Living the dream - really????

[bebespain]

Apologies in advance if this comes across as a self-indulgent moan (its been a long weekend at home alone with the 2 ds)

I´ve just been peeling vegetables looking out of the kitchen window at the bleak scene, remains of snow/slush on the ground, grey skies, bare trees etc and I remember what somebody told me a while ago when I was moaning discussing my life here that I was "living the dream"

Can somebody remind me of what "the dream" is?? I am in Spain btw some 40kms out of Madrid

It is a serious question, honestly but I really am struggling to find the answer.

Is anybody else living overseas told that you are "living the dream" or does it just depend on the country you are living in? I mean is the British idea of Spain still that of being by the sea/beach sitting drinking sangria all day, munching fish and chips etc

Also love the idea of the UK being inherently fair. It's one of the things that makes me feel so british here, that awareness of how things are expected to be done in britain. Here nepotism is rife in a way that is just impossible in the UK nowadays. Like getting your health social security sorted out, or having your dole organised quicker, or getting into the school you want.. all of it can be sorted as long as you have a mate/relly in the right department.

We are looking into schools for the autumn and relatives are already suggesting 'cheats' left right and centre, things that in principle I would never agree with in the spirit of fairness and doing the right thing. But when faced with everyone around you saying "that's the way it is, and the way everyone does it" it starts to blur the lines.

I don't know. I miss my family and friends so much but I am not under any illusion that I would see them more if I lived in the UK, I see them approx every 3 months one way or another at the moment and from some things I read on MN that's not bad at all. And we don't have much money though we have managed to buy a flat, we don't have lots of luxuries. But when I am sitting on the beach with dh and ds at 6pm on a wednesday night in July, its hard not to think that really, its a nice life and I think THOSE are the moments tthat others are envious of.

We're in Luxembourg so I'm with the Belgium-dwellers on not living the dream, but we moved here after 4 years in the south of France where supposedly we were... except that in reality the summer heat meant spending 2 months inside with the shutters down thinking about the dream we were supposed to be living.

Yes the beach was only 8km away, but in the traffic that meant at least half an hour and with little prospect of finding a parking space in the summer (and beaches absolutely heaving). Plus having a fair-skinned toddler and then another baby meant I wasn't keen to have them out in the heat, and our first just wasn't a sleeper and never managed the whole siesta/late bedtime thing.

I agree about France being inherently rude (!), although Montpellier was a lot better than Strasbourg where I had previously been, and people much more laid-back.

But yes, the winters were mild and it was nice to see the sun most days! We made friends etc, but it all takes time and there's definitely no such thing as living the dream.

When we moved to Lux, everyone said we'd find the winter really hard... and it has been a particularly harsh winter everywhere, but I have been determined not to complain!! and you know what, when you haven't seen the sun for weeks on end you REALLY appreciate it in a different way when it does come out

Ooh Weta we are thinking of moving to Montpellier as we miss city living and are in the country at the moment.

We have some family there and know the town a fair bit, can I ask how you found living there? Cheers.

This thread is proving to be compulsive reading for me

One of you said (sorry cant remember name)what dream could you live with a toddler and baby? It made me laugh as it is so true. Escaping perhaps...?!!

Bucharest You crack me up and I can so relate to what you say. I reckon your stories would be excellent book material, have you thought of writing one?!!

I am also inundated with cabbages from my well-meaning FIL but hey I have purple ones too, so there!!!

Your comment about fairness is also totally spot on. God I miss that so much living here. And the parking business, well the whole driving madness (I really miss curteous drivers)but thats another thread and best I block my driving nightmares out of my mind or face being permanently scarred

I cant remember who said that when others talk about "living the dream" then its probably their dream. Yes!

I never mention where I live when I go back home anymore, to people I dont know that is, as I find that prevents these stupid comments and lets face it I wont convince them its not all sun, booze and lounging on the costa etc

Pacific I also think that a lot depends on length of stay. I know that if DH had a temporary contract for say 2 years then my frame of mind would be totally different. But my goodness the mere thought that this is a permanent move could send me over the edge, I cant bare to even think that!

I like the sound of HK where everything works, that is a refreshing concept. Yes I know the UK isnt without its faults and as most of us agree nowhere is perfect but living away has made me realise is not all that bad and it really isnt all about the weather or traffic wardens

Just caught up on the latest posts - excellent points made

frakkinaround - I really like your post as a lot of what you say applies to Spain too and I can totally understand how therapeutic that must have been for you ...and like I said before best not to get me on the subject of driving "people CANNOT drive"

Maveta - yes those moments are probably the ones other people are envious of, shame we dont have a beach nearby

Maveta where are you? Sorry if you posted it and I just didn't see it , but where you are sounds exactly the same as here in Greece. Everyone in on the fiddle and it drives me mad! In order to get something done you have to 'know somebody' and the paper work for even the simplest thing is a nightmare.

This thread has made me realise though that the same shit happens wherever you are, so perhaps the grass isn't always greener. I would like to see what life is like with dh and the dc's in the UK, but the thought of up-rooting them all and for it all to fail is something we'll have to seriously consider.

At least the sun is trying to come out here.

We're in Mallorca...I suppose the good thing is that it is so small that its really not that hard to know someone who knows someone. Which is probably what makes the entire system a complete farce!!

bebe! Hello stranger!

Love the thread. Having spent a few chunks in different places I certainly agree about the "dream" myth. Some of it was amazing, some of it deeply frustrating, some places I long to go back to and others I couldn't care less about. I suppose people forget that you are not on holiday so it is pretty much just the same old daily grind.

I often long to move to the South West of France where I have family. It is so beautiful and the food is amazing. I have no illusions though, I know that my children would not morph into well behaved, self sufficient best friends who would play inthe woods all day while I lounged by my sun soaked pool. I would still have to entertain them, clean the house and any trips to the lovely local markets would be pretty much the same as a trip to the market here! Can't deny that the quality of food would be better though.

In order to live the dream I think you need to include winning the euro millions in the dream so you can have a housekeeper, nanny, pool boy and gardener leaving you to potter in your olive grove and orchards and amble round the market with a big basket on your arm.

In the same respect though I get quite annoyed about other expats bashing the UK as if it's some terrible place, almost as if they feel they have to justify their reason for moving abroad. The NHS is rubbish etc, no it's not, it's fine and it's FREE guys, here in France it might be faster but it certainly costs more, what with top up insurance that doesn't cover everything it actually costs a fortune for eye tests, medical treatment etc.

I know here that we were able to buy a lovely house mortgage free with a bigger garden than we had in the UK and the DC's definitely have much more freedom and next month I'll love it because I love it here in the summer but I hate the winter. My DC's are bilingual and they're happy, I love the fact that all summer they're outside and I don't have to worry, so in some respects it's better, but they might be outside, I'll still be sat indoors at my desk trying to make the next day's deadline with work. As someone said earlier on the thread and people come to stay for a holiday and expect you to be on holiday too, we've started getting the phone calls from family and friends asking what we're doing in August. I never openly discourage but I never really actively encourage too because I know if they visit I'll have to reduce my hours to look after them and that will mean reduced money in September.

Rosie, where in greece are you? I live in the north and it's been snowing for three days now, we all love it :-)

Well, I have done my london bit with kids, and wouldn't change our lifestyle now for all the fairness in the world ;-) And the truth is that people here like helping us, we're "the english people, they don't have any family here, can we do anything to help them"?

My house is too small to have guests but I do get the ' I gave your phone number / e mail to a friend who is coming over as I know you can help them with places to eat, sleep, transfers etc' ....Yep I will sort out the holiday , provide info and not get paid for it.
What about the 'Oh you are so lucky living here' Phrase.....I have given up even saying anything else but 'Oh yes I am '.
This dream sort of happened its not my dream place to live just my way of life . SO have to just get on with it !

It depends what your dream is. Would your life really be that much different if you lived in the UK - my guess is that with two small children the answer is probably not. What you do have to look forward to of course is a warm spring and hot summer - which is probably what most people think of when they talk about living the dream. I lived abroad for ten years in Paris and Berlin with small children and must say I always found being abroad lent a certain novelty to the essential drudgery of those early years. I'm now enjoying the novelty of being back in Britain - rhapsodising over such mundanities as going to the library and being able to get a decent haircut (I feel your pain!). The trouble is I now feel like a foreigner in my own country - what you don't realise until you come home is how much you've taken on all those funny foreign ways. Fortunately we'll be off again in a few years so in the meantime I'm enjoying living the dream here before I go and live the dream somewhere else.

Lillian in my case it would be different. If I was in the Uk I would ( WHINGE alert)

My dd would go to soft play every once in a while
They would go to gym clubs and dancing and be able to persue what sports they fancy.
They would play in parks, run in open spaces and maybe even in a garden.
My house would be bigger and they might even have their own rooms.
I would use second hand shops and charity shops instead of paying silly prices for shoes and clothes. DD had a new pair of boots and I paid £60 in a sale FGS.
I would take them to the library and get tons of books and then let them to the craft activities that are often on there.
We would go to the pool more as the 'free swimming' sessions are suited to children as well as adults.
But on the positive side
I have a decent hairdresser thank god !!Plus Parma ham in the Uk costs too much and tastes like cardboard

rosa, I'm sorry you feel the way you do. I suppose this is the way when the move has not been entirely your choice.

Thing is, it depends WHERE in the uk, and your experience of it. The first few things on your list are exactly why I love for my children to grow up here and nto in the uk. The rst are all financial difficulties, are you certain you'd be better off financially if you lived back home?

What is there that you do enjoy (apart from parma ham of course) that you wouldn't be able to do back home?

I wish groundhog.
But they are all things that the Uk has on offer and this place doesn't.
The pool offers free swimming sessions ( as in no classes) in the evenings or over lunchtimes . The other times it is full with classes ( not suitable for the dds).
I can afford ( thankfully) to buy the dds clothes etc that they need but refuse to pay the prices unless needed - like the boots I do tend to shop on line M&S and Next who post overseas.
Overhere there is ( sorry) nothing that I would like to do that springs to mind - There must be something but I haven't found it yet ! I will go back to the Gym and Pilates when dd2 is in nursery. There are no evening classes, M&B clubs, Toddler groups etc etc.
Oh woe is me ..Not really I have a great dh and 2 wonderful dd's so in whatever surroundings 'onwards and upwards ' and all that !

Beachcomber... I'm happy to tell you anything you want to know about living in Montpellier - do you have any specific questions?

We did really like it (my DH is French), and I had lived in Strasbourg previously and much preferred Montpellier (and not just for the weather, as it's definitely not my ideal climate). I found people generally down-to-earth and friendly, we had lovely neighbours in both the places we lived in, and the maternelle DS1 went to was excellent. It's also quite quick to get out into the countryside and I really like that area of France.

We moved to Luxembourg because I was offered a job at the EU, which is far better than the freelancing I was doing, but other than that we would not have had any reason to leave and I would wholeheartedly recommend Montpellier.

Whereabouts are you at the moment? and how old are your children? I was involved in an English-speaking parent-child group there which was a good way of making friends (for children up to about age 5).

"I have a great dh and 2 wonderful dd's" - Rosa, you are living the dream! Onwards and upwards (as you said yourself!)

i love this thread! its totally cheered me up

Just marking my place. I haven't got time to add much now.

I knew this would be you Bebe, haven't we been living the same dream? hahaha. I nearly escaped mine but it all went pear shaped as things often do.

Lillian - exactly .... I could whinge and whinge but the end of the day I have to look at what I have. But to make my days easier please could the Italians just learn to queue? Now that would really make me happy !!!!!!

Hi Indith (BIG WAVE) I have dropped off the Dec 06 thread but that doesnt mean I dont still think of you all (Note to self must drop back in soon) Hope you are all well...
(2nd note to self: Must play Euro Millions Lottery on Friday)

Rosa - I am very of your good hairdresser. Your whinge alert list is exactly the same as mine although I do have a park nearby, trouble is there´s never any other bugger in it as everybody else works. Still I will try and go "onwards and upwards" with you as I also have a great DH nad 2 fantastic DS oh and of course you would never find decent Serrano ham in the UK [GRIN]

LillianGish�´s comment is lovely!

Hello Spain-dwelling Mumsnetters - I'm in Madrid. It probably doesn't count as "living the dream" because it's not on the coast, but we're pretty happy here. I think a lot of that is because we've managed to drum up a good network of friends - Spanish and international ex-pats - many of whom have been absolutely lovely with presents, visits and offers of help since we had our DD.

I always think it's the people that make the place, hence why I'm enjoying our second year here and contemplating a third. It would be different if we hadn't managed to make any friends, very isolating.

Having said that, life as an ex-pat with limited (but improving) Spanish has its frustrations and yes, we have to work and I am a first time-mum with a tiny baby, which obviously has its fair share of ups and downs.

But I appreciate the differences, find I am learning a lot, it's broadening my mind just being exposed to different ways of doing things and I appreciate the good points of the UK much more from afar. Oh and the sunshine is lovely, although it gets bloody hot in full summer - which isn't ideal in the middle of a city! But Madrid is a fun place - including with a tiny baby (and people here generally adore babies and children).

My mum lives in rural SW France and has watched many people try and "live the dream" there. She says for most, it lasts five years. The men often have manual skills, so can usually find work despite the language barrier, whereas their wives/partners mostly end up stuck at home without the level of French to make friends. Many of them soon become bored and lonely. Mum says the classic pattern is 5 years - the woman tries for two years, spends the third year deciding she's had enough, the fourth year convincing her husband/partner to move back and the fifth year organising the return to the UK.

Interesting thread!

PS bebespain - I can put you in touch with a decent tri-lingual hairdresser in Madrid (Eng/German/Spanish) - he's pretty cheap too and a great character. Let me know if you want more details! He has a tiny salon very close to Atocha Station...

You should indeed drop in bebe, we are all pretty sporadic these days so nice and easy to keep up with! (Ama too!)

Amapoleon I have been wondering where you were, what´s taken you so long??

Rosa Dont get me started on the topic of queueing

I like this thread as someone who lived in Italy aged 21 for a year and came home appreciating it like never before

Dh wants us to emigrate to the US. I keep telling him it will not solve any problems just remove us from a good, solid network of friends and family. He scoffs at all mn-related stuff, however, so I shall have to invent "friends abroad" who tell me all this