What would you do? Overseas move

[Cherasy]

Situation is this - my DH and I have both been offered well paid, good jobs in Kuala Lumpur. Both opportunities are exciting for us from a work perspective, and as individuals we love to travel and adventure. However we have 2 DC - a 13 year old DD currently in y8 and a 10 year old DS currently in y6. This move includes school fees fully paid for at the top British international school in KL, plus accommodation allowance.

We would be better off in KL financially, but our life here is also objectively quite good. We have reasonable jobs and pay (but doesn’t stretch too far in the SE of England!), my job I don’t love but it’s okay, DH likes his but there’s a possibility the London office will close in the next few years and he will need to find another job. Right now we have no major struggles and DCs go to good state schools. We have a nice house and the kids have friends. They are both into a sporting hobby, but this is very well catered for in KL and in fact this international school is known for it.

I know that it a tricky time to move, especially for DD but in my mind the positives would outweigh the negatives, and the experiences we could give them would be unachievable here. I’m aware of the uni fees rule - we have lived abroad before and have seen many ways round it so not too concerned but would be prepared to pay if needed. I suppose my question is am I being utterly unreasonable to my DC at this stage of their life? There’s a bit of now or never about this - I wouldn’t move DD after year 9 due to gcse choices and if we wait till they’re both grown I don’t think it’ll happen as we will be a fair bit older and so will our parents. But I am prepared to hear that this isn’t fair, or alternatively those who have done similar and had a good experience. I’m sure I’m going to get called selfish, but I have not actually done anything yet other than receive the job offer!

We’re currently overseas on an FTC for the second time. For the first posting our children were 13, 11, and 5 and had an absolute ball at a gorgeous international school. To be totally honest we didn’t ask their opinions, we told them what would be happening and that it would be a great adventure and it wasn’t forever if we didnt love it. We were sad to move back to the UK but the kids learned so much from being there and gained enormous confidence in mixing with other nationalities and people.

Now we’re in the Middle East and the older boys are at uni in the UK and travelling in Australia. The youngest is now 13 and was really pushing for the overseas move as she loves a change of scenery! As others have said international schools and clubs seem to be very welcoming and friendly as they’re so used to people moving in and out and getting stuck into what’s on offer.

We had Christmas in Abu Dhabi, we’re just back from Thailand and have lots of other trips planned for the summer holidays and the older boys love coming here as there are lots of opportunities for travel.

Good luck with whatever you chose!

Thanks so much for this, great to hear your kids had such a positive time. Did your 13 year old find it any harder than your younger ones? And for your older ones now at uni, did you get home fees or are you paying international fees?

We are yes, we equally have a home in the UK, many family ties, proof of trips etc.
Basically, you apply, and then while you are waiting for your offer or even after you get your offer, they will ask you to complete a home fees questionnaire. And again, to be clear, it's anecdotal, but DC1 has at least two friends who had their offers increased when they tried to use the form to get home fees. We had always budgeted assuming International fees, so we went with the easy route - we will do the same for DC2.
But you are right, it is a bit of a roll of the dice, I've got a friend where one kid is on home fees, and one is on international two years later - different courses and different Uni.
I'd also add that if you take your kid to an international school, don't be surprised if they don't want to go to the UK. They'll have friends applying all over the world, and that could also swing their opinions. DC1 applied to Canada and the UK, and has UK-born friends from his old school currently studying in Holland, Australia and Canada.

Thank you! Yes, I have a friend who has been overseas almost her whole life with her DC and her eldest had offers with home fee status from unis such as Bath and Southampton. But equally. I know others paying international fees - it’s a bit of a risk for sure but like you if we did this we would budget for the international fees. We are lucky to also have EU passports so that widens options for them later.

It's the ideal time, just do it!

I agree it’s a fabulous country. KL itself has pros and cons like any big Asian mega city, but I am a big fan of Malaysia in general and would be so excited to live there. I just hope that if we decide to go I don’t get a lifetime of resentment from my DC. Although offering them a pretty good deal imo 😅

It's Malaysia not Indonesia. In any case public health in Asia tends to much stronger on infection control than the UK which has completely given up on preventing covid and other airborne disease. Masking is still prevalent in the region.

I would say to OP to go for it. Experiencing life abroad is a wonderful asset and will open up so much of the world to your children. International schools have amazing facilities and assuming your package comes with good health coverage then you will have access to top notch healthcare too. The travel opportunities in the region are amazing. There's also parkrun in Malaysia in case you are parkrunners.

Hi op. We have moved since the last year, albeit with much younger children than yours (the youngest is still a toddler). It’s an amazing opportunity especially if the school fees will be covered by your jobs. But are you tied in to that specific school? I’d really recommend visiting the school (and others) in person once you arrive before making such a huge decision. Schools can look excellent on paper but you’ll have much more insight once you and your children visit. I’d also be wary of the ‘international’ label as not all schools are truly international and you’ll find the vast majority may be from one specific place which can have an affect on the school culture. Not in a bad way, just need to think how your children will fit in and what your expectations are. What do your children think about the move? Have they visited before? It’s a big move leaving their friends behind at that age, that would be my main concern. But as you’ve mentioned in your previous response, it is a wonderful opportunity for your family. I’d just look a little deeper into the practical aspects.

Hey, thanks so much. I am tied to the school because actually my job offer is there! My DH job is not in a school. I have been really careful with the school as I know that there are a lot of poor quality international schools that are very weak and I certainly wouldn’t send my DC to. This one is the best British school in KL - the oldest not for profit so I am reasonably confident but we are going to take the kids for a visit in April if this all looks likely so they can see the school and city. You are right - the upheaval for them is of course the biggest concern and is what is making me waver

Ah I see. Well that’s great, as you’ll be at the school itself, you’ll truly see it from inside. A visit in April sounds great. It’s such a change in climate too, that’s usually the thing that puts some people off! The one thing I had in my mind was that nothing is forever, if one of us really didn’t like it, we could always come back. Best of luck with it all.

I’d get on that plane and not look back. Without shadow of a doubt it’ll be the best thing your children have ever experienced and you as a family all get to experience something fantastically enriching. You both have jobs too so no issue with there being a trailing spouse feeling unhappy (kids usually handle these moves brilliantly)

At the risk of being almost the only negative person on here, I really wouldn't. KL is not a favourite of mine, it's dirty, smelly, with huge issues around poverty. It's also an environmental nightmare for many reasons.
There are a lot of hugely oppressed Muslim women and there is a patriarchal attitude pretty much everywhere.
I would be very concerned about bringing a female teenager out here unless she is very assertive and certain in her views, and as for a male teenager, I would be concerned they would absorb the patriarchal culture.
Sorry. I've travelled all over the world and this country has huge issues.
As for cheap travel to Thailand, Vietnam etc, you can do that anyway.
Living in Singapore is hugely different to living in KL.

I see your job is in a school. What happens if you are ill and cannot fulfil the contract? My friend was sacked from her job teaching in an international school last year because she developed breast cancer. She was sacked in the middle of her treatment.

If you have to pay international fees will it wipe out any financial benefit of going in the first place?

Anecdotally the kids we know who have been dragged round the world for their parents' careers are not particularly well adjusted, no real sense of home, no experience in forming lasting friendships because the international school population is fairly transient. These are kids who have moved every 4-5 years though which isn't the same.

It massively depends on your dc and whether they would see this as a huge adventure or a traumatising event. Depends how melodramatic they are!

Not sure you can just waltz in after years of being away from the UK and claim home fees, that’s only in specific circumstances. If your kids aren’t prepared then to study at Malaysian universities then be prepared to pay international fees everywhere else. If my parents weren’t going to stump up over £100k for me in fees alone I’d resent them for that hugely.

I definitely said more than once further down that if home fees weren’t possible I’d ensure that we had budgeted for international fees.

I moved overseas at the end of year 7 and went to an international school. I was mixed on my view of the move at the time and definitely had wobbles at times when there (the international school was as much of a culture shock compared to my previous comprehensive as the international move tbh).

But looking back both my sister and I would say it was a great experience that hugely broadened our outlook and opportunities.

People come and go at international scbools, which can be a downside when your friends leave, but also makes it much easier to integrate and make friends.

One thing to bear in mind - after several years overseas your kids may be treated as international students (with corresponding fees) for UK universities. I’m not sure of the rules but I suspect worth checking and bearing in mind.

Frankly, I’d be surprised if the PP’s children absorbed much local culture at all, if none of the family speaks a local language other than English and they’re living in an expat bubble with the children attending an international school where one parent teaches. They will have left England but not really arrived anywhere else, other than a base for cheap travel within Asia.

That’s partly why I’m asking the OP whether she sees this as a potentially permanent move or a strictly temporary one.

To me, as well as the practical stuff about education, university fees etc, the key issue is ‘Where do I want my children to grow up?’ and ‘Where do I want my children to belong?’

Being a third culture kid works for some people, absolutely. But it’s not a decision I’d make lightly for my child. When we moved internationally with DS, it was a very careful decision. We know a fair few diplomats’ children, and raising a child without a ‘home culture’ is not something I’d do lightly.

This feels like a pretty one dimensional take and relies on some very broad assumptions. KL is hugely multicultural and people’s experiences vary massively depending on where and how they live.
I’m also really uncomfortable with the sweeping comments about Muslim women. That hasn’t matched my experience at all and many women are educated, working, outspoken and financially independent. Describing them as “hugely oppressed” feels more like a projection than an accurate picture of a very diverse society.
It’s fine not to like a place personally, but reducing an entire city and its people to these kinds of generalisations ‘dirty, smelly and patriarchal everywhere’ doesn’t feel fair or accurate.

We have friends who lived in Singapore (I understand it's not the same) for 12 years - the last child was born there...and the family recently relocated back to the UK primarily for the oldest child to have 3/4 years in the UK system and pay home fees. They were in an 'expat' bubble but were exposed to alot of the culture (e.g. food, festivals, practices) perhaps not so much the languages, but then father is British and mum is another culture.

Another friend left for America with their children a few years ago. I think both older children didn't like it and returned home - had to split the family up in the end with dad staying out there to finish the contract and mum returning with children in tow to re-start school. At the end of the day, it's all worked out but it was stressful then.

Another one has relocated elsewhere in the UK - daughter started at new school year 10 - and has flourished. I think it really depends on each child and family...and I think you've clearly thought it through and will have at least a fab week over there in April to ponder it through! Good luck.

We regret the things we don't do more than the things we do. Read that somewhere and think it's true.

Go for it.

Thank you - I totally appreciate your feelings around this but I do know the city well and disagree that it is universally dirty and smelly. Of course it has poverty - so does London and most other large mega cities. I would not be any more concerned about raising a girl or a boy here than in any other large city. I'm not worried about the location really, more the potential negative impact of my DC on a move at their age, particularly DD who is at a tricky age.

And certainly I've been someone who has regretted opportunities not taken in the past!

Thank you, your post shows that really anything can happen! I guess I have to decide if it's a risk I'm prepared to take and if I think there's enough in our favour to pull it off. I think the April visit will be important for everyone - for the DC to see the school and city properly, and for us to gauge their real feelings and if they are robust enough for this type of move.

I haven't been there but remember people saying (when I was abroad) that the traffic is dire - so be v careful that your house is near school, country club or whatever, and you don't spend forever sitting in traffic