC primaries ? I was surprised to not see it in any of the consultations

muminlondon · 22/04/2012 14:11

You could compare some of these figures with the consultation document, and numbers that supposedly transferred to Catholic secondaries in 2007

               <strong>2007 "transferred to Catholic schools" (% catholic)</strong>

St Edmund's 95% (94% November 2006)
St Osmund's 82% (80% November 2008)

Although private schools (mostly non-Catholic) were included in a lot of the other totals without any indication of whether a Catholic school place was offered initially and rejected.

ChrisSquire · 23/04/2012 18:00

RISC have decided to defer their legal challenge until after 24th May, when the Cabinet is due to take its decision. The original timing was dictated by the 3 month limit on the time between their decision (effectively taken in February) not to seek proposals for an Academy/Free School, as required by the 2012 Act and the first steps towards a Judicial Review.

The Council claim that the challenge is premature as they haven?t made any decision about the Clifden Road site or the Catholic school. RISC have now been advised that they will not be out of time if they wait for the May 23d decision. Perhaps the Council will get cold feet and come up with a convincing excuse for deferring the whole matter for months . .

gmsing · 25/04/2012 05:18

Views of candidates in North Richmond Council by-election
There's a Council by-election in North Richmond Ward on 3rd May. RISC asked each of the five candidates to answer two questions related to the Catholic school issue: (1) Do you agree that the Clifden Road site should be used for an inclusive community school or schools? (2) Do you agree with Vince Cable and Michael Gove that, if there is to be a Catholic Voluntary Aided school, 50% of the places should be open on a "non-faith" basis?
You can see their answers here: www.richmondinclusiveschools.org.uk/files/view/other-useful-documents/N.Richmond_by_election_candidate_responses.pdf

ChrisSquire · 25/04/2012 11:49

The Catholic school issue has not so far featured in the by-election campaign, which is a contest between Stephen Speak seeking to retain the seat for the Tories and former councillor Jane Dodds who lost by 19 votes in May 2010. She writes: . . The Liberal Democrats therefore propose that the Clifden Road site should be reserved for a new 5 form entry community school to be opened in 2016. The school would have to be an Academy. The Council would have to find a suitable sponsor and then apply to the Government for capital for converting the buildings back to a school . .

The main issue has been the third runway at Heathrow and the Tories' alleged secret plans to back it.

If the Lib Dems win the council will be Tory 29 v. Lib Dem 25, so no change of control but an unwelcome reminder to the Tories that they will have to account to the electors for their actions in two years' time - and that their lead in the popular vote last time was small: 44 % to 42 %. They were buoyed up by the 'Zac factor' on the Surrey side in 2010 which will be lacking in 2014; on the Middlesex side they need to hang onto their councillors in what have long been strong Lib Dem wards : St Margaret's, Riverside, Whitton and Heathfield.

So expect a more cautious approach from now on.

ChrisSquire · 25/04/2012 12:44

The last time a sitting Tory council won in Richmond was in 1982 - it was a tie and they lost control in a by-election in November 1983.

TheMagicFarawayTree · 25/04/2012 13:25

Chris - would you like to start another thread if you just want to make party political points?

Jeev · 25/04/2012 15:00

I believe that the Twickenham, Thomson and Hampton free school applications have progressed to the next round and will have their interviews with DfE next month. What about Maharishi and Richmond free school applications ?

wimpykid · 25/04/2012 15:04

Thank you MagicFarawayTree - I was about to say something similar myself but you got there first. I don't think this forum should become a platform for Lib Dem campaigning.

Jeev · 25/04/2012 15:22

or for that matter for any political party's campaigning

BayJay · 25/04/2012 17:29

The Maharishi Facebook Page says they have an interview too. Not sure if Richmond Free School submitted a proposal or not, as their website has been down for a while.

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ChrisSquire · 26/04/2012 12:56

As far as I recall, the interview is not a ?second round? but is required if the applicant has given incomplete or insufficient details in their application. No applications have been rejected at this stage.

What remains unclear is the point of adding to the pile of approved applications that have no site or prospect of a site. The TES reported on April 13: Half of 2012 free schools have not secured a site:

Michael Gove?s flagship free-schools policy was said to be in ?disarray? by its critics this week, as it was revealed that just half of the schools due to open this September have secured a site. The education secretary announced in October that 79 of the state-funded independent schools had been approved to open at the beginning of the next academic year, but doubts are now being expressed over how many will be ready in time.

Responding to a parliamentary question put forward by shadow education secretary Stephen Twigg at the request of TES, schools minister Nick Gibb admitted that only ?around half? of the free schools had found a suitable site. Finding premises is proving particularly difficult in London and the South East, where buildings and land are expensive and hard to come by.

?The government?s approach to school buildings is chaotic,? Mr Twigg said. ?First, the government cut the education building budget by nearly two- thirds - twice the average of other departments. Second, they have delayed their own so-called priority building programme three times. And now their free schools policy is floundering. I urge the government to think again and address the real need in the system, where there is an urgent shortage of primary school places,? he added.

More than £330 million has been spent on the government?s free schools and academies programmes since the coalition came to power, figures released by the NUT show. . . The union also revealed that 126 full-time equivalent staff at the Department for Education are working on the free schools programme, despite just 24 being open . .

BayJay · 26/04/2012 13:30

What remains unclear is the point of adding to the pile of approved applications that have no site or prospect of a site

The point is that this is the government's flagship education policy and they're determined to open as many successful free schools as possible while they're in office. Some will inevitably have site issues.

Here is some information about the Free School application process. Your statement about the reasons groups are called to interview isn't correct. Groups that get through the intitial screening process will be called to interview. Its not clear what the screening criteria are.

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ChrisSquire · 26/04/2012 14:23

Thanks for clarifying that point: it seems that if you aren?t called for interview you have indeed ?failed? but you won?t have that confirmed until later in the year.

Nick Gibb?s reply to Stephen Twigg was actually more positive than the TES reports: (holding answer 13 March 2012) Around half of the free schools due to open in September 2012 have confirmed sites, and negotiations on a preferred site are under way for the large majority of the other projects. At the same stage last year, under half of free schools had confirmed sites.

Here?s the latest exchange: Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby, Labour): To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many free schools he expects to open in September 2013.

Nick Gibb (Minister of State (Schools), Education; Bognor Regis and Littlehampton, Conservative) holding answer 23 April 2012: The application round for groups hoping to open free schools in 2013 and beyond closed in February this year. The applications are currently being assessed and the results will be announced by the Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Friend Michael Gove, in the summer. The successful applications will join nine schools that are already in pre-opening phase and due to open in September 2013.

BayJay · 26/04/2012 15:58

Talking of free schools, the New Local School for Twickenham has just relaunched its website with more information about its proposal.

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ChrisSquire · 26/04/2012 17:32

The (proposed Free) New Local School for Twickenham has re-launched their website with a new look and lots of new detail from their proposal. They write:
. . At our interview the DfE will ask how many additional parents have registered since we submitted our application, so we?d like to push the numbers up even further before then. We know some people were cautious about signing up before they had more information, so we hope our new website will answer many of their questions.

Proposed name: Clifden School - if they get the site.

The Catholic bid has as yet no web presence, I think. I wonder why not? They are definitely missing a trick by hiding their light under a bushel.

Jeev · 26/04/2012 20:44

BayJay - Appreciate this is govt's flagship scheme but we are back in recession and there will be more pressure on funding and sites. So whilst I would love to see all our 4 Richmond free schools applications succeeding, I am pessimistic about all of them opening. Kingston is still not getting the funding and are many others waiting ahead in the queue.
Chris - The Catholic group have a web site www.richmondcatholicsecondary.co.uk/index.html

However their support is galvanised through the 6 Catholic primaries and Churches. Through them they are very quickly able to muster support in the Catholic community. Of course one can argue that they have not bothered to reach out to the wider community or win them over with a compromise solution.
Some people were cautious supporting the Twickenham free school either because they did not want it to be a spoiler for the Catholic school or were hoping for a 50-50 compromise solution. However Clifden school could now be the preferred option, following recent events including today's BBC's story on Welsh govt's investigation into CES.

ChrisSquire · 26/04/2012 21:01

Jeev: thanks for the Catholic link; it was indeed 'reaching out to the wider community' I was thinking of, particularly given the widespread ignorance of and prejudice against their religion - particularly amongst those who come from a Nonconformist family background but have no religion themselves.

Who or what is CES?

BayJay · 26/04/2012 21:10

I am pessimistic about all of them opening
I agree it is unlikely that all of them will open. The Government is likely to want to spread the free school budget around the country so I'd be surprised if we got more than one primary and one secondary.

The North Kingston school is in a completely different queue, which is disadvantaged by being a hangover from the previous government.

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BayJay · 26/04/2012 21:14

p.s. I think Jeev was referring to this story about the Catholic Education Service.

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LottieProsser · 26/04/2012 23:17

I thought the Catholic church's possible approach to looking after gay teenagers was one of the many things we weren't allowed to talk about! I don't suppose it will have any effect on the Tories in Richmond. Did they only write to schools in Wales? The BBC story is not very clear.

ChrisSquire · 27/04/2012 00:50

The Guardian ran this story as Catholic church urges pupils to sign anti-gay marriage petition:

? . . A pupil at St Philomena's Catholic high school for girls in Carshalton, in the south London borough of Sutton, told the website PinkNews.co.uk that children aged 11 to 18 had been encouraged to sign the anti-equality pledge by their headteacher.

She said: "In our assembly for the whole sixth form you could feel people bristling as she explained parts of the letter and encouraged us to sign the petition. It was just a really outdated, misjudged and heavily biased presentation."

She said some pupils had responded by buying Gay Pride badges to pin to their uniforms. "There are several people in my year who aren't heterosexual ? myself included ? and I for one was appalled and actually disgusted by what they were encouraging," she said. "After all, that's discrimination they were urging impressionable people to engage in, which is unacceptable." . . ?