New Secondary schools for Richmond!

[BayJay]

Richmond Council recently published a White Paper outlining plans for Secondary education in the borough (cabnet.richmond.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=23719). They want new 6th forms in every school, and would need to decrease current Yr7 intakes to accomodate that. To offset those decreases they are talking about creating two new secondary schools. One of those new schools would be a Roman Catholic school.

The Roman Catholic community in the borough are currently disadvantaged by the "link" system (www.st-marys.richmond.sch.uk/Newsletter%20Link%20letter%20for%202011%20links%20(2).pdf). Because the Catholic primaries are not linked to any secondaries in the borough, their children tend to go to a combination of out-of-borough Catholic secondaries (which are mostly rated as Outstanding), grammar schools and private schools, though some of the girls do go to Waldegrave, which is not part of the link system. Note that there is no reason, in principle, why the Catholic Secondaries couldn't be linked to local community schools, but because many of their children have other options, they simply don't meet the "25% rule" required to form a link. (See an example set of transfer figures at www.st-james.richmond.sch.uk/Admin/Uploads/Docs/StJamesSchool_Parents_NewsLetter_270910.pdf).

This raises several questions in my mind:

1. Does the problem necessarily need to be solved by providing a Catholic Secondary, or are there alternative solutions that would benefit the community as a whole (e.g. reforming the link system)?
2. Does the majority of the Catholic community specifically want to be educated separately from the rest of us, or is it the case that, like everyone else, they simply want an outstanding education for their children, and find that the Catholic route is often the best way of achieving that?
3. If Catholics had more options for transferring to outstanding community schools locally (as many already do, to Waldegrave), would they choose those options over travelling to a single-faith school in a neighbouring borough?
4. I accept that there will always be very religious people who want to segregate themselves, but would I be right in asserting that there are also large numbers of Catholics who would be happy to attend community schools, provided that gave them the same level of academic excellence that can be found in many Catholic options?
5. If a new Catholic secondary school is created, it is likely to have an entrance policy that requires a priest's reference (as per the majority of existing Catholic schools). How do people feel about that?
6. If a state-funded Catholic School is created in the borough, would non-Catholic parents also like the option of sending their children there, provided they weren't barred by the admission system?

I'd be interested to hear your opinions!

seenbutnotheard, that is a pretty offensive thing to say ("I feel people should be careful about who they align themselves with"). Don't forget that respect for people's lack of belief is covered by Human Rights law to the same extent as respect for people's beliefs.

RISC supporters are from many backgrounds. They probably wouldn't all agree on many things, but they do agree on the wording of the RISC petition.

Sorry BayJay, but I don't think that suggesting that people need to be careful that they agree with the philosophy of an organisation that is the backbone of a campaign (that has the potential to effect lots of schools) is offensive.

If the Humanist organisation had it's way, your children would not be attending the school they currently do, which I am assuming you chose for a variety of reasons, other than it's outstanding status.

I have many friends who have signed the RISC petition and who have been surprised to learn of its background and know nothing of the Humanist agenda, just as I personally know Humanists who fundamentally believe in the campaign to end Faith Schools. I am not making a judgement on that; I just don't agree with it. We are still friends, can still have dinner, debate and learn from each others point of view.

Seenbutnotheard, the BHA is not the backbone of the campaign. The campaign is supported by the Accord Coalition who campaign for reform of faith school policy, rather than the abolition of faith schools. The BHA are a member of Accord, but so is Ecclesia (the Christian think tank), the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, British Muslims for a Secular Democracy, the General Assembly of Unitarian and Free Christian Churches, The Runnymede Trust, and others.

I realise that it is the South West London Humanist Group, not the BHA, but the ethos is, as far as I am aware from speaking to two of its members, the same.

I do also know that the Accord Coalition support the RISC, but they are not organising it.

Should be an interesting debate this evening.

This duty to provide a Catholic education for our children seems a peculiarly Anglo Saxon requiremen. Not so in Catholic Italy and France, we did catechism and preparation for Sacraments out of school time at the parish church. Schools are for education and learning and secular, anyone who wants their schooling to be faith based has to go private - very few do. Don't really understand how British Catholics can expect the state to fund schooling for a minority religion when Catholic countries don't even do so!

Seenbutnotheard, the leader of RISC is also the leader of SW London Humanists, but he is running RISC as an inclusive campaign, rather than a Humanist campaign. That is exactly why it has so much support. The Accord Coalition are endorsing the campaign and would not have agreed to do so if they thought it wasn't in line with their coalition's principles.

I am inclined to think that education should be secular as well, and I do happen to be religious in my private life.

who on earth is MsB?

The RISC proposal is different to the Humanist position - the RISC campaign is for inclusivity anti state financed religious education.

I haven't met a person yet supporting RISC (except Jeremy!) who is a humanist and you make it sound like supporters are idiots who haven;t actually read what they signed up to. The RISC petition is quite clear and by signing it that what your friends have signed up to, not the humanist agenda. No need to make it sound like anyone who supports RISC is becoming a humanist by stealth - they aren't the Masons !

The BHA position is that religious instruction shouldn't be state funded. However, they are in favour of high quality religious education, which includes education about all world religions as well as non-religious viewpoints such as Buddism and Humanism. That is in line with the National Framework for RE (which is currently non-statutory).

The official RISC position is inline with Accord, i.e. that state funded schools should have inclusive admissions, non-discriminatory employment policies, and an RE syllabus inline with the National Framework (and inspected by OFSTED).

However, the RISC petition is only focussing on the admissions angle.

Sorry that did't make sense

"The RISC proposal is different to the Humanist position - the RISC campaign is for inclusivity, the humanists are anti state financed religious education."

Kewcumber your statement that "the humanists are anti state financed religious education" is not correct. The BHA are anti state financed religious instruction, which is different to religious education (which they support). Plus, that is a BHA position only. The BHA don't represent all humanists, and not all humanists who are members of the BHA agree on everything (in the same way that not all Catholics agree with the Pope on everything).

p.s. Here is a link to the BHA's education policy. That's just for info. The BHA is not directly associated with RISC, whose position is in line with the Accord Coalition.

seenbutnotheard - people from all faiths support RISC because they want all to ensure that everyone in the borough is allowed to attend a state funded school.

Bayjay, your statement that 'the RISC petition is only focussing on the admissions angle' is not totally correct...they may just on their petition form state that, but on their website, that they try to steer everyone to, there are constant statements comparing what they feel an education 'should' be like for our children comparing it to what the Catholic Schools teach. And these statements they make against the Catholic Schools are quite damning and full of inaccuracies. Also, they have a 'what our supporters say' link which is filled with Anti-Catholic statements.
How can they pretend they are only interested in the admissions angle!!

Hello priviet. The RISC petition is focussing on the admissions angle. The wider campaign is officially in line with the position of Accord. The petition, and the wider campaign, have supporters from many backgrounds, who are supporting it for a host of different reasons. Some of those reasons are reflected in the What Supporters Say page that you refer to, and people will have to make their own judgement on whether they agree with them or not.

Perhaps you could say which parts of the RISC homepage you think are innacurate, and maybe someone from the campaign could address those concerns specifically.

Kewcumber, I suspect MsB is the headteacher of St Elizabeths, and h2ohno was referring to your comment at [Tue 01-Nov-11 11:41:15].

Does anyone have the wording of the Conservative Amendment that was passed at tonight's Special Council Meeting?

why would you name specific head teachers on a website? I thought she was talking about another poster - and I don't find it particularly harsh to say that any of the heads of Catholic primaries have applied a three line whip? surely on the whole they have from what I have seen - why wouldn't they? Presumably they are devout catholics themselves and would welcome a catholic secondary.

bayjay - thanks for sharing the link on RISC what supporters say page. The statements are only anti exclusion admissions policy and there is a calid point there, they are not anti catholic. Priviet - pls explain specifically what you consider anti catholic on that page.

Bayjay, what i am saying is that if a 'campaign' is asking people (at railway stations, parks,cafes, outside random schools etc etc) to sign a petition solely on an admissions policy, then why are they (on there homepage) stating 6 reasons why an inclusive school would be better for the borough, following nearly every statement with a sentence or two against Catholic School practices? i know they are not telling all the people they ask to support them all their issues, which are anti-Catholic. If it was not anti-Catholic and about admissions only, then there is no need to have statements about the Catholic Faith on their site, and especially not a whole page (supporters page) dedicated to why the Catholic faith is bad for children in schools!!

Kewcumber, I'm guessing, but I think its because of your name. She assumed you were referring to the Catholic primary in Kew.

Kewcumber - they have indeed. They've even been encouraging the children to sign the petition...

Hi Priviet, the 6 reasons I think you are referring to on the Homepage are:

1. Fair Admissions (because RISC want inclusive admissions rather than the non-inclusive admission policies of VA schools)
2. Best Teachers and Fair Employment (beacuse all VA schools have an opt-out of equalities legislation when employing teachers)
3. Fair Curriculum (in line with the position of Accord who want all schools to "be made accountable under a single inspection regime for RE, Personal, Social & Health Education (PSHE) and Citizenship")
4. Quality, because schools can be of high quality without being faith schools
5. Funding, because VA schools do not receive the levels of funding from the church that many people believe them to receive.
6. Community Cohesion, because a VA school would not be open to the wider community

Those 6 aims seem reasonable to me (though I might have explained them differently if I'd been writing the text). What is it that you think is innacurate?

I am sorry but how anyone can seriously say that JR does not have a humanist agenda has not got their eyes open. Why would he set up the RISC campaign otherwise? What are his true reasons and interest? He lives in the catchment area for Orleans but choses to send his children to private school I believe. How is a private school an inclusive education? Inclusive is more than religion, culture it is also from a variety of social and economic backgrounds, it is boys and girls getting equality of education it is many many things not just faith .The RISC agenda is NOT about true inclusivity it has a narrow agenda and i really really think that those who have signed up simply because they want a debate on the Clifden site need to disband and set up a group that is just about the Clifden site and distance themselves from intolerance.
There are I believe a lot of very good people out there who have been duped by this campaign in so many ways. Remember this is all of our community and we are all passionate about the schooling of our children and we at the end of the day are all parents. The RISC agenda does not carry any borough wide benefits. If you are a non catholic you are not suddenly going to get into this school if you are outiside of Twickenham or live on the other side of the A316 if it is a community school rather than a VA school. Admissions will go on distance so those in central twick will have 3 lovely schools and the rest of us will have nothing. What needs to happen here is the continued improvement of all of our local schools so that our academies become places of choice. Are we to become an intolerant and divided community to benefit one group only, those in Twickenham ?