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[[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml Difference between French and Anglo-Saxon parenting styles

112 replies

Anna8888 · 15/06/2007 21:01

Loved this article - so true. What do you think?

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Denmark · 17/06/2007 17:47

I live in a VERY small town so maybe the debat should be about parenting is different for busy "business" parents in Paris or parents who live in a little village/town, because I cannot not say I have seen anything like what is described in the article and my boyfriend cannot relate to it at all. He remember his childhood as very loving (no smacking AT ALL). And his parents are a I wrote before very loving and caring people.

Anna8888 · 17/06/2007 17:49

Yes Denmark, it would be a much more interesting contribution to the debate for you to describe your experience of French parenting than to deny that the one in the article is not true-to-life... both can co-exist

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ggglimpopo · 17/06/2007 17:54

I think that on the whole ( am generalising, obviously cannot speak for every french or english parent!), the French are much "stricter" with their children and children learn to conform and "be civilised" young. An insult here is "mal élevé", which means badly brought up, and manners really do count. Children learn to sit at table, to greet strangers with a kiss, to say good bye and look the person in the eye - very early on. There are no exceptions. Where an English parent would smile with amused exasperation at a child shredding her bread into crumbs and chucking it on the floor (seen a couple of weeks ago in a restaurant), this behaviour would not be tolerated by a manners conscious French parent.

I have seen parents wallop children here and no one bat an eye. Physical chastisement is common, obviously battering is not acceptable, but smacking setems to be.

When my ds was 2 and a half and in maternelle (nursery), his older sister at the same school was sick. The school rang me to come and get her and I decided, without prior notice, to pick up ds at the same time. I walked into a class of about 15 littlies - there was complete calm, some were 'reading' on a playmat, some were colouring, some were making paper collages. They all seemed happy and very content but there was no sign of the raucous chaos that I was used to in an English Nursery - no one was running around, or shouting, or crying. When I remarked to the teacher how calm and quiet it all was, she took me through to another room where another six or so children were asleep on little beds for the siesta. "This is the quiet time for the younger ones" she said. When I asked how she kept all those children quiet and happy and got half a dozen to sleep simultaneously, she looked at me as though I was mad and just said "Mais c'et normale, Madame".

This is a school, btw where my children were blissfully happy - and no corporal punishment was used at all.

On the other hand, I find the french to be generally very loving, interested and tactile parents and children are loved and cherished in society and are an integral part of daily life. In one pyrenean village, the village cafe serves the children from the local school first, before opening to the locals and the menus are posted weekly at all schools outside the school gates so that parents do not duplicate the (three course!) meals served to their children.

French nursery staff, teachers and hospital staff will kiss and hug the children. The large local hospital has benevolent "dormeuse" (dodgy spelling!) who are police checked but who come in every evening and help put the little ones to bed, play with the older children, read stories or settle fractious babies.......

Denmark · 17/06/2007 18:05

I don't say it is not true, I am sure that what she is describing in the article is true 100%. I said that I don't believe that the majority of the french parents are like this. I wrote that I could do the same article in England and Denmark because I could see similar situations in every country,. I have seen parents smacking their children in public in england and denmark. I have seen kids runnig after their parents and so on. I just want to point out that this article could just as well have been written about another country. The article make it sound like all most parents are like this in france and I that is not my opinion

Denmark · 17/06/2007 18:13

ggglimpopo I like what you are writting that is how I have experienced/is experiencing france as well. For me one of the things which I have allways conneted with france is family time. How important it is to have lunch and dinner together, to talk about what have happend an so on. We are the owner of a hotel and restaurant and every sunday lunch the restaurant is full of families with their children. The children are free to run outside (we have a large terasse) in between courses. They are not expected to finish their plate, but they will usually eat the same as everyone else. They are behaving nicely but it is OK to "be a child"

Anna8888 · 17/06/2007 20:05

ggg - I was also most impressed by the behaviour of groups of 3 and 4 year olds when we visited my daughter's future école maternelle - all sitting round tables quietly in their little navy blue "blouses", not a squeak from anyone.

But I do think that the "Lord of the Flies" description of the playground in the article was also true to life - the children round here sort of let rip when out of the earshot of authority.

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francagoestohollywood · 17/06/2007 20:43

But they do it here as well Anna. Had to break 4 fights in two hours at the party today. They are children, after all.

ggglimpopo · 17/06/2007 20:59

Talking about stereotypes and generalising about childrearing in France - the house opposite was finally done up a couple of years ago and the new tenants moved in - a Spanish Gypsy family. Mutters all round from the neighbours.

They are possibly the best neighbours you could imagine. The three little boys are dressed like Cyrillus adverts and go to mass with the mother every Sunday morning. The oldest son (around 10, I think) is a maths genius and takes part in national concourses (the father is illiterate) and when we had a family emergency a few weeks ago, I literally dumped my ds on them and ran, with no explanation necessary, as I knew he would be safe and well cared for.

They are the epitome of a model French family - but they are Gypsy and they are Spanish...

Anna - yes to the Lord of the Flies description but I wonder if that also stems from the fact that wild behaviour and badly behaved kids stick out a mile here.

I have become extremely intolerant of rude children (my sulky adolescent 15 year old included!) and am ashamed to say that I have heard myself do that tutting thing a child is bad mannered or when I see someones little darling running round a restaurant.

francagoestohollywood · 17/06/2007 21:04

Actually we fit the Italian stereotype quite well

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 08:03

Franca - the point is not whether children fight or not.

The point is that, when in the presence of adult authority, Parisian children can behave in an exemplary fashion but the minute they are away from adult control they become savages.

So they haven't learnt to control themselves at all. And this carries into adulthood - the Parisians outwardly obey the law but are always in fact trying to break/go around it. Ask any Parisian - they'll own up to that

IMO the whole point of education is self-control...

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Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 08:06

ggg - the children in my building, who I have the opportunity to witness several times a week both with their parents and at the playground, are all those clean, well-dressed, bonjour parroting children when you meet them in the hall or lift. And all totally wild at the playground...

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ggglimpopo · 18/06/2007 08:27

"So they haven't learnt to control themselves at all. And this carries into adulthood - the Parisians outwardly obey the law but are always in fact trying to break/go around it. Ask any Parisian - they'll own up to that"

I think that applies to almost anyone French. My last house had a huge undeclared inground swimmingpool (registered on tax documents by previous owners as small, unfiltered fishpond") and current house has a "dressing room" which the ex owners so named to knock a bedroom off the impot documents. As for orange/about to turn red lights, or double/triple parking, or eating handfuls of cherries in supermarkets, people are quite shameless.

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 08:38

ggg -

My parents-out-of-law, Parisian to the core, quite proudly say that now they are retired, they don't/won't queue anymore - they barge to the head of any queue or find roundabout ways of getting ahead. They think this is a legitimate reward for years of work...

BUT, I would say, talking to people here, that this type of constant low-key law-breaking behaviour, is less well tolerated among the younger generation that the old. And I think that the new-style presidential Sarkozy "famille recomposée" is also a sign of this - the old style Mitterrand hidden-mistress-and-daughter while maintaining outward appearances of propriety with the wife is old hat.

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ggglimpopo · 18/06/2007 09:06

My sil works for parliament and told me three years ago that Sego and Holland were seperated and she was living with a notaire. Glad to see in the spirit of openess that it has made headlines this morning. Another Mitterandesque secret.

As for Sarkozy's mistress, everyone knows that she is a Figaro journo, but woe betide the foolish who dare to print her name.....

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 09:14

Yes, obviously the Cécilia-Sarko household has plenty of goings on ahead... but at least it's public knowledge that their couple is rocky and they make no bones about their past lives.

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ggglimpopo · 18/06/2007 09:17

Juppé is out

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 09:18

Yes, big cheers here last night

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ggglimpopo · 18/06/2007 09:20

You don't know anyone looking for www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=2300&threadid=341159 &stamp=070618090653 do you Anna. She is looking for the UK but says she would love Paris.....

ggglimpopo · 18/06/2007 09:21

Forgot to add the word 'au pair' to the link

KTeePee · 18/06/2007 09:27

ggg, I thought of you when I read this article - I remember you having a hard time with one of your older girls a while back and saying that your (French) friends were having a much easier time with their teenagers - do you think the (generally) different approach with young children means teens are also less "challenging"?

I have heartd parents of teenagers say before that how much "work" you put into instilling good behaviour when they are toddlers influences how they are as teenagers....

margoandjerry · 18/06/2007 09:27

Interesting article. I don't know if it's true outside Paris but I used to be an au pair in a French family in the 16th - they were very posh. And their son was brought up very formally - school all day then chess lessons, tennis lessons, English lessons from me, every evening plus Saturdays.

One week his father made us translate a tourist guide about the Chateaux of the Loire from French into English - you can imagine the sort of thing: "the 17th century staircase was designed by the renowned architect LeBlah and its cantilevered structre echoes the herringbone patterned brickwork within the stairwell"....

That's when I knew I was not in Kansas any more!

The boy was 10 Actually he had a terrible relationship with his father - Papa used to come home and as soon as he got in the door he'd be yelling "Romain, TU SERAS PUNIS". Romain reacted to all this by being the naughtiest little boy imaginable. I often wonder what happened to him. He'd be 26 now

Not drawing any conclusions about French parenting generally from that because this particular family was exceptionally wealthy and weird.

Also I kind of hanker after well brought up children in this country given the number of times you, as an adult, get given grief by a poxy little 11 year old when you tell them not to drop litter or to get off their phone while in the cinema

Anna8888 · 18/06/2007 09:30

ggg - I'll scratch my head but it's getting very late in the day for organising summer holidays though (I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this ).

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finknottle · 18/06/2007 09:39

Ds1 had a bladder infection on holiday in France when he was little. The place we were staying rang the doctor who came back from her lunchbreak early to see him as she knew it's a painful infection esp for a child. She was lovely and also v helpful re the insurance forms etc. but what struck me most was that when we'd finished and about to go she called ds1 back for "One more thing" and pointed to her cheek that he should kiss her, the kissed him & ds2 roundly.
Always remember that.
German parenting can often veer with alarming speed between indulgence and screaming. "Hey, I don't know if that's such a good idea...." (to child climbing on the counter covered in light-switches & various electrical controls), "Careful now", "I really don't think that's a good thing to do", "GET DOWN FROM THERE NOW OR ELSE" - I've seen & heard that every week at PE for years...
The "or else" is never expanded on.

ggglimpopo · 18/06/2007 09:42

KTP, interestingly, dd1 and I have come out the other side.... thank God. Whereas some of those smugger French mothers now have weekly visits to the psychiatrist with little Thomas or Severine......

MandJ - I know a family a little like that. They have at least 8 kids, all with Alice Bands and blazers and a full rota of violin, scout marin, chess. Bless them.

KTeePee · 18/06/2007 09:43

Good to hear that ggg

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