What would you do? Overseas move

[Cherasy]

Situation is this - my DH and I have both been offered well paid, good jobs in Kuala Lumpur. Both opportunities are exciting for us from a work perspective, and as individuals we love to travel and adventure. However we have 2 DC - a 13 year old DD currently in y8 and a 10 year old DS currently in y6. This move includes school fees fully paid for at the top British international school in KL, plus accommodation allowance.

We would be better off in KL financially, but our life here is also objectively quite good. We have reasonable jobs and pay (but doesn’t stretch too far in the SE of England!), my job I don’t love but it’s okay, DH likes his but there’s a possibility the London office will close in the next few years and he will need to find another job. Right now we have no major struggles and DCs go to good state schools. We have a nice house and the kids have friends. They are both into a sporting hobby, but this is very well catered for in KL and in fact this international school is known for it.

I know that it a tricky time to move, especially for DD but in my mind the positives would outweigh the negatives, and the experiences we could give them would be unachievable here. I’m aware of the uni fees rule - we have lived abroad before and have seen many ways round it so not too concerned but would be prepared to pay if needed. I suppose my question is am I being utterly unreasonable to my DC at this stage of their life? There’s a bit of now or never about this - I wouldn’t move DD after year 9 due to gcse choices and if we wait till they’re both grown I don’t think it’ll happen as we will be a fair bit older and so will our parents. But I am prepared to hear that this isn’t fair, or alternatively those who have done similar and had a good experience. I’m sure I’m going to get called selfish, but I have not actually done anything yet other than receive the job offer!

Respectfully, that's the kind of nonsense spouted on Instagram by someone talking about doing a bungee jump or asking a boy from her high school out. It's not appropriate for an adult making major life decisions on behalf of children who will be far more affected by it than their parents, in terms of potential cultural homelessness and identity issues.

Which is not to say the OP and her family should not make this move, only that they need to think very carefully about its likely length, and whether being a third culture kid is something they want for their children, which I think are potentially bigger issues than the more immediate ones of 'Will they settle?' and 'Will they miss their friends too much?'

You're absolutely right that I need to (and am!) considering these things carefully. However, I don't suppose I would know how this would go unless I actually do it, if you know what I mean? So really the question to myself is whether I'm prepared to take the risk on their behalf, with reasonable confidence that the experience of living and learning overseas would be beneficial to them as people. I do know a few people who have moved overseas with and without kids of various ages and I don't yet know anyone who wishes they didn't! But I am working from a small sample size.

Well, I've done it, as I think I said up the thread (I've moved around internationally a fair bit myself, solo and with DH, before we had a child, which I've always loved, as I love nothing more than a new language, a new culture, a new landscape), but after we had DS, we approached the next move (which happened when he was about to turn 8) very much from the POV of 'Where do we want him to grow up and have his formative years and most of his education? Where do we want him to feel as though he's from?' And with the firm commitment that we would stay there until he'd left home.

Even then, it wasn't entirely straightforward. He definitely mourned his previous life, school and old friends for a long time, and, five years on, remains very nostalgic about them -- and it was a far bigger culture shock for him to move from a large village to a small city than we'd anticipated.

I'd do it - Only for two years, but I'd do it. The main decider would be my kids; if they want to stay, we stay. If they are chill with leaving, we leave. Could you leave it up to the kids? Or does this have to be a parents imput only dession

Thank you! I have considered this but saying that after 3 years we can review if they want to stay or not and let them decide. At that point DD would be about to start A levels and DS about to start GCSEs so we could move back then if they wanted to. Only reason I think is that potentially this could be even harder - to ricochet back and forward! But yes, I think it could be a whole family decision and if they were done after 3 then we could be too.

Do it! The expat experience will be wonderful for them and will really broaden their horizons

Incredible opportunity for you all, please take it!
I would tell them rather than asking them you don’t want to set off on the wrong foot that you lied or misled them.
When you tell them have lots of plans in mind about how to keep in touch with friends eg a spare bedroom for those that visit, two weeks in uk over summer guaranteed, allowing them social media or tablets (for friend chat only).
remember they will become more global and may not want to do uk uni they might want to try for USA or Australia

Don’t promise this - say we’ll review as a family. Will be likely that some of you are more keen to move back than others and job etc things will be unknown then

Thank you. DH and I have said that if we go ahead, we will add to the accommodation allowance so we can have a large house with a spare bedroom for visitors and lots of space for them, and for sure as I'd be working in the school too I would bring them back every summer. Yes I suppose they could well fancy uni in Oz of the USA - that would be an exciting opportunity for them too. I know money isn't everything, but really the additional money that we would make by doing this could really open up the ways in which we could help them in future. I know it would be hard for them to understand that as they are young, but I think we could massively advantage them financially as well as culturally. I just wish they were a couple of years younger then I would be off with bells on!

Respectfully, it seems the OP is thinking about the potential move carefully.

What would you do?

People are responding directly to the OP title unlike your response.

This is slightly more complicated when you are making decisions that impact on your children. Our international move had a huge impact on DC1. It was great for the rest of us but really quite crap for them & has continuing impacts.

I would think very very carefully about your eldest’s personality, how they make friends, how they cope with isolation, how you will support them in the transition as they are at a tricky age for this.

Indeed, which is the purpose of the thread really and why I'm still on the fence. I'm sorry that your move had a negative impact on your DC - how old were they and what region did you go to, if you don't mind me asking?

I would go. I was a child of parents that moved countries for jobs (many in Asia) and it was an amazing experience for me. Yes, we were in an expat bubble to an extent (although many nationalities, not just Brits) and I was in international and British schools, but most with a large cohort of locals or other Asians, and I can honestly say it’s served me well in terms of cultural capital and relating to people from other cultures. Also educationally, I was streets ahead in many subjects when I did end up in schools in the UK, I imagine mainly from the level of competition from my Asian classmates.

Would I have done the same with children? Absolutely yes. My DC is quite envious of my experiences and would have loved to have lived elsewhere.

Regarding university, if they have EU passports they could access the much cheaper unis in the EU, Ireland included. I believe their international fees are a lot less eye watering than U.K. fees.

i lived overseas for 25 years and the key factors for us were always education and healthcare.
our children were born overseas and ds moved to his fourth country when he was 18. I agree with pp than international schools are very welcoming of new students as there is a constant flow of people coming and leaving.
KL is not my favourite place in Asia, but it’s an excellent location for exploring the region.
re education - I have also experienced the ‘best in the world education with the the most amazing teachers’ marketing hype and it does pay to keep a close eye on what exactly is going on academically. My DCs had some truly outstanding teachers and a couple that were quite poor. We had one incident where the specification for the gcse had changed and this had been missed by the teacher and only discovered when students came out of the exam!
Also consider when you move back to the uk and home fees status for university.

I was responding to your rather silly response, not the OP, who is, absolutely taking the move seriously, and is responding thoughtfully to points raised in relation to her children.

We have dc going back to Uni in the UK and have had a mixture of home fee and international fee offers. It is worth remembering that even with home fees you can’t access student loans. The gap between home fees and international fees varies greatly but can be substantial but it is I think a little easier to get a place perhaps.
You also have some practical decisions to make about your house, sell it and you reduce your links to the UK. Renting is increasingly difficult and is only going to get more so. Leaving a house empty also has challenges.
I think a lot will depend on your oldest, are they sociable and outgoing, do they make friends fairly easily.
There are likely to be bumps but I would be inclined to go.

My kids have grown up in 2 different countries. I would 100% do it. As for grandparents, we used to fly ours out to see us, and would visit often. Face to face time probably about the same if not more.

KL may be multicultural but Muslims are still subjected to Sharia law and we all know how misogynist that is for women, and if you don't know how that pans out for women you should.

There's also the question of what if one or both of Ops children are gay - that's punishable by up to 20 years imprisonment and is a secular law that applies equally to Muslim and non Muslims.

Dare I mention the way trans are treated as well. It really is quite awful.

There are also very worrying restrictions around freedom of expression for all Malaysians. But as a non Malaysian it is illegal to take part in any protests or demonstrations.

They also retain the death penalty, imprison people without trial and use torture. Whipping is also used, not to mention indefinite incarceration without trial particularly for immigrants.

I dont have time to go through it all but it is all out there if you care to look. So @paristotokyo I do hope that's less one dimensional for you.

What would you do???

You might think my response was 'silly' but others may not...and that's ok. No need to put others down.

I note that on a recent thread about moving to Dubai, the OP was warned many times that if her marriage failed and she wanted to come back to the UK, she would not have the right to bring her kids with her. This was said by many to be a good enough reason not to move.

Interestingly hasn’t been mentioned once on this thread (I may have missed it).

Anyway it’s a factor to consider OP.

You’re listing laws and theoretical extremes as if they reflect everyday life for families living in KL, which they don’t. There’s an important difference between a countrys legal framework on paper and how people actually live day to day.

Yes, Malaysia (and lots of other countries) have laws many of us would disagree with, no one is denying that. But it’s misleading to suggest that Muslim women in KL are uniformly oppressed, or that families are living under constant threat. That’s fear mongering.

On LGBTQ+ issues, again it’s a serious and complex topic, but presenting it as though children of expats are at imminent risk of imprisonment simply isn’t grounded in reality. Context really matters.

You’re absolutely entitled to decide it wouldn’t be somewhere you would live, but framing an entire city and its people through the most extreme interpretations of law feels reductive and, to be frank, still very one dimensional.

Sorry OP for derailing the thread. That’ll be all from me.

I wouldn’t sell home base in the UK. But I’d say yes. And go in a flash. If the kids struggle and you can afford it lots of schools like Wycombe Abbey have boarders in the same position.

Thank you - definitely wouldn’t be selling UK home

Do it, it will open up a whole new world for your children. For me, the humidity woild be too much.

OP I moved from the UK to KL and spent 4 years there. Im pretty sure I know which school you are talking about and it is a brilliant school with world class sports facilities. KL is an amazing place to live, we made friends for life and it is so affordable. Id move back in a heartbeat!