What would you do? Overseas move

[Cherasy]

Situation is this - my DH and I have both been offered well paid, good jobs in Kuala Lumpur. Both opportunities are exciting for us from a work perspective, and as individuals we love to travel and adventure. However we have 2 DC - a 13 year old DD currently in y8 and a 10 year old DS currently in y6. This move includes school fees fully paid for at the top British international school in KL, plus accommodation allowance.

We would be better off in KL financially, but our life here is also objectively quite good. We have reasonable jobs and pay (but doesn’t stretch too far in the SE of England!), my job I don’t love but it’s okay, DH likes his but there’s a possibility the London office will close in the next few years and he will need to find another job. Right now we have no major struggles and DCs go to good state schools. We have a nice house and the kids have friends. They are both into a sporting hobby, but this is very well catered for in KL and in fact this international school is known for it.

I know that it a tricky time to move, especially for DD but in my mind the positives would outweigh the negatives, and the experiences we could give them would be unachievable here. I’m aware of the uni fees rule - we have lived abroad before and have seen many ways round it so not too concerned but would be prepared to pay if needed. I suppose my question is am I being utterly unreasonable to my DC at this stage of their life? There’s a bit of now or never about this - I wouldn’t move DD after year 9 due to gcse choices and if we wait till they’re both grown I don’t think it’ll happen as we will be a fair bit older and so will our parents. But I am prepared to hear that this isn’t fair, or alternatively those who have done similar and had a good experience. I’m sure I’m going to get called selfish, but I have not actually done anything yet other than receive the job offer!

I would absolutely do this. We tried to make a similar move work but just couldn't quite manage it - one of the jobs didn't work out. Children were a similar age to yours and the older one is wistful at the memory of the missed opportunity.

Do it OP!!

I think it’s an amazing opportunity when both of you have been offered jobs there! That hardly ever happens!

The only sticking point is the age of your thirteen year old. I am going to
be entirely honest, as someone who has had extensive experience of being an expat, and say there is no absolutely right or wrong answer here.

It could be absolutely amazing for them, and I think the majority thrive, but I have known two pupils who made a significant international move at thirteen and fourteen respectively, and it completely discombobulated them, and from that point on they have never felt like they fully “fitted” anywhere, which has had an ongoing negative impact as adults. For most young teens though, the experience has been enriching and fulfilling!

But it depends on so many individual factors such as the personality of your child, how entrenched they are with their friends in uk, how easily they make new friends and how confidently they adapt to new situations, how open they are to being a newcomer and having to start from scratch in a new country, the quality of their relationships with extended family etc. Only you will know the answer to those question. Also, a lot depends on whether they meet new friends they “click” with at their new school; it only takes one or two to make a huge difference.

Another thing I would take in to account is how many new students join the school at thirteen.

Also, the potential length of your stay there, and whether your dc will have to possibly return to a slightly less fantastic house and school in the UK in a few years, as it can be harder to adapt back “down” than adapt “up” ifyswim,

I would go there on holiday initially and check it out and see how your eldest likes it? Good luck!

How much of a support network do you currently have around you with the kids and do you think you can manage without that?

Pros and cons, it is a great opportunity!
pros - Children being global citizens and new experiences, great schooling and language opportunities plus an adventure.

cons - expat communities can be very elitist and, randomly, small minded, if people chose not to mix with the local population. I’d see how the school feels- do they celebrate the local area and context or just ignore it? Do local children also attend? Are the teachers local? Malaysia is beautiful but KL is quite noisy and intense! Think 24 hour moped zooming noises and traffic jams in the centre. Malaysian cities also have a very obvious sub class (can’t think how else to describe it) of workers in construction and maid/nanny roles. Subsequently, some of the most racist people I have ever met were products of that. How would you navigate that as a family to avoid your children becoming entitled?

finally, a possible negative is your children feeling rootless. So, I’d consider how often you’d be able to see extended family and where you could stay when in the uk? Eg if you come back for one month but are sofa surfing, it’s really stressful, if you come back and have a base it is not. I remember an acquaintance at uni whose parents worked for the UN whose childhood was very uprooted and they lost a sense of identity as a result.

Yes it’s a rarity for the stars to align like this!

thank you so much for this insightful response - the 13 year old is the biggest unknown for me and the biggest reason I hesitate. We can only make one choice here and if she hates it or can’t settle I would feel so awful. I don’t know what it’s like as I never even moved house as a child let alone countries, but my DH did and thrived.

Do it, OP! Your kids will see wonderful things, have amazing experiences and meet fantastic people. There is no better gift you can give your children.

My kids were younger when we emigrated to the US so the decision was a bit easier but I would still have done it had they been the ages of yours.

in terms of freedoms for your kids as they become teenagers, I don’t know what that would look like. I’d speak to parents at the school. Eg my good friend who grew up in Singapore did not have the freedom to drink or go clubbing but did have a lot of freedoms linked to cosmopolitan living eg normal to go to a cafe together with friends after school
finally what would your working hours look like? In general the working day longer and the line between home/work is blurred in Southeast Asia, massively generalising, eg it’s normal to eat a takeaway evening meal together between 5 and 6 then work again till 8, THEN go home.

On balance I think it’s a wonderful opportunity and go for it, but with full awareness.

Kids at international schools tend to be more welcoming to new students, as they know about, and have often themselves experienced moving schools mid year

Yes possibly but those same kids often move on to a different location - so be prepared that your kids may make friends only for those friends to up sticks 6 months later.

Super grateful for all the balanced responses on this thread, and varying perspectives - thank you! I will go through this thread with DH later, and will also book our trip to visit

I know KL very well. Spent a lot of time there. It’s definitely not paradise. I’ve always loved coming home when I’ve been there. Personally, I wouldn’t do this (children with SEN/autism are not treated all that well over there) but if your kids would like it then it’s probably worth a shot.

For me it would really depend on kids. They (especially your older) are at the stage where the lives they have always known / the friends they have made are all their world. If they don’t settle in KL their teen years for you will be hell on earth as they’ll act up / may never forgive you and it will be a scar on their childhood for the rest of their lives.
I say this as someone who was born in southern hemisphere but currently living in northern hemisphere with lots of friends who moved teens overseas with long term consequences.
but I think go on a family holiday there, see the schools and decide as a family

I grew up in Singapore and my kids would totally pack up and go 'back' if they can (unfortunately one is nearly 18 and the other is 15).

Go. Most definitely!!

Hi, I moved back to the UK about 4 years ago from KL. I know it well and as a teacher have a lot of inside info with regards to schools and raising children/teenagers there. There are obviously pros and cons as with living anywhere. Feel free to message me if you'd like to know more. I have so much to share and don't mind being of help x

Go for it. We lived in KL for 4 years and have just left. We moved there when DD was 11 and DS was 9 (after living in the ME for 7 years). Happy to answer any questions about KL. it’s very cheap to live there and we liked it.

I’m a teacher at an international school, so I see lots of students come and go.

I would say that you should go for it (I also love KL!) but bear in mind:

• Your older child is on the cusp of being too old for a move like this. If they are able to make friends and integrate quickly at the school, it should be fine. Do you know what the school has in place to welcome new students?
• You’ll be away from your village, so you’ll have to pay for a ‘village’, but your DC are older so this won’t be so bad. But think about what you would do if your younger one was off sick from school.
• Leaving your parents, especially as they age, is very hard to do. We are moving back home because our parents are entering their 70s and we can’t bear being away from them anymore, or having the grandchildren away from them. They might struggle with the flight and won’t come to see you very often, as is the case with my PIL now.
• Make sure you and your DH have a clear, non-negotiable exit plan. If one of you is unhappy and hates it (parents or children), you move home. At the end of the 5 years, if you extend your stay, EVERYONE has to be happy to stay, including the children. I’ve seen so many people over the years fall into perpetual contract renewals because the money is good, and their marriage hasn’t survived.

I don’t mean to be a negative Nancy, just giving some honest advice as someone that’s lived abroad for 15 years and worked with expats for the same amount of time.

Good luck OP! If you go, eat plenty of fried kway teow and laksa for me!!

I grew up abroad and left my home country with my parents at ten months so my entire childhood and early adulthood was spent abroad. I was educated at three different international schools. I settled in my home country in my early 20's and have been here ever since.

While I am eternally grateful and recognise that my international upbringing has given me a unique perspective and made me truly bilingual, there are a couple of things you really need to think about:

• KL is far away from the UK, making it more difficult and expensive to go 'home.' How will you retain ties to family and friends?

• Girls tend to be more 'cliquey' than boys and I fear it might be more difficult for your DD to integrate in her class. Alot of these friendships may have already been established. I witnessed this first hand. For some reason it seems to be easier for boys.

• If you go please have them start at the beginning of the school year (usually September.) I once started at a new international school at the end of January and found it really hard to integrate and it had a knock-on effect for several years.

• Think through what you would do if one child really thrives in this environment and the other doesn't. (It is more common than you think.) Do you all move back?

Alot to think about and difficult to advise without knowing more.

If you want to message me directly please feel free to do so. Alot more advice I would be happy to give.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'd be off like a shot. It's a wonderful country too. Great place to bring up children

You really should go. What a wonderful cultural experience for your children

Thank you @guildingthelily and @madamepresidenti will message you both

Not a negative Nancy at all! I wrote this post as I want to hear as many views and experiences as possible - thank you ☺️

thank you very much for sharing your experiences. The move would be early summer (if it goes ahead) in time for a start in September - y7 for DS and y9 for DD. I totally see what you are saying about girls being a bit trickier than boys in terms of integration. During interview I raised the point of DD being on the older side for such a move and they said they see it a lot (even kids coming in y10 and y11) and they have a buddy system. DD is an excellent competitive swimmer and this school has an exception swim training and competition peogramme - I hope that this would be a good way for her to find new friends and settle down too.

Ok so I'm a serial expat currently in my 3rd Asia country with a 17-year-old and a 19year now back in UK for Uni - so much to add here, but I'll stick to the main ones

1. home fees are increasingly unlikely - yes, it depends on the course and the Uni but if its a "competitive" one, very unlikely, irrespective of your house and ties, and remember, as the 13-year-old moves on to Uni your 10-year-old is too old to move back so that's possibly international fees for both. On the plus side - and the Unis and schools will absolutely dispute this, but my anecdotal evidence is British passport-holding international fee-paying students are gold dust for Unis, basically fluent in English cash cows! So there is likely some flexibility on acceptance.

2. It really depends on the kid - we moved last time when DC1 was 15 right in middle of GSCE's - potentially horrific but moved them into IB and they absolutely took off, DC2 was 13 and sensitive and I'd say it took us 18 months to get them settled socially and academically and even now its a bit wobbly. Uni is on the horizon, and they are not looking forward to shifting social and academic settings again. So I'd say it was a gamble and its paid off for one kid, still not sure about the other.

3. Teenage years are - like anywhere - mixed. Affluent parents often travelling for work, and an often relaxed attitude to expats means there is a lot they can get up to, even if its not officially out and about. But equally, 3 am in a taxi on their own coming home from a party, never had to worry about that.

On the whole I'd always say its worth while but go in with your eyes open on how tough it might be to settle, and especially for those ages the potential Uni costs.

My NDN moved with her 3 DC and DH to Canada about 2-3 years ago. The eldest DD was 11, started in middle school and then transitioned to high school. She was diagnosed with ADHD whilst there but is in a normal mainstream school. She’s thriving now compared to her junior and possible secondary school options. Her siblings are also doing well though the middle DS does miss the UK.

Their life in Toronto is amazing, lots to do outdoors and they return to UK/europe once or twice a year for holidays and to see family and friends.

They also got a dog whilst out there (puppy) which the DD had always wanted. The mother had lived abroad in the ME as a child so knew about the changes etc.

They’ve kept their house in UK and are renting it out. They may stay there until the children finish education or they may not. Undecided yet. The only slight downside is the DH is working harder and has more work now so he can’t do what he did when in UK, weekend day bike rides etc.

Its a big decision but knowing what I know about secondary schools in the UK and life here in general I’d probably take this offer.

Thank you so much for the direct experience - really valuable. Can I ask then if you are paying intl fees for your eldest?