Schenk ein den Wein - as autumn comes to Germany and Austria

[LinzerTorte]

Der Nebel steigt, es fällt das Laub;
schenk ein den Wein, den holden!
Wir wollen uns den grauen Tag
vergolden, ja vergolden!

A thread for all those living in Germany and Austria, and anyone else who would like to chat.

Always good to have an excuse to open some , and this poem seemed quite appropriate!

silken ORT is a mix of sight words and sound blending, but they are reading books - though these is a series called Floppy's Phonics which may teach phonics, the regular books are story books at graded levels . level 1 is only pictures, levels 1-4 roughly reception standard, and so on...

I taught dd to read in English using Jolly Phonics, then used an Usbourne phonics collection first (just one book with about 4 stories, all very simple and readable using just phonics and one or 2 unavoidable sight words, like "the" - the collection is called Fat Cat" I think), then the ORT books to actually read, as there are many "sight words" in English which you just have to learn to recognise (around 100 are essential to read a tabloid). Teaching children to read is a subject very prone to changes in fashion, but teaching phonics initially and then sight words is a fairly uncontroversial method that works for most children.

Absolutely use sounds not names initially, both Eng and German schools teach sounds first then names. Think about how you say the sound too - ssssssss not "suh" for S etc.

We have excellent Leapfrog fridge magnets that sing the letter sounds and names, dd knew her alphabet and a lot of letters from them before she turned 2, so I recommend them. Her learning goes in fits and starts tough and she seems to rush ahead of her peers, then loose interest for an extended period before picking up again, so despite early interest she would be average for her age in the uk system now I think. Good luck - I recommend the magnets and Jolly Phonics, but wouldn't push it at 2 unless she is super interested.

Sorry - phonics story collection is called 'Phonics Stories, Frog on a log and other stories', Fat Cat is just one of the stories in the collection.

Jolly Phonics scheme goes really slow as it is aimed at English reception children, and some preschools use it - there are colouring sheets, characters and mimi stories and hand movements for each sound (not only the letters but diagraohs like "th", "ch" "sh" "oo" etc. etc., and Finger Phonics is great for little ones too - it is an old Monessori method where they learn the letter shapes through "muscle memory" by tracing a textured letter with their finger.

silken Yes, as 5more says, ORT is more about recognising words by sight than phonics - Level 1 starts off with very basic words (we must have a different series, 5more - I have Read at Home) and the levels gradually get more and more advanced.

I have mixed feelings about phonics, although it's supposed to be the best way for children to learn if they struggle with reading and I think everyone recommends sounding out letters rather than pronouncing them in the traditional way (ah, buh, cuh etc rather than ay, bee, see). I did Finger Phonics with DD1, found it very time-consuming (although the DDs loved it), she didn't learn to read at all and really struggled with reading at school - although I should point out that she would probably have struggled with any method, as she's dyslexic.

DD2 had already done the groundwork as she did Finger Phonics alongside DD1, and more or less taught herself to read just from us looking at "normal" books. Another friend of mine recommended the ORT series, which I bought for DS; he really enjoys reading them but I think that being able to recognise your letters before starting the ORT books is probably the most sensible approach. If DS doesn't recognise a word, he can often sound it out (although he's quite lazy and will just guess a lot of the time). However, I think I'll need to make more of an effort to "teach" him before he starts school than I did with DD2, who was already reading fluently and writing little letters at this age - as long as they're interested, I don't see anything wrong with children learning to read before they start school.

The Phonics Stories collection looks really good, 5more. Fat Cat on a Mat and other tales (12 stories plus CD) looks to be better value than Frog on the Log and other stories (only 6 stories but more expensive on Amazon).

There has been projectile vomit here, just after I posted before ... bet you all wanted to know that... Guess the virus that triggered DS1's croup isn't a simple cold, as he wasn't coughing, in fact he was sound asleep... Luckily the covers come off the sofa he was on... 1/4 of my living room floor is now very clean and shiney, and DD and her friend who was here playing did good babysitting of very put out baby who had fallen asleep on my knee about 10 mins before the vomit erupted... DS1 went back to sleep as soon as I had cleaned up and re-made up his sofa with blankets... DS2 didn't though, but he is playing on the floor with dd...

We have a couple of ORT 'read it at home' (Funny Fish is one) and a mixed pack of level 1-3 as used in schools, which includes 2 level 1 books with pictures only (meant to encourage prediction, which is actually part of the wider skill of reading even at higher levels, so guessing rather than sounding out isn't 100% bad...) then level 1+ has only a few words per page eg. "What's that?" ... I bought a 6 book pack of level 4 (the magic key gets introduced) and have ordered a 6 book pack of level 5 (looks like the stories get more magical/ fantasy based, but with the same characters, and a bit more complex). The levels are slightly different in the beginning and then come together - I looked it up on the ORT website a while ago, mainly to see where dd is in relation to her UK peers.

DD is funny as she has been writing notes and reading random words written here and there since she was 4, but refused to attempt a book for a long time, preferring me to read to her - fear of getting it wrong maybe? When she spelt things phonically she said she was spelling things "her way" and I went along with it, as a reception class teacher in the UK would, but you can't really read things your own way, it's just right or wrong, which I don't think she liked initially.

My thinking on the anti learning to read before school feeling among parents here is that it is misplaced. I think the 3 girls in dd's class who (according to her) could read fluently when they started school may well be bored out of their minds, except that they are all 3 sweet little things who are quite eager to please so probably will be OK. However I think knowing your letters and being able to blend sounds in English is a good level of advantage when beginning the first class, and allows the school work to come easily and the child to feel confident, as quite apart from the work everything about the school situation is new, the work is almost a side issue! Some of the kids who only knew the letters in their own names when they started really seem to be struggling a bit, but then perhaps kids who get to 6.5 or 7 without having had curiosity to learn a little more would have struggled anyway - even 4 yo DS1, who is not especially interested in reading, recognises perhaps 10 letters - the one in his name plus his sisters and "M for mummy" etc. and he knows "about" far more letters - telling me at random and for no obvious reason "table starts with t" even though he would not recognise the letter written down, for example. I find it hard to understand how kids (assuming they are without difficulties such as dyslexia of course) get to starting school at 6 or 7 and really be totally clueless about letter sounds if their natural curiosity has not been totally stonewalled by their parents tbh!

Linzer I have also just bought a new series that looks really good - it is an Usbourne progressive series of 15 books, the idea being the parent reads the left hand page and the child the right hand one, allowing the stories to be more interesting than in regular first reader books. The early ones in the series will be too easy for dd but they will come in for the boys :) I think the reading together element will appeal to dd as she likes to read speech bubbles etc. within longer blocks of text in certain stories that are laid out that way.

This is the series but I didn't pay that much - price seems to have gone up!

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1409522547

Haven't given it to the kids yet, am either saving it for Christmas or some other opportune moment...

Thanks for the tips and for not flaming me as a pushy parent .

I'd read about Montessori sandpaper letters, but hadn't come across the term Finger Phonics before, so will google that. The Leapfrog magnets sound ideal as well, but I will have to find somewhere to put a magnetic noticeboard for DD as our fridge has a cupboard door attached to the front.

Oh no 5more, hope your DS is feeling better soon and that the rest of you don't catch it. Hope your DC avoid the sickness bug too, hupa - my heart sinks as soon as I hear there's a D&V bug going round. Glad to hear your DD can go back to KiGa silken, and fingers crossed that she avoids catching HF&M.

I totally agree about the anti-reading-before-school sentiment that's so widespread and am also quite surprised that so few children can read when they start school here - there was only one other boy who could read in DD2's class and none at all in DD1's AFAIK - considering that I'm sure a good proportion of children can read at least a little when they start in the UK at 4/5. Also, I think that the few children who are motivated enough to be reading before they start school are the type of children who are unlikely to be bored (I lost count of the number of people who warned me about DD2 being bored at school). The Usbourne series looks good, although I'm not sure I can justify spending that amount on it... am considering getting the Fat Cat on a Mat series though, as I want to start making more of an effort with DS's reading again. I just don't seem to have had the time to do so recently, although he does really enjoy it when we get the ORT books out.

silken I bought a set of 12 ORT Read at Home books from Redhouse a while ago (they don't deliver outside the UK unfortunately, but have some good offers) and then bought the complete set a while later, so have a few duplicates (levels 1-4 a, b and c I think). This is the set I originally bought - you'd be welcome to have the duplicates if you'd like them. They're at my parents' at the moment but I'll be back there for Christmas so just let me know if you'd like them.

silken I would never have actively taught my kids to read English in the UK, beyond obviously responding to their questions, but I wouldn't have bought resources as I have here - for me it is primarily about ensuring my kids are bi-literate, which is an essential part of being really, truly bilingual imo.

I think my concern about the kids being biliterate and really, genuinely bilingual stems in part from an English guy DH and I used to know years ago in the UK who we didn't even realise had grown up in France, til we went on a motorbike holiday with him and some others to France and discovered and enquired about his fluent French. He revealed that he had been born and grown up in France (English parents) and returned to the UK for university, and never moved back to France. He said that despite being fluent in 2 languages he wished he was totally comfortable in just 1 instead, as he felt he'd missed out on things in both cultures due to his upbringing, and knowing the bog standard childhood literary classics, right from Peter and Jane - as it was in our day - through to young adult books most people have read at school, was one of the things he mentioned which stuck with me. Also he said he felt awkward writing in English as his spelling was bad (although that could have been the case anyway) and he felt his vocabulary had gaps. I really want my kids to feel as comfortable with English as they would had they grown up in the UK.

So for us on this thread teaching our children to read in English is not about being pushy, it is about our children's cultural identity :)

Although it also helps at school...

Hi everyone, had a monster work week taking in a trip to Geneva and also a rather sensitive bit of emergency work. Sensitive as it goes before the CEO on Monday... so, it's considered a bit critical by my manager

LaterAlligator I've been doing this for 16 years now. No planned career-path just lots of happy co-incidences and opportunities. I'd not planned the move to Holland and hadn't even visited Amsterdam when I took the job offer there. I had a long-term relationship that was dying a slow death and girl I worked with had applied for that job in Holland- she got it but then turned it down for a better offer in Switzerland and it went back on the vacant board. I hadn't seen the first advert but I went for it and got it. Glad your BF is settled down. Once you've cracked it you can pretty much slow down/ stop whenever it suits you to.

LinzerTorte South of Vienna does seem expensive to me. We're about to start looking and there seems to be a huge number of places with a pool- that I really don't want. However, the only non-pool houses seem to come with eye-assaulting 1960s full-wood interiors that will mean nearly a complete redoing.

Hi emkana and nametapes- we're not forces here but are you expecting to make a Germany rotation yourself?

admylin sorry you lost both gerbils now. Can you persuade her they want to go live in the mountains and just bury them in a forrest somewhere in a small shoebox? I've no idea what else you could do with them without a garden unless you had a kind neighbour that wouldn't mind it?

Regarding Du/ Sie-ing, it only took my BIL 6 years to get to Du status with his boss (in a bank). I am certain that my colleagues find me really a bit informal but they are coping. My German is very poor so I doubt then even notice the Du/ Sie as they wince at all the other errors and try to work out what on earth I mean. My best German is sadly work-related as I've done a lot of projects with that team so Lager/ Leergut and Raffung all fine but I can't make much polite chit-chat.

Also, regarding bare essential housework and "only" washing towels once a week... I'm afraid I'm not near that level. Mine go in the wash only very irregularly when I remember/ notice they pong a bit!

I braved the hairdresser last week and she pretty much refused to cut my hair as short as I asked! I'm like a dull bob cut short enough that I can leave it for a long time of 3-6 months until it really needs doing again. She said I was too tall (and would look like a man). Anyway. It's sort of a bob and at least tidy again.

This week we needed for the second time ever a bridge babysitter (DH was coming back from Duesseldorf but arriving home a few hours I was long gone to Geneva and after the nanny finishes) so on BILs birthday he had to change a nappy for the first time in preparation for his cover stint. It was only two hours and I think he survived it OK but he said it was exhausting- DD kept bringing him toys and running around. He and SIL are certainly trying for a baby at the moment but we haven't talked about that directly (DH saw some preggo/ tablets things at their house a few months ago)- hope we haven't put him right off the idea now!

And at last the weekend comes! Hope all your plans are fun.

I like your reasoning, 5more. But yes, I'd like the DC to be familiar with English (children's) literature; I'm reading Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to them as their bedtime story atm (DD2 pointed out earlier this evening that "my teacher would say fäctorry" - as long as they can pronounce their a's properly, I'm not too concerned about a slight Austrian accent!) and DD2 has just discovered the Rainbow Fairies series (not sure they could be classed as literature, though). I also bought a couple of Wishing Chair books when we were in London as they loved the Magic Faraway Tree series - it took me back too!

C4ro It depends where you look, really - we used to rent in Bad Vöslau, which is only a couple of miles down the road but far cheaper. Also much smaller with much less to do, but I suppose you get what you pay for. There's very little on the market here and most older houses we looked at were just awful (I'm sure the nicer ones are all sold by word of mouth), so we found that a newbuild was the way to go. I wouldn't want a pool either, but I only know one family with one - and it takes up about half their garden.

I shall have to look up Raffung - I only know it in connection with clothes (gather) as I used to translate a couple of fashion magazines. I should know it really as I used to work in logistics (as a translator) - actually it was more EHS, but it was nominally part of the logistics area.

We're going to the Anglican church's Christmas bazaar tomorrow, which should be good, but otherwise my weekend is probably going to be taken up with work. Talking of which, must get back to it.

gggrrrrr

dh is now ill

the dog is sleeping
ds is sleeping
dh is sleeping

C4ro I find it odd when hairdressers won't give the client the hair cut they ask for - surely they could express their reservations but still do the cut? Funny. I haven't been to the hairdresser since a couple of weeks before DC3 was born - luckily my hair is just long and wavy and the ends are not splitting yetso it doesn't really matter, but the grey is showing now :( Packet dyes don't hold in my hair and I really need it coloured properly - I'll go when the separation anxiety phase wanes, I guess - maybe I'll get it done in time for his first birthday party!!!

Rushing around internationally for work sounds like another world these days, can barely imagine it! Idea of your BIL changing his first nappy is funny - first nappy my DH ever changed was our DD's meconium nappy! Sorry that's probably spelt wrong... baptism of fire nappy wise though! She was born in the UK, the nurses changed the boys first nappies here in Germany.

Hope you get the work done Linzer how annoying having to spend all weekend working.

Cinders who got you up at 6am on a Sat, a DC presumably? Hope your DH is better soon?

I had my best night's sleep in about 6 weeks last night strangely - went to bed when everyone was finally settled at 9pm, and nobody woke til 4am!! Boys took it in turns waking after that, but that is the first 6+ hour block in so long! Could barely believe it when I looked at the clock when DS2 woke crying and I saw it was already 4am, actually felt slightly disorientated! :) DH tried to get up with DS2 and Dd when they got up for the day but DS2 just howled til I came down anyway and wouldn't eat his breakfast for DH - at least he tried I guess, mostly DH will get up with the big 2 at the weekends but this is the first time he has tried to get up with the baby and leave me in bed.

Hope everyone has good weekends - we need to go to the library later this morning and have ice skating tomorrow - hope DS1 is well enough by then. Was hoping to swim with the kids every Sat now we have found the nice pool, but will be giving that a miss this week given ill/ recuperating DS1 and snotty baby.

Linzertorte Raffung is indeed a process of gathering- for logistics it describes what they do with incoming pick-orders for the warehouse. Basically just wait for the orders on the fastest moving product lines to stack up and make it possible to pick a pallet full (maybe 40 or 50 items) instead of going to the same pickface 20 or 30 times for the orders separately.

We've just hit a patch where DD seems to get either night terrors or disrupted sleep a bit.

5moreminutes It was a little weird to get such pushback from the hairdresser- that's not happened before, they normally pretend to listen but then cut your hair however they intended anyway if that's what they plan to do! This was quite a blunt "that won't suit you" but I don't much mind, it turned out alright.

BIL here again today mooching about- his wife works 1 in 3 Saturdays and he was a bit bored. He didn't leap at the chance to do any more nappies though. Still debating amongst us if we have to go and see the great-grandparents tomorrow over in Steyr, there was a 93rd birthday a week ago so we should go in the next few weeks at some point. It's a long run so means a day gone for a short lunch (and no Bratislava run for me for the 3rd week since I decided I'd like to go there).

the dog has gone on a sleepover to dds

so I shall not be getting up very early tomorrow.

Am trying very very very hard to ignore ds bad behaviour
and yawn it has been a long day ,,
but lunch out was good

OOhh I need to go to Bratslavia again,

Cinders your posts remind me of ee cummings poems - my favourite is 'nobody loses all the time' ...

am I allowed to say that? It's not bad, just a little cryptic...

:)

Have finished work for the day (or should that be night?), so just time for a quick catch-up. I only worked for about an hour this afternoon and then another couple of hours this evening, but have got everything done that I'd planned for the day work-wise. We went to the Advent market this morning, which was good but didn't feel as Christmassy as it had done in previous years (the fact that it seems to be getting earlier and earlier doesn't help - it always used to be early December) and I didn't manage to find as many books as usual either. We then braved the hell that is the SCS on a Saturday afternoon in the run-up to Christmas (anyone near Vienna will know what I mean), but have a working sat nav again thanks to a new cable and also splashed out on three pairs of ice skates.

Cinders Hope you're able to have a lie-in tomorrow (and an early night tonight).

C4ro Sorry to hear you're missing out on the Bratislava trip again; if it's any consolation, M&S is likely to have more Christmas stuff now - there was nothing in late October, although M&S in London already had lots of Christmas goods.
Hairdressers never used to cut my hair as short as I wanted as they claimed it would "bounce back up", although it's better now that I dry it straight(ish). I must find out the German for "grow out the layers" as the hairdresser gave me more of a layered cut than I wanted last time (DH is useless with that kind of vocab so never any help).

5more Hope you have a good night's sleep again tonight - a shame you couldn't manage a lie-in, but at least your DH tried. We're planning on going ice skating tomorrow too; it will probably just be me and the girls skating, but DD2 would like DH to come and watch so I think we'll all go.

yes to the early night

failed at the lie in

dh is still ill
claiming now if he goes to work tomorrow he is risking his health

fiveminutesmore

I went and googled that poem

I am no poet
just a hopeless speller

another e.e.cummings fan here

my favourite is
the great advantage of being alive

although
at our wedding
we had
there are so many tictoc clocks
(it was the first day of Spring)

I now want "nobody loses all the time" at my funeral .

Well, we ended up at the grandparents on Sunday. They only eat at certain restaurants which is a bit limiting but they like what they're used to now (93/94). Oma always tries to hand out random stuff and we nearly came away with a set of glass coasters and some teacups this time!

Skyrim (PC game) arrived here last week so I've had some fun nights on that. SIL also games and she said mediamarkt has it for 40 Euros but even with postage and tax added, I got mine from amazon.co.uk for 35 Euros all-in. Also the ones in the shop here don't have English option apparently. I've not previously tried cost-comparing .de/.co.uk amazon- has anyone more patient noticed the differences?

cinders are you in Austria or Germany? I hate sickness, my own for sure but I'm not at all good at caring so it's worse for DH when he gets sick!

C4ro I'm always comparing amazon.co.uk vs .de prices! (Bored in pregnancy & now constantly feeding baby)

I find it depends on what you are looking for - for British dvds, books etc plus a lot of US stuff it's much cheaper to buy from UK Amazon including p&p, but for everything else I find .de cheaper. The price difference is sometimes eye-watering! Some bits I have ordered have been about 8 quid on .co.uk and over ?25 on .de so it's definitely worth a look!

Cinders I hope you get your lie-in soon!

Silken I had to reread your last post a few times as I thought it was a poem - it took me a few reads to realise you were talking about your own wedding

silken You had me confused for a moment too - I thought you were a completely different poster.

C4ro Like Later says, it really depends on what you're buying. I bought my iPod from the UK site as it was quite a bit cheaper than from Amazon.de (although having just checked now, there no longer seems to be a huge difference), but sometimes automatically buy from .de and forget to check the prices on co.uk. If I do buy from the UK site, I often get my order sent to my parents - especially if we have a visit coming up and/or it's something I don't need urgently.

At any rate, MediaMarkt seems to be one of the most expensive places to buy from (not to mention being a nightmare to visit on a Saturday). We were mad enough to go there last Saturday as we needed a new cable for our sat nav and were told a replacement would cost ?50 - it was ?16 on Amazon.de!

Cinders Hope your DH is better soon. (DH drives me mad when he's ill. I also get particularly annoyed by the fact that he can simply stay off work and go to bed - not an option for me!)

I suddenly remembered late Saturday afternoon that it's our turn to take the Gesunde Jause to KiGa on Wednesday, by which time it was too late to send DH shopping (he's quite good at doing that kind of thing if I'm busy with work) so I went with the girls this afternoon (DS went to the Christmas market with a friend). It seemed to take up most of the afternoon so, what with having her piano lesson as well, DD1 got very little revision done for her maths Schularbeit. Personally, I don't think it will make a huge difference but DH wasn't best pleased.

Ah just as things were going so well!
We were finally getting into a routine, down to 8 or 9 feeds a day instead of the usual 12 and only one during the night (I realise how lucky we were) - I'd even gotten him to sleep somewhere other than on me once or twice during the day! Now, after a family gathering on Saturday night with far too many new faces, loud voices & stupid comments, where we stayed far longer than we intended (not for want of my trying lo leave) we are back up to feeding every 2 hours, if not more often, 2 or 3 feeds a night & first jabs are today so it's not likely to get better any time soon. Grr!
(I do realise this is probably perfectly normal, but my sleep-deprived, calorie-starved, hormonal brain isn't running rationally at the moment).
Rant over!

It's lovely & sunny here today so might attempt a walk in the park this afternoon, maybe even nip and see my friend who had a baby at the beginning of November. Apparently she is bottle-fed & feeds every 4 hours like clockwork I haven't seen her yet so I'm chomping at the bit to go round once she feels up to having visitors!