Schenk ein den Wein - as autumn comes to Germany and Austria

[LinzerTorte]

Der Nebel steigt, es fällt das Laub;
schenk ein den Wein, den holden!
Wir wollen uns den grauen Tag
vergolden, ja vergolden!

A thread for all those living in Germany and Austria, and anyone else who would like to chat.

Always good to have an excuse to open some , and this poem seemed quite appropriate!

Oh, don't feel rubbish coco; you've obviously tried as hard as you can with bfing. Sounds like your midwife in England was quite strict; yes, it's great if you can bf but bottles are a perfectly acceptable alternative. I wasn't really given any information about either bfing or bottle feeding here or which I should be doing so I'm not sure what the stance here is, but I'm sure no one here would tell you that you have to bf (no one normal, at any rate). Totally agree about not understanding how something supposedly natural can be so hard; I used to sit feeding with tears streaming down my cheeks and thinking that it was worse than labour... (but it was great once I'd got the hang of it - I just wish it could have happened a bit more quickly).

Btw I didn't really start going out with DD1 until she was about 9 months so you're already doing better than me! I didn't have much choice with DD2 and DS, although I didn't really start going to baby groups etc. until they were down to one nap a day - none of them slept well when we were out and about and it wasn't worth the stress.

Hope the appointment goes well tomorrow, admylin; sounds like a good idea to ask the psychologist if she has any ideas.

Off to brave the paediatrician now; just have to catch DS first.

Thanks so much canella and linzer - I'm trying not to let it get me down - I have a close friend who had exactly the same experience about 6m ago and she went on to get really depressed about it - I told myself I would try to bf and if not, well I tried and not let it get to me. But now its me im this situation, I'm really disappointed. I think I didn't get going right (as I was home from hospital within a few hours of giving birth so doubt I was bfing right) and so never really got the hang of it. You're right though, the important thing is that ds is getting what he needs, and he's gaining weight well now so that's great. I will defo speak to the dr tomorrow.

Yes, sounds like a good idea to speak to the doctor tomorrow coco - they might be able to put you in touch with someone able to help if you do decide to continue trying to bf. I spoke to a lactation consultant (Stillberater) just after DD2 was born, and she gave me invaluable advice about using ice cubes for numbing purposes before latching the baby on! They have a Stillcafe every few months (!) in our town, but there are probably more regular Stilltreffs in Vienna, where you would be able to get advice and support too. Like Canella said though, bfing is only best if it's working for both mother and baby - and if it makes you feel stressed, that's not a good thing. The most important thing is that the baby is putting on weight, and it doesn't sound like you have any problems there.

Be prepared for some unusual Austrian ideas about health, however. You may well have come across the idea that you'll catch cold (or certain parts of your body may catch cold) if you get cold, particularly if you're in a draught. I had mastitis with DD2 and a nurse at the hospital told me that it had probably been caused by me getting caught in a draught when I was coming out of the shower. This was in July! (Admittedly, the nurse at my follow-up appointment said this was rubbish - but you'll find these kinds of ideas fairly common especially among my ILs.)

Well, DS had his injection - kicking and screaming; I had to hold one arm down and pin him to my lap, while the doctor held the other. Once he'd calmed down, about 10 minutes later, he told me that it didn't hurt as much as the last time and in fact he hadn't felt anything at all!

How lovely that you're taking so much stuff over, Admylin. It must be so hard to see the poverty so close up. I spent some time in South America for work a few years ago and was shocked by the rich-poor gap over there (even though 'rich' was really nothing in comparison to countries like the UK, US etc), but I was nowhere near as close to it as it sounds like you will be. How exciting for the DC to get to meet so much family at once!
I hope you manage to sort the dyslexia appointment - that really is sod's law, isn't it.

Love the idea that we are all actually random, hairy, old men

Platanos Sorry to hear the operation was cancelled. I hope you manage to get another appointment soon and can avoid staying overnight.

Canella So sorry about your friend. It's such a horrible thing to deal with losing someone close, especially at a young age.

Silken Enjoy your trip!

Linzer You're a vocabulary goldmine! I'll definitely be trying to drop 'die blaue Zeit' into conversation at some point. Might avoid 'einsetzen' if I can though :)

Coco I agree with the others - BF is only best if it works for mum and baby. I'm currently trying to BF my first (he's been on a mix of BF, FF and expressed milk) and it's really a trying task. I'm not sure on the position in Austria, but where I am in Germany it seems to be that the nurses, midwives etc are pro-BF, but not at the expense of the mother's or baby's health or sanity. In fact, when BF wasn't working in the hospital, they encouraged me to give him formula. I'd definitely try and get an appointment with a lactation consultant or a midwife/health visitor. (I'm certainly no expert, am VERY new to this BF business myself, DS is only 2 1/2 weeks old).
I hope you manage to make contact with a few more people in Vienna, the mother and baby groups sound like they could be a good thing. I hated it when we first moved here, not knowing anyone etc and found it really hard to get to know people. It sounds like there are a fair few people from the thread there (jealous!) which is nice.

Hope your day was as okay as it could be canella. Sorry to hear about your friend. It's just not fair.

Sorry also to hear about your friend Linzer. did you survive homework? can you not seperate them to do it? that is what we have to do here.

admylin - it's a bit late in the day, but I took my samsonite to a local suitcase shop, they could not fix it but they said they could send it off to Belgium to get fixed. In the end they could fix it (?) and I got it back within a week. Did you try a shop? could you try another one? Hope your daughter gets the support she needs - it sounds like a nightmare.

coco. I just want to echo what others have said, and encourage you not to beat yourself up about bf. Bf did not come naturally to me, it was a struggle and an emotional one. I always did mixed feeding, formula and breast, because I just felt exhausted and did not feel the baby was getting enough. With dd2 I gave up bf after 5 weeks - I got mastitis and then thrush. I visited a bf clinic and the dr (lots of times) but nothing helped. The shooting pains in my breasts were keeping me awake at night while baby slept. I decided to give up. But I felt the pressure to keep going, and got a strange reaction from the health visitor. When i told her my story (it was her first visit to me as she had been on holiday and replaced by another) she said; " you seem awfully cheerful for someone who has just gone through all that". I never understood what she meant, of course I was relieved, I had finally made decision, and was no longer in pain! It sounded as if she meant I "should be miserable for being such a failure". Hope the appointment goes well with dr! I have done the underground thing too, especially with a buggy as the route to the lift does not always pass the ticket validation point.

On pensions - in Spain my father got a pension from the Uk from the years he worked there...in the early 1960s. My mother worked one year in the Uk and gets a pension for that...about 5 pound a week!

later - but aren't we a very well informed bunch of random hairy old men?! Sounds like you got sensible advice at the hospital. How is little one doing?

Sorry about your friend canella. Hope your day has been ok.

Don't feel bad coco, bf-ing isn't always as simple as you'd expect. It's always taken me a while to feel comfortable with it.

Hope you have a great trip admylin. It sounds like an amazing opportunity for your dcs and fantastic that you can take so much stuff with you. I hope you get the dyslexia stuff sorted too. That is so frustrating for you.

I just had a letter talking about contributing to my pension in the UK again. I'm not sure about it, but as we don't know where we will settle, I might consider it. I had heard that keeping up with NI contributions entitles you to NHS treatment.

Enjoy your trip too silken.

Hope your dd's op gets rescheduled soon platanos.

Love the vocab lessons Linzer! Hope you have a really wonderful birthday celebration and enter the new decade in style!

Never heard the word 'handy' here in the States in nearly 3 and a half years. Cell or mobile (thanks to T-mobile).

Someone asked about Oktoberfest beer. That does get imported from Munich but the local breweries (which are actually quite good) make their own.

My goodness, Little House on the Prairie is actually on TV.

Interesting that mobile is used in the USA, Jenny. They hardly existed when I was there, even though they were already getting quite common in Germany - I would have expected it to be the other way round.

I also didn't realise that paying NI contributions entitles you to NHS treatment. I was still registered at the doctor's where my parents live for quite a few years and kept my medical card, but my mum went and told them I'd moved abroad when I kept being sent smear test reminders.

platanos Separating the DDs would definitely have been a good idea today; they do have separate desks upstairs, but usually prefer to do their homework on the dining table. DD1 was complaining to DH that she couldn't concentrate on her homework today as I was on the computer the whole time and distracting her! Surprisingly enough, however, he didn't pull his usual do-you-spend-the-entire-day-on-MN face.

DH didn't know what "die blaue Zeit" meant either until I explained it to him. He's useless, though; if we're talking to each other and I'm struggling to find the right word, he'll helpfully tell me what it is in English. Was talking to him about eyeliner the other day (goodness knows why), checked whether Kajalstift was the right word to use and he said "eyeliner?" He admitted he didn't have a clue what it is in German. (Have just checked on Leo and apparently der Eyeliner is a German word - not one that I've ever seen here, though.)

Have finally finished making my flashcards for tomorrow, so off to bed now before I fall asleep over the keyboard.

Is Leo a German dictionary site, Linzer? Have you registered with the Guardian teacher network yet? I'm not sure how much EFL stuff they have, but the German activities are pretty good. If you can link your laptop to a projector in the classroom it may preclude you making flashcards [hopeful emoticon]

Yes, its full address is dict.leo.org. I also use www.dict.cc and www.linguee.de, and www.proz.com/search/ can be useful too (I've also asked questions on there when I've been stuck on a term in a translation).

I haven't come across the Guardian teacher network, so will go and investigate now. Not sure the classrooms are high-tech enough to have a projector, though; I've never noticed one, but will check later today. Must admit I do find flashcards useful for playing games, especially in smaller groups, or sometimes I'll stick the cards on the board as the objects named and then ask one child to hand me a particular card.

another Leo user, here. :)

sorry about your friend canella hope your day was ok.

linzer I think if you said Eyeliner to someone speaking german they would know what you mean. weirdly enough, since I've started to speak english I have pretty much stopped using Anglizismen in german, I always feel like I have to use the proper german words.

thank you to those who have offered to send me specialities, I don't want to make anyone feel like I am a scrounger, but I would quite like that..

Postal rates have just gone up a ridiculous amount for parcels here, and DH has now banned me from sending parcels since I sent a book and a very small package to England last week and it came to ?20. Apparently anything that fits through a small slot is OK, so I can still send you DVDs Canella, but anything thicker is extortionate.

I joined a MN book swap club earlier this year when postage was still quite reasonable, but it now costs me almost ?14 to send the books on - it would be cheaper to have a new one sent from Amazon. (But if you'd like anything flat from Austria Ivy, I'd be happy to send it!) Luckily I'm planning to meet up with one of the other MNers in the book club in London later this month so will be able to give her the latest book in person.

Not very interesting fact of the day: Jupiter Jones was named after one of the detectives in Die Drei ??? (although I think he's called Justus something in German). That reminds me that I was going to look at the series to see if it would be any good for DD1, although I still haven't given her the Rottentodds book yet. She doesn't seem to have much time for reading with all the revision for her maths Schularbeit that DH is forcing encouraging her to do, anyway.

Justus Jonas, IIRC, Linzer :)
I suspect that those postage prices are the reason my mother rarely sends me stuff.. but then, I posted a parcel to a friend in the US this week, and that cost me £14 for just over 1kg..

The thing is, postal rates used to be quite reasonable before the prices went up - it used to cost about ?5 to send a book to the UK, but suddenly it's almost trebled! My parents do actually send us quite a lot of stuff, mainly because they have a large collection of unfranked stamps.

Have posted you 2 magazines ivy - one is a new one but the other was one from a few months back. Enjoy x

thank you :) I'll let you know when they get here. x

Ah the October weather has arrived...

Ivy I've just had a hunt through as I'm sure I had a stash of magazines knocking around that I hadn't quite gotten round to recycling but I can't find them anywhere :( If they turn up you're more than welcome to them.

Had the midwife round this morning as I was convinced DS was desperately ill, had been up all night worrying etc. Turns out everything is fine so we celebrated with a nice snuggly nap on the sofa this afternoon - bliss!

Postage prices actually went down here for certain things this year, so sending parcels to Canada etc is now a little cheaper. However, the price of sending a square birthday/wedding etc card instead of a thin rectangular one has skyrocketed - Frechheit!

My mum sent a load of chocolate, socks etc over at Christmas and the cost of postage was higher than the cost of the contents!

And shipping costs are ridiculous from the uk! I ended up being really frugal with what i've brought over and am missing some vital stuff! I am making use of a kindle that DH was bought as a present, though - didn't think i'd like it as i'm a bit if a book snob (love my books - had a ridiculous number of boxes of books from the shelves when we moved which didn't make the cut into the shipping stuff), but its great as fits into my bag alongside the mountain of things I need to carry around now. Any recommendations for reading, btw??

thanks for all the encouragement about the bf - decided to be more positive about it - am going to persevere a bit but try not to get hung up about it. Spoke to the dr today and she was great, gave me some tips and reinforced what you guys said about mum and baby needing to be happy. And am reallly impressed by the healthcare so far here - go Austria!

Am jealous that you get snuggly naps with your DS Later - mine fights his naps at the moment!

Also enjoying the new vocab Linzer - thanks! Am going to try to impress DH by slipping these in conversation when DH comes home tonight. Saying that, two people have answered me in English today when i tried to speak german. My accent must be really bad

I wouldn't take it personally, coco - a lot of people just want to try out their English and only need to detect the slightest accent to do so. What annoys me is when people talk English to the DC, even if they know that they can speak German. It generally seems to be the case that the worse their English, the more likely they are to do so... my SIL is an English teacher and never speaks English to the DC, but her DH - who has a very strange accent - likes to do so. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle against heppy börsday, Helloween, Spidermen, etc. as it is!

We were discussing books on the last thread and admylin had a couple of recommendations, but I can't remember the name of the author now. Of the books I've read recently, the ones I've most enjoyed have been The Help by Kathryn Stockett, Dissolution by C.J. Sanson, The Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger and American Wife by Curtis Sittenfeld - am quite happy to lend you any of them. I've also found three books in the cellar waiting to be taken to a charity shop (DH refuses to go to Caritas as they were quite unfriendly to him last time, and the only other place I know to take them is the Christ Church shop in the 3rd district - their Christmas bazaar is a great place to pick up cheap 2nd hand books, btw). None of them blew me away but you'd also be very welcome to them:
The Point of Rescue by Sophie Hannah (am just about to finish another one of hers)
When We Were Bad by Charlotte Mendelson
The Almost Moon by Alice Sebold (but really not sure whether I'd recommend it as I didn't enjoy it)
Yesterday's Houses by Mavis Cheek
I've also heard a lot of good things about When God Was a Rabbit; can't remember who it's by, but it's on my to-read shelf. Oh, and I have loads of magazines I could pass on too.

Yes, the healthcare is great here. I sometimes feel like life is an endless round of check-ups (have my Kontrolle at the gynae next week, need to make an appointment for a mammogram, my six-monthly check at the dermatologist's is due soon, and my annual Vorsorgeuntersuchung is due in November), but I really have nothing but praise for the system.

Later Glad it turned out there was no cause for concern; that must have been such a relief. Always good to be on the safe side with tiny babies, though.

Talking of Care-Pakete, some chocolate and DVDs arrived from my parents today, plus some London sticker books for the DC - it was cheaper to have them sent to my parents and for them to send them here than for me to pay for postage to Austria.

One more tip if you're missing home, coco - there's an M&S in Bratislava (just over an hour from us), which has a small food department, a cafe, and men's, women's and children's clothes (there's another, slightly smaller one next to the airport). We've also bought a few bits and pieces from the Early Learning Centre/Mothercare and there's a huge Tesco, although it doesn't have much in the way of British food unfortunately (but the non-food section is all British; I bought my slow cooker from there).

Made it to the UK and am forced to be on Mumsnet by dd sleeping in the same room as us .

coco I second the recommendation for The Help. I really enjoyed it. In fact I ended up with two copies, one of which is unread, so if anyone wants one, I'm happy to send it. I've also recently read A Fine Balance by Rohinton Mistry, which was gripping throughout, but I wouldn't recommend it to a hormonal new mum as it's quite upsetting in parts. Room by Emma Donaghue (sp?) I also enjoyed.

After I had dd, I discovered "baby sick lit" and sent my mum to scour the local charity shops for examples of the genre (I can't remember any titles apart from Shopaholic and Baby). She also bought me the Caper Court series, novels about barristers and their incestuous love affairs, maybe not worth buying full price, but very entertaining easy reads if they are cheap to download/bought secondhand. The first one is called The Pupil, can't remember the author off hand.

Re bf, I think maybe all the pressure currently put on women in the UK makes it harder for some to bf simply because they've been made to feel it's such a big deal. I managed to exclusively bf dd, but not without pain and bleeding nipples at the beginning (and ignoring hospital staff giving me warnings about dd's weight loss/slight jaundice). A nipple shield helped early on, plus the midwife from my ante-natal class was very supportive, but the main thing was, I had lots of milk and dd was able to get a good amount out whenever she fed (waking her up to feed, however, was not as easy). Maybe it was down to the Stilltee they gave me in the hospital (1 litre a day!) I certainly didn't really feel much pressure to bf, nor did I have any real knowledge of the problems many women have trying to do it. I'm sure worrying about everything in advance and thinking you will have "failed" if you can't bf must inhibit milk production in some women, just as actively ttc seems to make it harder to conceive for some couples.

Linzer do you get your flash cards from mes-english.com? There are lots of great game suggestions on there, plus a bingo card generator. Lesson planning does definitely get faster, btw.

jenny will also check out that Guardian site. Thanks for the tip.

Wow, mammoth post! I was going to start listing all the things that are great about the UK for ivy's benefit, but I don't want to make anyone homesick

free public toilets, online grocery shopping, good TV, queues, gingerbread all year round, no catching colds/pneumonia from draughts...

Er, I wrote that last night, but the internet connection was down when I tried to post.

Hope you're having a lovely time in the UK, silken - and better weather than we are here (it's been pouring with rain ever since I got up this morning).

Yes, I've used mes-english quite a bit for flashcards etc. - haven't used it for games though, so I'll have a look at those. Another site I find useful for flashcards and worksheets is ESL-Kids.com - they're also one of the few sites that do A5 flashcards (A4 uses up too much paper, ink and laminating pouches and is too big for small groups, and anything smaller than A5 is no good for a class of 20+ children).

Ah yes, had forgotten about Stilltee. They're very into fennel tea (for both mother and baby) here too. I drank both and quite liked the taste, although whether they actually made any difference is another matter - I'm sure I produced most milk with DD1, when I was drinking nothing but water.

Must go and get things ready for today's English lesson. We're doing fruit today so I've bought some real fruit for them to try - DD1 is always complaining that she's hungry during the lesson, anyway, so hopefully this will keep her quiet for once!

Ooh, hadn't heard of Stilltee - will investigate. MIL put me on the fennel tea too which I hadn't thought of. Agree it tastes quite nice - and stops me reaching for coffee...

Great book suggestions - thanks everyone. I loved the Time Traveller's Wife - one of my favs. Will try the Help and some of the others I think. Never heard of 'baby sick lit' - but sounds fun. Probably will park the upsetting book for now, silken - bit of homesickness coupled with hormones probably means this type of book not best for me at present! Thanks for the offer of magazines Linzer woudl be great - I don't know why I didn't think of bringing a stack with me. Hormone-brain again I guess. Not sure if i have anything useful to reciprocate, but maybe i'll have something at some point.

Quick question for you all - Dr yesterday prescribed vitamin d3 drops for DS - saying that is was standard practice in Austria and Germany because the formula doesn't contain vitd3, whereas it does in uk and usa. All sounded reasonable at the time, but I've just checked the formula i'm using (Aptamil) and it has the same amount of vitd3 than a packet I had from the uk. I've googled, and there doesn't seem to be harm in using it, but just wondered whether you had any experience of this? I've emailed some friends about this, but none of them had heard of this.

DH has just heard that he's got to go to Germany on business for 3 days next week, which is a bit daunting for me seeing as we've only been here a week today. Not quite sure what I'm going to do with myself, and the weather has turned, so my 'getting out of the house everyday' won't be so appealing - but stacking up on the books is a start. That and skype and MN.

Not sure about the vitamin drops I'm afraid coco; I vaguely remember being prescribed vitamin drops when the DC were babies (have just checked in a Mutter-Kind-Pass and it was indeed vitamin D) but they didn't have formula so "double dosage" was never really an issue. A friend of mine here is a doctor (gynae, but she has young children) so I can ask her about it when I see her next week if you like.

I can empathise re your DH going away; I've got used to DH's travelling now, which isn't as much as it was anyway, but used to find it really difficult when the DC were younger, especially if he was away over a weekend or a fairly long period. It must be especially hard with you still settling in. Will send you some magazines asap if you PM me your address! Any preferences? (I have everything from trashy sleb mags that a friend passes on to me to Red/Marie Claire/Company/Good Housekeeping/woman&home).

Would also second silken's recommendation of Room, btw (one of the books I read for my swap club).

The English lesson was quite hard work today as the girls were all so lively; well, more than lively really - silly and playing up a bit. I'd thought the other group was harder work, as the two boys in that are quite boisterous, but the three girls are all very quiet and well-behaved.

Off to take DD1 to her dyslexia tutor now, and then drop off DD2 and her friend at a birthday party.

Hi everyone, agree totally about the breastfeeding. I had my hebamme giving me tips and wierd things to try like covering my nipples with quark, silk pads down bra, some sort of metal nipple caps and disgusting tasting teas but nothing helped. I felt much better when I gave up and didn't have to dread the next feed.

Can any of the more musically inclined please direct me to a website maybe with the following: Einen e und b moll tonleiter.

Dd has to write these 2 tonleiter but in her 2 music books from school we can't find anything that looks like it's that and online I can't even recognise what I'm looking for. Honestly, the teacher thinks they should be able to do it but I don't see how if she hasn't taught it.

I've just read Room, it was good but some how disturbing too.

VitD, I remember we had little tablets too for ages from the doctor. Also remember no one in UK had them.

Jenny, little house on the prairie is on her etoo - the dc watch it if they'r eoff school ill, it's unsere kleine farm I think! I read the whole series to the dc when they were younger, lovely books.

Silken, how long are you staying in UK? Hope you have a great time and good shopping!

Dd's birthday today but she's celebrating tomorrow. Right now she's playing with her nintendo as she got a new game. Dh is stressed again, they've messed his pay up again, so ?500 short out of the blue. Now he's had to waste time running about trying to find out why. It's sort of an insult when he works so hard and he's just been given responsability for 3 new students which is alot of work as each one has their own individual thesis to work on and need guidance, help to set up etc. He reckons it's maybe sorted out but we get to feel the brunt of it all - that ?500 is ?500 less for our holiday.