Daughter claiming she’s trans

[BizarroSeamonsters]

Hi all,

My daughter, almost 12, is claiming for the second time to be trans. First time was shortly after hitting puberty (which came, for her, upsettingly early around the time of her 10th birthday). This was just after the first lockdown, and she was estranged from so many of her school friends, and ultimately found the situation so distressing that she reverted to home schooling after a while. I should say she’d identified as gay prior to this.

Around the time this occurred, I blocked certain online materials (I found messages from suspiciously adult sounding ‘friends’ on a popular kids gaming platform addressing her by a male name) and, after some heart to heart conversations, she desisted. She then gradually cycled through the boyish clothing and back to dresses and wanting to be addressed as a girl etc - I should state that I’ve tried to impress upon her that a woman can wear and present outwardly however she damn well pleases.

This remained the case until the early part of this year, when she was allowed a greater degree of online access. Her mother and I separated last year so this is not something I can police to anything like the extent I might like. Lo and behold, within a month or so she’d switched back to they / them and then, more recently, he / him, with the male name resurgent.

I wish I knew how to address this. Her mother was, in fact, relatively gender critical before me but seems so loathe to compromise our daughter’s happiness in the moment that she is just letting her be; she’ll allow her to talk to her non-binary friend and have a trans flag while still referring to her as she much of the time, but I know there’s a fine line between passivity and absolute affirmation. We both, thankfully, agree that there can be absolutely no medication until she’s 18.

I’m really struck by the social contagion aspect of this - the fact it started almost immediately alongside puberty and at a time she dove deeper into online communities is, to me, a red flag. Yet, as I say, I’m at a loss. I realise it would be counterproductive to charge in like a bull in a china shop, but I’m so worried. She’s due to be going back to school from September and I’m concerned she’ll insist on being addressed as male there. I know there’s not much one can do to stop that now and I suppose the very different social dynamic of a small-town school might turn out to be something that disabuses her of the notion after a while.

Any advice would be most gratefully received.

Sex is a physical, biological state of existence. Gender is a belief. Some people believe in it, others don’t. Some who do, seem to believe it’s more important than sex.
When someone can show me this ‘internal sense of self’ I might change my mind. Until then, I’ll stick with the reality of sex.
I exist as female. I wear what I want, I think how I want, I believe females can do whatever job they want, I like to drive fast cars, I don’t wear high heels, or make up, or watch Love Island.

OP, have a look at both Bayswater and Transgender Trend. As the interim Cass report highlights, affirming social transitioning is not a neutral act.

Very best of luck to you and your ex in negotiation a safe path for your daughter.

Said it before. Will say it again.

No such thing as a trans child.

Clue is in the world child

If you're an adult who is indulging in this, stop grooming fucking children .

She's going through puberty. At best, she's a tomboy. That's it. FFS.

And OP get off the fucking internet and stop indulging her.

@theclangersarecoming -yes! One of the most disturbing things I find about the affirmation evangelists is their failure to recognise children are children. 11 year olds are still in primary school for the most part. Most girls won't have started their periods. Most boys will still be titchy with high pitched voices. Most of them still take teddies to bed and come into mum when they've had a bad dream.

They're not adolescents. Most countries believe that children under the age of 12 are below the age of criminal responsibility. How the hell can they make lifelong decisions about their identity?

I'm... not a teenager, though?

Cis isn't an insult, it's a Latin prefix. You know, the opposite of trans (Gallia Cisalpina, Transalpina). I can say non-trans, if it makes you feel better.

"Lo and behold, within a month or so she’d switched back to they / them and then, more recently, he / him, with the male name resurgent."
Nope, his requested pronouns are crystal clear.

Jesus. She’s 11. I hope she’s not sexually attracted to anyone.

gender isn’t a thing. It’s a made up nonsense. The only thing that is going to matter in your daughters life (that she will be discriminated against and harassed and harmed over) is her biological sex.

best get on with it.

You make the same argument homophobes make saying that there are no gay children. I'm sorry, but gender identity, like sexuality, often doesn't wait until 18 to develop. Those are facts.

Gender identity is something you also have. Don't believe me? Take testosterone and you'll notice how it makes you feel. When a trans men goes on testosterone, after a period of adjustment (sometimes without one) they feel better than before. Most ways for cis people to notice their gender identity would involve causing dysphoria, which is not pleasant. But hey, if you're really curious you can try.

Anyway, @BizarroSeamonsters, to get back on track, here's the advice synthesized:

Continue to emphasize that he can wear and do whatever he likes, without viewing his gender as an obstacle.
Use his requested pronouns.
Try to find a real life LGBT support group.
Get him a therapist. Preferably someone with experience with trans issues.
Stop reading the transphobic cesspool that is Mumsnet/ask for advice on reddit r/parentsoftranskids.
Talk to your partner about this if you haven't already.

Believe me I will, but I can’t control her internet usage when she’s not with me. Additionally, if I push too far, too soon she’ll simply decide she doesn’t want to see me - I know what she’s like and I know how it’ll pan out.

As far as I see it, all I can do is make myself as accessible as possible, and if that means putting myself on the breadline earning close to minimum wage, so be it.

As for indulging her, I have no plans to. I won’t be using the boy’s name or pronouns and I will continue to affirm that being a woman is merely a fact of biology - she said to me that she “hates she/her” and “doesn’t feel feminine” and, well, I hope in time she’ll realise that the latter speaks volumes since you don’t need to be in the slightest bit ‘feminine’ to be a woman. The irony is that she still loves plenty of ‘feminine’ things.

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/toptentips/ top ten tips for parents & carers of children with gender dysphoria

So my gentle natal male child believes they are trans because they don't like how the testosterone kick of adolescence is making them feel?

What a load of rubbish about it being concerning that OP needs to police her online presence. She is 12 years old

And why are you implying the OP and the girls mum is not supportive, where are you getting that from.

Of course he still loves "feminine things". Gender identity is not gender stereotypes. See, you can still see it. I feel so sad reading this, honestly. You're ready to go on the breadline but not to call him his name. And you think you're helping him. I just hope you'll manage to make it up to him in the future.

MH workers are becoming more concerned than ever about instant validation of changing pronouns to suggest that a child of something like 12 is a different sex

You can have whatever presentation you want, you can even use a different name if you like, but not pronouns as they refer to your sex, theres only 2.

She is a she. The OP is a good parent, they are rightly concerned about what toxic influences she has picked up online.

Well, didn't Stonewall just tell us that many 2-year-olds are solid in their transgender identity 🙄

"Take testosterone and you'll notice how it makes you feel"

Well that's called taking cross sex hormones. Which is a medical intervention and nothing to do with any kind of innate gender identity.

You could say the same about cocaine making someone feel confident.

Oh dear! Perhaps try not writing like one (and coming out with the obvious nonsense that teenagers do), then. Some proper education in an actual university discipline that isn’t social media normally soon rids most people of the daft “brain scans/gender identity” stuff and helps develop critical and analytic thinking.

For example, just below you write about how “going on testosterone” changes your gender identity. No, it’s a sex hormone. Not a “gender” hormone. Any taking of opposite sex hormones mimics some of the secondary sexual characteristics of the opposite sex. Sex and gender are different things. “Gender” is the sociological term for the construction of social sex roles that are socially assigned as “masculine” or “feminine”. You have naturalised this as some kind of innate brain identity, but the word doesn’t mean that; and there is zero evidence for it existing in the brain or anywhere else in the body.

It’s a well known phenomenon for people to internalise social roles as something they can claim or believe are innate (see: how people have historically thought about race, for example). That doesn’t mean it’s actually true; only that it’s a powerful set of social beliefs and delusions.

Psychological delusions are very powerful. Think about the placebo effect. It’s been well known for centuries that humans are able to convince themselves of all sorts of things that they internalise as pseudo-experiences. Believing that taking testosterone changes your gendered soul into a more manly essence, is no different to a whole assortment of religious or medicalised delusions of the past.

The only thing I agree with is get a therapist.

OP Implement appropriate access to the internet like any responsible parent and just remember your daughter is not even a teenager.

She is at an very impressionable age and will be experimenting with with lots of ideas right now.
She will be struggling with body changes, hormones & everything that goes along with it. Don't judge but be supportive and see where it goes.

But do research surrounding online chat rooms & gaming sites so you are aware of the dangers for underage children and educate your daughter on safe use. The police & some children's charities have a lot of helpful online resources.

She. She is a girl. Stop it.

OP just do the opposite of what lambchops tells you to do.

I'm glad there's people here with good advice for you.

You are misinformed. There is no such thing as a 'woman' brain or 'man' brain. The gender cult lie that there is such, has been debunked by many scientists and doctors. www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon

Neurosexism: the myth that men and women have different brains
www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x

theconversation.com/you-dont-have-a-male-or-female-brain-the-more-brains-scientists-study-the-weaker-the-evidence-for-sex-differences-158005

It is not that we are 'uneducated', it is that you are brainwashed and believe absolute lies and junk social science.