New Secondary schools for Richmond!

[BayJay]

Richmond Council recently published a White Paper outlining plans for Secondary education in the borough (cabnet.richmond.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=23719). They want new 6th forms in every school, and would need to decrease current Yr7 intakes to accomodate that. To offset those decreases they are talking about creating two new secondary schools. One of those new schools would be a Roman Catholic school.

The Roman Catholic community in the borough are currently disadvantaged by the "link" system (www.st-marys.richmond.sch.uk/Newsletter%20Link%20letter%20for%202011%20links%20(2).pdf). Because the Catholic primaries are not linked to any secondaries in the borough, their children tend to go to a combination of out-of-borough Catholic secondaries (which are mostly rated as Outstanding), grammar schools and private schools, though some of the girls do go to Waldegrave, which is not part of the link system. Note that there is no reason, in principle, why the Catholic Secondaries couldn't be linked to local community schools, but because many of their children have other options, they simply don't meet the "25% rule" required to form a link. (See an example set of transfer figures at www.st-james.richmond.sch.uk/Admin/Uploads/Docs/StJamesSchool_Parents_NewsLetter_270910.pdf).

This raises several questions in my mind:

1. Does the problem necessarily need to be solved by providing a Catholic Secondary, or are there alternative solutions that would benefit the community as a whole (e.g. reforming the link system)?
2. Does the majority of the Catholic community specifically want to be educated separately from the rest of us, or is it the case that, like everyone else, they simply want an outstanding education for their children, and find that the Catholic route is often the best way of achieving that?
3. If Catholics had more options for transferring to outstanding community schools locally (as many already do, to Waldegrave), would they choose those options over travelling to a single-faith school in a neighbouring borough?
4. I accept that there will always be very religious people who want to segregate themselves, but would I be right in asserting that there are also large numbers of Catholics who would be happy to attend community schools, provided that gave them the same level of academic excellence that can be found in many Catholic options?
5. If a new Catholic secondary school is created, it is likely to have an entrance policy that requires a priest's reference (as per the majority of existing Catholic schools). How do people feel about that?
6. If a state-funded Catholic School is created in the borough, would non-Catholic parents also like the option of sending their children there, provided they weren't barred by the admission system?

I'd be interested to hear your opinions!

see admission policy of catholic primary school in whitton. you can see how it makes it difficult if not impossible for pupils from other faiths www.st-edmunds.richmond.sch.uk/Admissions%20Policy%202012-13%20-%20final%20-%20approved%20by%20full%20governing%20body%2012%20May%202011.pdf

Chris - saying that there were enough pupils to fill a new 5-form-entry-school four times over involves the same sort of double accounting that Westminster used in the primary school application to Michael Gove.

It's very hard to tell from the raw figures exactly how many were so disappointed with what they were offered that they gave up on RuT, but it's likely that most of those 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th & 6th preferences for Orlean's wanted a different school which they got.

A lot of people will put something down for all the preferences even if all they want is (eg) Waldegrave and they live on its doorstep!

akhan - a Catholic school, is exactly what it says, ie a school for children of the Catholic Faith. It exists to educate Catholic children, and Catholic doctrine is central to this education - that's quite clear on your document link. I think this is something that hasn't been fully appreciated in these discussions, where people have tried to understand why Catholics are so passionate about their desire for a Catholic school in the borough. Not everyone agrees with the emphasis on Catholic doctrine, which is why there is a mixture of different schools in the borough, Catholic, CofE and non-denominational. But then if you don't agree with the ethos why would you want to send your child to this kind of school? Luckily we don't have a shortage of good or outstanding primaries in RuT, so there is more choice for everyone.

wimpykid - you are right and I was responding to Mir4 statements that there are lot of sikhs and other minority faiths in catholic schools . It is not true when statements are made that catholic schools are inclusive . We have seen stats posted here on the low % of minority faiths and FSM's in catholic schools.
And that is my problem with a new Catholic VA school as it will further reduce options for minority faiths

OK, I suppose it depends what you mean by "inclusive". I don't think it's true to say that Catholic schools exclude people from minority cultures or ethnic backgrounds, (Catholicism is after all one of the world's largest religions) However, you are only likely to find a significant number of non-Catholics in less popular Catholic schools where spaces haven't been filled by Catholics.

LittleMrsMuppet: I agree - thank you for pointing this out.

akham, re your post : It is not true when statements are made that catholic schools are inclusive . Have a look at the stats on CESEW Digest of 2010 Census Data for Schools and Colleges SEptember 2011 and Ofsted which gives the following stats: 29.2% of pupils in catholic secondary schools in 2010 were from ethnic minority backgrounds, compared to 21.4% in secondary schools nationally.

Kew, re your post 'Richmond Inclusive Schools campaign was set up to campaign for an inclusive school. On what basis do you think they should be happy that the school will be exclusively for a minority of the boroughs children?'

Answer: On the basis of the fact that this 10% minority do not have access to continuity of education within LBRT which is one of only 2 London Boroughs without a secondary Catholic School. This is therefore an unequal situation. That catholics were promised a Catholic Secondary well before risc commenced (the point you don't answer-why didn't risc arise in opposition to the manifesto pledge rather than wait a year or more?). That Catholics also pay tax and in addition a Catholic VA recieves 10% funding from the Archdiocese thus lessening the burden on the taxpayer. Which risc will have at full cost for an 'inclusive school' which can't currently be seen as necassary given the current 200 spare community school places. That an academy or other more inclsuive school will cause problems for the nearby academy. That 1800 children travel out of the Borough to attend a Catholic Secondary.

Of cvourse all these points are repeats of previous posts but must be worth repeating if the same questions preceed.

I have previously addressed your points hampton, I'm not going through it again.

To clarify a Catholic VA school at Clifden would have a significant negative impact on non catholic minorities. The govt wants faith schools to become free schools/ academies with max 50% faith based admissions to encourage better social integration. So why should Richmond have a Catholic VA secondary that has a strong opposition in the community? The manifesto only talked about working for a catholic secondary and not a catholic VA school as No 1 priority that will be closed to non-catholics. Also continuity of education is an issue for not just catholics but for all of us - many are forced to go private or out of borough, those who go for HA or TA have to accept the Kunskapsskolan methodology that is different than the approach at their primaries.

Does anyone know what is the position with the academies - now they have been set up, how easy is it for the council to take them back into local control, or for another management to take them over? I don't remember a level of debate this heated about the academies although perhaps I just didn't register at the time. But soon, all the borough secondaries may be academies and I've only seen one letter in the RTT about that.

Akhan- I guess the consultation will give us feedback about any strong opposition, who that oppostition is from and what it is that they oppose.

I still believe that as a significant minority group that is represented in local primary schools at a rate of 1:7, it is not unreasonable to ask that 1:9 of our secondary schools reflect this.
If the school was a Catholic VA school and was undersubscribed, the Schools Admission Codes means that non-Catholics could not be denied a place. If the school is full, then this would indicate that local children are indeed attending the school - this is not a request for a school with an ethos that has no chance of being filled.

Muminlondon - My understanding is that The Secretary of State can terminate the funding agreement (and in effect bring the school back into the maintained sector) if the Chief Inspector (OFSTED) determines that ?special measures? are necessary or if the academy fails to satisfy the Chief Inspector and the Secretary of State that special measures have been implemented properly.

It is now 9 weeks since the Archdiocese submitted its request 'to publish proposals' to the Secretary of State; we were told that these matters are usually decided 'within 6 weeks'. What can the problem be in this case, I wonder?

Apart from anything else, the plan is to open a school on the site next September, now less than 10 months away, so every day that is lost to waiting for a decision makes it harder to achieve that target.

I think the delay indicates that the SoS is minded to refuse the request. Perhaps he is holding back so that he can announce his decision along with some good news elsewhere for the RCs.

Chris - I would not speculate about what decision the SoS would make. However this is a very complicated and perhaps an unprecedented case. There are a number of factors to consider - the strong demand from catholic parents, the strong opposition to Catholic VA school from a number of parents, uncertainty of school places in future, sites and funding constraints, issues with secondary education quality in Richmond etc etc. The controversy created by the Council has also not helped. Ideally the Council should have conducted a detailed consultation immediately after announcing the purchase of Clifden Road site and evaluated the demand from everyone before deciding on the best option for type of school.

Jeev: I disagree; the important factors you list are matters for our elected Councillors and not for the SofS, who cannot possibly know better than the Council how to weigh them up. As I wrote last week ago (Wed 16-Nov-11 11:27:46) I see this argument in secular political terms: a choice between Utilitarianism (?the greatest possible good of the greatest possible number?) and Fairness (?whose turn is it for a new school??) and I expect the SofS to get on and do what we pay him to do: make a choice in a timely fashion so that a new school, of whatever kind, can be ready for next September.

I don't think that whatever type of school it is it will be ready for next September as the Council has only exchanged contracts to buy it next year once the college has moved out so it will surely take at least a year after that for it to be ready for occupation. The College probably don't have to complete the sale until they are ready to move to the revamped Parkshot so any delay on site there will mean a delay in the Council taking possession of Clifden.

It looks as if all the borough secondaries will soon be academies with sixth forms in the offing and the admission numbers at Hampton/Twickenham/RPA are going to be decreased down to 180 to accommodate sixth forms. From what I have been hearing in Teddington one of the drivers for the parents who have voted for academy status is the increased control they via the Academy Boards will have over things like admissions' numbers at local level. Most of them have seen their children go through primary schools with constant overcrowding and portacabins due to bulge classes and don't want to see the secondary schools go down that route again.

I also wonder what is going to happen to the increased number of children who are expected to be excluded from academies due to bad behaviour once all the secondary schools are independent and can take that decision themselves. Those children will still be the responsibility of the local authority so some sort of school or unit is going to have to be set up for them isn't it?

Removal of the 'Linked School Criterion' for Grey Court, Orleans Park and Teddington Schools Consultation will run from 15 Nov to 13 Jan. www.richmond.gov.uk/home/council_government_and_democracy/council/council_consultations/consultation_details.htm?id=C00870
I assume that the consultation on Clifden will
take place after a decision has been made on the Linked Schools,
given that it will impact the views of schools and individuals

The Council cabinet will not decide what to do about the links until March 22. I don?t think the Council and the Church will wish to wait that long if the SofS gives the go ahead. It?s clear from reading the report on linking that it no longer serves the purpose for which it was introduced 20 years ago - a lawful way of increasing the number of borough school places taken by borough children - and so it will be scrapped: Modelling of how the 2011 intakes would have looked had the LSP not been in place indicated that a net total of 33 (more) in-borough children - 29 more for Orleans Park, 16 more for Teddington, but 12 fewer for Grey Court - would have obtained places at the three schools . .

Chris, that modelling needs to be treated with caution, because people may have made different choices if the Linked School policy was not in place at that time.

However, I agree there is a very strong case for removing the policy, unless somebody suggests a better linking method that results in all in-borough schools having at least one link. I had a look at using adjacent wards as the linking criteria, but it still resulted in the Barnes and Kew schools having no links (and I didn't get as far as seeing how many new links to out-of-borough schools it would have created). We have a very strangely shaped borough!

BayJay: my point is that the forecast is there to buttress the decision to abolish the links, which has already been taken. Now that we have three oversubscribed schools, giving some primary schools preferential access to them cannot be justified - as comments here have shown.

I agree that there will be large changes in parent choice as a result, which cannot be forecast.

I think it's too late to suggest an alternative linking system if the schools are to convert to academies. Secondaries don't need the links if they are popular, and if they are building numbers they need to recruit from a wider area or from areas without links. It's some primaries that may need the links for pupil retention, but that can have the opposite effect on the growing number of unlinked schools.

Admission criteria in academies elsewhere are bewildering and depressing - banding (how can you have 9 equal ability bands? is that scientifically proven?), 10% on 'aptitude', an 85/15% split over a 3/5 mile radius, postcodes, random allocation within a three mile radius of the town hall...

If there's consensus in this thread it's that people just want a good local school that reflects the intake of the primary population and where there are community links (i.e. the pupils/parents may actually know each other).

Thinking about it, maybe Michael Gove is delaying the decision until after the governors of the five non-academies decide on whether to convert to academy status. Because that is another decision that ultimately gets referred to him and may get decided as early as next month or January and implemented from April 2012. And it includes another VA school in the area.

The Richmond Inclusive Schools campaign have published their response to the council's secondary school forecasts.