[[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml Difference between French and Anglo-Saxon parenting styles

[Anna8888]

Loved this article - so true. What do you think?

is this the article you were after?

"Sophie's explanation is that France has one of the highest percentages of working mothers in Europe. "I am amazed at how fast they dash back to work, leaving three-month-old babies in the crèche," she adds."

That's odd - I'm sure I've heard before that France is family friendly and one of the reasons that is (and that lots of kid stuff is so much cheaper than here) is that most French mums were SAHMs....? Or is this Paris compared to rest of France do you think?

Yes, thank you, I totally failed at making the link

I want a middle ground

(although I secretly long for l'heure de l'adulte myself...)

Oh no, French mothers are NOT SAHMs - highest proportion of working women (inc mothers) in Europe - probably therefore in the developed world.

How bizarre.... wracks memory to try and work out who/where told me that the expectation was to stay at home in France...

Ah - I know why it is (after googling). Apparently France offers a home-care allowance to encourage SAHMs. So presumably that's to entice MORE mums to stay at home because it's not particularly a popular choice?

Anyway. Very interesting article, thanks for posting it

RubberDuck - there is a "congé parental" which is a sort of extended maternity leave that lasts for about three years that some mothers take. Actually, it is about protecting their employment rights rather than about encouraging SAHMs.

I also read recently that there are increasing numbers of SAHMs/congés parentaux for the first three years of a child's life among the most educated segments of the population. The message of the child psychologists on early years development is finally getting through.

Thanks, Anna.
I love the French even more now!

Just read in a British newspaper that a 'Total smacking ban looms'.
I wonder how the French expats living in the UK cope?!

well good creches are actually family friendly

I don't like these artificial opposites - Anglo-Saxon = loving = brattish
French = strict = well-behaved.

I am very loving in many ways, co-sleep, extended breastfeeding, SAHM, would never smack, blah blah, but still have high expectations of behaviour and my dd's are generally well behaved. So I think the French could have another think on this one!

I have a French friend and I never ever see her kiss or cuddle her children, which I thought was just her, but maybe it's more than that?

obv lots of cliches and stereotypes. def found French people I know to be stricter about eating/manners and all keen on nurseries even though they were not working themselves but apparently that is changing and more people are trying not to use nurseries as much. but all very loving with their children and no kicking/slapping that I saw at all so am quite shocked by that part of the article.

oh yes, forgot the bit about hospitals. I found it was expected that you 'hand your child over' and not question the treatment and there was no particular attention paid to the child eg having injections in the UK there are usually toys on hand, 2 nurses to distract etc, in France you get the jab and that is it. but - better care and cleaner hospitals so all swings and roundabouts

The congé parental is paid, but so little that few people can afford to take it (I can't...).

I've been told it's been increased, but have no details. Maybe the better educated take congé parentaux because they are often also better-off?

The article focuses on how some people (the ones we notice because they shock us?) bring up their children in France. I, too, am always stunned when the neighbour tells his 5-yr-old son he's going to shut him in the cellar and make him chop wood for hours as punishment for having committed some minor misdemeanour, or says (yesterday's classic), "if you fall off your bike and open that graze on your arm, I'll cut your arm off" .
However, I don't think it does make his son better behaved. Just a bit confused, since no matter how badly he behaves he has not yet had to chop wood in the dark with the spiders for company, and his arms are both still there.
IME as a teacher, the very upper echelons of French society bring up polite kids who chorus "bonjour" and trot off to violin lesons in pinafores and pigtails; the vast majority don't. There are all sorts of children in France, as there are everywhere, and many are badly behaved at school or elsewhere as a result of their strict upbringing, which they rebel against as soon as their parents' backs are turned.

I know many loving, Earth Mother types in France. Then again, I live in a world very unlike the 6ème arrondissement...

AuldAlliance - obviously you are right and there are lots of different segments of the population in France.

I very much agree that the harsh upbringing of small French children leads to confusion and no understanding of why they ought to behave well - hence the savage behaviour/rebellion as soon as they are out of the earshot of authority...

morocco - re the kicking/slapping. I have found that to be unfortunately very true and around here (17th arrondissement) have witnessed nounous hitting their charges in public with no particular provocation, in the street and in shops and, of course, in the playground, and found that no-one bats an eyelid. One of the many reasons I don't want to leave my child with a French nounou...

How do they say - chacun a son gout.

The French do appear a bit more robust in general, not just with their child rearing methods.

Many years ago in Paris I accompanied my very posh (but slightly impoverished) landlady taking her 8yo niece to a fantastic playground. I was shocked to see the girl - and many of the other children - constantly asking "what shall I do now?" - go play on the swings - "what shall I do now?" - go play on the climbing frame - "what shall I do now?" - go play on the slides - and so on. No initiative, no idea of freedom to play as they wished, without being under the control of adults.

I agree completely with the ideals of good manners, respect, l'heure de l'adulte, children being paraded at the dinner party and then sent back to their room, and so on. But there must be a middle ground - children need to know that they are loved, not threatened, that respect goes both ways, and that sometimes adults will bend towards them, not just all the other way. I don't think permissive Anmerican society has got it ight, either.

If that truly is representative of child rearing in France, I think it is deplorable. I would have a hard time not setting about some of those harsh French mothers with clenched fists.

I am actually pretty strict with my children (as I think are many mumsnetters). I certainly don't tolerate poor behaviour, but I wouldn't use any of the 'methods' described in the article to instill manners.

Lots of British parents hit their children and talk harshly to them. There are many many parks in the UK where the feature writer would have been equally shocked.

DaddyJ - robust or violent?

Fortunately my daughter is a very robust child, so I hope she will withstand the more violent treatment than that which she has had up until now when she starts school...

Psychotherapists/psychoanalysts in Paris have lots of work unravelling the violent upbringing of children once they have become unhappy adults - I know lots about it, its a big issue in the 40 something Parisian generation... and it still continues...

The writer of the article is a war correspondent so hardly someone who is easily shocked. Which makes her account of this even more worrying. That poor baby trying to catch up with his mother...

TBH many of the things she describes could have related to the way I was raised.

Kids were kids, and grown ups were grown ups and we were just expected to get on with it. I would never have been allowed to monopolise 'adult time'. No-one packed endless toys for me in the car, I was expected to amuse myself. No one provided me with different food options, it was eat it or leave it time.

I have noticed on our numerous French holidays that, by and large, it is the English families that entertain the kids; help with the sand castles, cricket on the sand. The French maman et papa sit, soak up the sun and leave the kids to get on with things. (there are obvious exceptions to this rule, but it does seem to be very common).

I'm a middle of the roader, me

I find such generalizations quite irritating to be honest. I wonder what the author would make after a tour of my local shopping center. The other day in Argos a little girl in a buggy (obviously bored by the whole experience) was having a good cry, for which she was completely ignored by her parents, very busy looking at the catalogue. She was then shut uo by a pocket of crisps. I think she would have had a much better morning in a French ecole maternelle.
See, I am making a generalization. But if the author can, I can't see why I shouldn't.

Reading this article from Belgium, I am tempted to draw comparisons with Belgian parenting styles.

Belgian parents are stricter then British parents, but 'smacking' in Belgium is frowned upon and I don't think I've ever seen it. Children here are simply expected to do what all other children do, it's common for babies from the age of 4 months to be in a creche full time, then go on to full time school at the age of 2 and a half. When I say full time, I mean 8.30am to 6pm or thereabouts. Holidays are filled with playschemes. This is seen as good for the child.

My flemish dh however is the exception to the rule - he is far less strict then me! I'm the one who insists on manners, bedtime routine etc.