Need to make decisions on possible middle east move by next week, help needed!

[renomama]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

My husband has been working from the UK on a consultancy contract for a few weeks, has been across to Riyadh where his work is currently based and will be going again.
He has now been asked if he'd be willing to relocate at the end of this current contract and continue the work over there. We have to decide by the end of next week.

He has no interest (and neither do I) in us moving to Riyadh but has voiced that we could move to another area and he can split his week between the two places (he currently does this a bit between Wales and London so that's ok ish)

What I need to understand, and fast, is how life then looks for us out there. He'll be on a very good salary so that's not a concern although I'm trying to get my head around cost of living and what we could be putting away in savings.

The places he's suggesting we look at are Jeddah, Abu Dhabi and Dubai.
We have two children, DD9 and DS6.

If anyone has any real experience of living in these places I'd be really keen to hear from you please. What is schooling like? What kinds of extra curricular activities are available? What does a typical weekend look like/what activities can you enjoy as a family?

And the major one, would you recommend it??

If anyone has any tips on where I can look at rental properties to get an idea of what we'd get for our budget that would be great!

Thank you

Well, of the 3 choices Dubai is the obvious one where you can have a daily normal uk style life - ie you can go out at the weekends and do “normal” stuff you are used to. Abi Dhabi is the similar but generally quieter and less westernised. Ive lived in both. Wouldn’t live in Jeddah or any place in Saudi no matter what the money due to the restrictions of women and freedoms in general.
There’s a million threads on here about Dubai and its evils, the bashers will be on this thread shortly, but the reality is a great many people live there and wouldn’t ever leave.

Gone back to an old username for this!

I don't see why you'd go to Jeddah and not Riyadh. If you are going to live in KSA, live where DH works.

I'd look at direct flights to the UAE - and also Bahrain.

We lived in KSA - in neither of the locations you've mentioned. School was OK - not academically brilliant, but more than adequate for primary. The after school offers were fabulous - both with school and on compound.

A summer weekend usually involved the mall, as a big space with AC! The mall also had soft play, an ice rink (!), etc. They were building the cinema as we left.
The rest of the year, beach (not from Riyadh very often, I'd have thought), parks, playground, socalising. Trips into the desert.

Housing was ££££.
Food depended on how local you ate. You want lurpack butter, kellogs rice krispies, and british cheddar, and you'll pay for it. Eat a more local diet and your food shop cost will plummet. Likewise you can go out for an expensive meal or a bargain one.
Petrol (and cars to some extent) was cheap.

We saved masses.

How long would you be going out for? I wouldn't want a daughter of mine out there as a teen. We came back for DS1 to go to secondary.

Would I recommend it?? That's the million dollar question! Both of us facing redundancy made the decision easier. It was great for DHs career. Has given the kids a very broad appreciation of other ways to live and a global perspective. It absolutely crashed my career. I'd say 3/4 of us benefited, and our bank balance looks healthy, even with my reduced earnings.

We left 5 years ago. Shout if you want more info, and I'll do what I can.

PS I also know a guy who left his family in the uk, and came back to visit every month. That was a tough gig, but possible if DHs work is in the vague area of the airport.

Thank you @GreenSand that's really helpful.

Jeddah was put on the table as DH has a (female) colleague there who loves it. It also has beach etc whereas Riyadh obviously doesn't. Totally understand your point about the same restrictions etc though.

Your point about your career is interesting. I work at a senior level but in local charity so never been anywhere near a decent let alone good salary. I would miss working though. I don't think I'd struggle coming back into similar although I also work in environment sector so location might be a tough one to explain away.....

We'd go for a year, perhaps two. Definitely back before High School I think.

What I want for it to be worth it is:

• a different experience for the kids
• a 'broadening of their horizons'
• To come home with a good bit tucked away

I lived in Dubai for a year, we hated it & moved back.

My family are in Bahrain and I would say it’s really nice and nothing like Saudi Arabia. You don’t have to cover your hair or wear an “abaya”, there are some pretty good schools, lots of cinemas, malls and activities for kids. It’s very “family oriented” and my kids love going there to see their cousins. I also lived and worked in Jeddah in the late ‘90s and I really liked it. It had real charm back then. My best friend is still there and she loves it!

If you’re only going for a year be careful on the tax - you may find you are liable to pay upon your return to the UK. Usually best to get a good 3 clear years outside the UK. Get good tax advice before you go.

All locations will tick all 3 boxes one way or another. However consider Dubai also for its status as major air travel hub and the opportunities for direct travel to pretty much anywhere. If you are in Saudi you may often find yourself tr waiting via Dubai first adding to the journey.
Saudi would also be compound living which would be major turn off for me. Some
people live it, but for me it’s like a glorified
prison camp and claustrophobic.

@Notmyreality great points thank you!
We will definitely look at some good tax advice!

Easy travel to other places is a huge plus for us so that's a good point re Dubai. That definitely falls under my giving the kids amazing experiences criteria too.

DH is going to visit a friend in compound living when he's there next week. I have an oddly jolly idea of it I think, like a nice tight knit community but I admit that's romanticising things somewhat!!

Since it's been suggested what's the Visa situation with regard to the OP living in Dubai or Bahrain but their partner working in KSA?

@notimagain That's something we've just been discussing actually. His initial contract would be with a consultancy company so that should be fine but it may switch to a direct contract in which case we may be restricted to being in KSA.

There are so many variables I can't keep up with myself atm!

You can definitely live in Bahrain with a spouse working in KSA.
Dont know about UAE, but would suspect so.

The tax is a very good call - it's one full tax year out, plus some restrictions on links and days back in the uk.

Check the rules about what happens to your children if you separated while there. While you have a good relationship now, it would be put under pressure by moving. You could find yourself in a situation where you have to leave and you’re not allowed to take your children.

While it’s good to think about the positives, think about worst case scenarios as well

Be aware of incredibly high costs to maintain even a basic expat lifestyle. A pretty high salary in the U.K. may be not even sufficient to cover your living costs in Dubai because you are paying for schools, healthcare etc and a lot for housing, services and so on. Definitely a consideration if there’s negotiation to be had.

Could it be an option if it’s only for a year for just him to move out there? Saves the upheaval of you and two children, understand this arrangement wouldn’t be for everyone though

For Dubai I suggest taking a look at The Sustainable City, a residential compound that friends of mine with young children had some happy years living in.

It’s reasonably common to live in AD or Dubai and have the husband commute to KSA.

Personally I’d pick AD as I love living here, but I haven’t personally experienced the ’commuting’ element.

As pp have pointed out, be careful of the package and lifestyle costs. You might find your husbands’ employer would only cover education and health costs if you are based in KSA.

Also consider the hit to your own career if you only plan to move for such a short time. My old career is ‘over’ with the move, but we see this as long term and I’m building something new here. If we’d only gone for 1-2 years that sacrifice would not have been worth it to me

Why did you hate it?

My lovely friend moved to Dubai a few years ago. The expat package included accommodation, all bills and schooling for the children plus about £1m. They had to stay away about 10 years for tax reasons or so, HMRC might charge you UK taxes if you come back within 5 years so be super careful. Just go if the salary is super attractive, the villa was about $12,000 a month so not cheap! Good luck we all want to leave the UK!!

I lived in Dubai until I was 4 and then lived in Abu Dhabi aged 8-10. This was in the 80s so I can’t comment on what it would be like living in UAE now but as a child it was amazing. The school was private and way ahead of UK. It had its own outdoor swimming pool complete with swimming teachers. I remember we would start school early in the day when it was cool, finish at 1.30pm and then spend the afternoon at our local beach/pool complex. I have such fond memories of that time and do feel it gave me a much broader perspective on life. It was hard when we had to return to England in year 6 however. Took a while for me to fit in.

I’m glad somebody else has mentioned this. Full custody being awarded to the DH would be my worst nightmare.

My friend did this and DH couldn’t get a job back in the uk that paid as well so it lasted longer than she wanted.The kids came to the uk for boarding school. She didn’t love it but felt stuck

1. What will DH employer cover

1. Make a list of everything it doesn't cover

School, travel, accomodation cost, flights home, bills, petrol. Loss of your income and career.

1. Work out an average cost for each of these things in each of to possible locations.

1. Add up these costs and compare with current costs and expected DH salary to work out if/ how much better off you would be.

1. Once you have that number, work out if that amount of money is worth the disruption to your lives, missing out on family etc etc.

1. Consider length of time. Consider alternatives like DH going on his own and you travelling at hokidats

I'm a school leader in Abu Dhabi and love it here. I've lived in Dubai too and AD is much nicer.

How would you and the children qualify for UAE residency if your DH isn't employed here?

Omg similar situ. Me and DH have an offer in Riyahd. Whats qrong with Riyahd. We are both Muslim and practicing so I cov3r qnyway and we both been to Hajj I spent time in Jeddah and hated it a massive mayhem city qnd I felt overwhelmer being from a small welsh Mountain town!

He has reached the limit of his salary potential in the UK and he is waaay to qualified for it now and he is bored. But the next level is director / ceo and not many of those going around where we are. We don't want to move to London I lived there for 2 years and hated it and don't want my kids growing up there.

Would love some insight into Riyahd. Day to day life, education, travel, obvs Muslim so a halal environment is the dream with msoques everywhere. We dont have any near us now. But going on pilgrimage and living there are 2 different things.
Any helpful advice and sincere, nothing nasty please as I posted elsewhere and juat got loads of trolls being naaty and childish.

@MixedBananasyou did get some horrible responses on the other thread, unfortunately whenever the UAE or Saudi are mentioned it brings those trolls out of the woodwork.

Really sorry I don’t have any experience of Saudi (although I do have a few years under my belt in the UAE).

The one wise thing I did see on the other thread was to check how far your husband’s salary would actually go. The Gulf may be tax free, but there are many other costs that ‘compensate’ …