Daughter claiming she’s trans

[BizarroSeamonsters]

Hi all,

My daughter, almost 12, is claiming for the second time to be trans. First time was shortly after hitting puberty (which came, for her, upsettingly early around the time of her 10th birthday). This was just after the first lockdown, and she was estranged from so many of her school friends, and ultimately found the situation so distressing that she reverted to home schooling after a while. I should say she’d identified as gay prior to this.

Around the time this occurred, I blocked certain online materials (I found messages from suspiciously adult sounding ‘friends’ on a popular kids gaming platform addressing her by a male name) and, after some heart to heart conversations, she desisted. She then gradually cycled through the boyish clothing and back to dresses and wanting to be addressed as a girl etc - I should state that I’ve tried to impress upon her that a woman can wear and present outwardly however she damn well pleases.

This remained the case until the early part of this year, when she was allowed a greater degree of online access. Her mother and I separated last year so this is not something I can police to anything like the extent I might like. Lo and behold, within a month or so she’d switched back to they / them and then, more recently, he / him, with the male name resurgent.

I wish I knew how to address this. Her mother was, in fact, relatively gender critical before me but seems so loathe to compromise our daughter’s happiness in the moment that she is just letting her be; she’ll allow her to talk to her non-binary friend and have a trans flag while still referring to her as she much of the time, but I know there’s a fine line between passivity and absolute affirmation. We both, thankfully, agree that there can be absolutely no medication until she’s 18.

I’m really struck by the social contagion aspect of this - the fact it started almost immediately alongside puberty and at a time she dove deeper into online communities is, to me, a red flag. Yet, as I say, I’m at a loss. I realise it would be counterproductive to charge in like a bull in a china shop, but I’m so worried. She’s due to be going back to school from September and I’m concerned she’ll insist on being addressed as male there. I know there’s not much one can do to stop that now and I suppose the very different social dynamic of a small-town school might turn out to be something that disabuses her of the notion after a while.

Any advice would be most gratefully received.

"the fact it started almost immediately alongside puberty and at a time she dove deeper into online communities is, to me, a red flag"
I mean... puberty is when physical dysphoria begins really kicking in, it's pretty standard a time to come out to oneself. And since you and her mother sound SO supportive, is it any wonder your child seeks community online?

If you want your child to stop spending so much time online, you can probably find an LGBT support group near your area. Whether a straight trans man or a cis lesbian, it should help. And in person people can't lie about their age.
Also, the way you want to police most online interaction is... concerning. Isolating a person from their social network is usually bad for mental health.

I appreciate what you are saying about the online side of things, but I don’t think it’s u reasonable that I’m deeply concerned about its influence on an 11 year old who spends entire days online and who has, from time to time, used terms like poly and pan to describe herself.

An online network is not suitable support for a teen. It’s quite appropriate for her mother to step in and support her.
anyonr can say anything. It’s not real and prevents genuine support from being accessed as it’s more comfortable to seek it online.

I think that counselling would be my first step here if you can afford to go private. Someone who will allow her to explore the whys of what she is feeling rather than just affirm them.

Does she actually feel like she is a boy or does she not like what she sees of being a girl.

I can understand being afraid or discomforted by the body changes and everything in the news and online about the scary aspects of womanhood and the risks,especially at the moment with all the news out of the US and the general disdain towards womens rights.

Ultimately she may be trans, or she may be gay, or she may just be a confused adolescent girl.

Absolutely I agree that internet access should be limited, although I think that should be the case for every child, there is a reason why most social media platforms have minimum ages of 13+. You need to ensure you have parental controls applied, that you are monitoring what she accesses and that you are safeguarding her from content she is not yet fully equipped to critically examine.

Does she have any interests or hobbies that you could encourage her to participate in that takes her away from screens and exposes her to a wider social group?

It's not unreasonable, but rather than restrict online focus on impacting real life. For example, if he asks for he/him pronouns, use them. He won't have much need for an online network if he's supported at home.

I also agree with the user who suggested counseling (though I should warn you most people recommended on Mumsnet are not really fit to work with trans people).

I think hobbies etc is a great idea, and something I’ll broach in the near future - she’s a deceptively shy child and has always resisted in the past, but it’s overdue to be honest.

The difficult thing with the online is that kid focused gaming platform and its in-app chat seems to have been one of the catalysts, which is entirely aimed at children. I blocked chat before, but it’s been re-allowed. She now has Instagram too, which I’m a little bit uneasy about but I also acknowledge that it’s not my decision. There’s a temptation to put a full moratorium on screens when she’s with me, but I question how effective it would be given they’ll have them the rest of the time.

Also try to give her opportunities to meet and learn about all kinds of women.

Take her to festivals, expose her to an eclectic choice of music, introduce her to comediennes she might not have heard of before, encourage her to read a range of literature, to look up women in STEM......

Make sure she has the opportunity to learn that women are not a one size fits all/identikit group of pink dress wearing, contour makeup'd, unicorn loving people.

Let her see that not wanting to be a girly girl doesn't necessarily mean she isn't a girl.

Open chat channels on online gaming platforms are a pedophile's dream because they can pretend to be a similar age and groom children unrestricted. No eleven year old should have unsupervised open chat on gaming platforms.

Discord is good because you can block open chat on the gaming platform but allow them to chat and game with known in person friends (school friends, cousins or whatever) added individually.

I agree…hence the frustration. Giving it back was well meaning, but I’m so worried about the long-term impact.

Festivals etc is a good idea. I do try to impress upon her the massive spectrum of womanhood, and that there are no stereotypes she has to live up to - in fact, that’s something I’ve always tried to do, since she was tiny. The irony is that before the online rabbit-hole she absolutely adored dresses etc.

She's 11.

Any sane parent would want to prevent their 11 year old from interacting with random anonymous strangers on the internet.

At 11 obviously internet access should be supervised/ monitored.
Interesting though that you note she previously adored dresses though, even though you state that you know that it's not dresses and presenting in a stereotypically "feminine" way that makes someone a woman. I didn't work out I wasn't a woman until I was 20, so a bit different. But throughout being a teenager I was well known for living in dresses and skirts, for presenting in a stereotypically feminine way more so than my peers. That was because although I didn't have the words for what I was feeling, I always felt like an imposter to being a girl, and I needed to cover that up with dresses and what I knew people instantly read as "girl", so that I didn't get found out. I still wear dresses now though, because I know, like you, that clothes have nothing to do with gender. And they're comfy.

The child is 12 years old. You don't think the parent should be policing online content? You don't find it concerning that a 12 year old is potentially being contacted by adults concerning?

Do you condone this?

Have you heard of safeguarding?

I think your response is about you and what you want, nothing to do with this patent or child. Read and think before you respond, you'll look less ignorant.

Sometimes I read posts on this board and I think the poster has an agenda.

OP I think your young daughter is very lucky to have you looking out for her. I wish you and her the best.

If you decide to seek professional help, please be wary of 'affirmation only', if her school has an lgbt club, I'd be cautious of those too. Some seem to have been colonised by ideology. Other posters will be along, I'm sure, with better advice. Or check out the threads on FWR.

I think you should make sure they have age appropriate support from people who actually understand how trans children should be helped because it sounds like you want to take away all of the baddies on the internet supporting them more than you are which obviously won't help.

No punctuation in that post, it's incomprehensible.

My daughter is the same, she is 18 now. It started about 6 years ago. Fucking tumblr, to be honest it hasn't progressed. We have both expressed our views quite awhile ago, recognised I suppose that we don't agree, now don't talk about it at all. I

t's not worth ruining our relationship for. She is the most squeamish person ever so I think would never go for any hormone treatments or surgery. Just realise that it's the current zeitgeist and unlikely to last for a long time.

Thanks for sharing. Can I ask how you address your daughter day to day? Also, if you’d be so kind as to elaborate on how it hasn’t progressed?

Thanks, I appreciate your kind words. I would certainly want to avoid affirmation only therapy. I take your point about LGBT clubs too - I suspect she’ll want to use the male pronouns / name in school, which I can’t do much about, but my hope is that being reintegrated into a group of actual, real-life kids will be good for her, regardless of what she decides as an adult,

It hasn't progressed, in the way that she isn't insistent that she is now a man etc, hasn't gone down the full transition route. Tbh I really really tried to call her "he" and the chosen name, but I literally cannot do it, it won't come out of my mouth

I cannot lie that often on a daily basis, it gives me physical symptoms.

The issue now is that those pushing queer theory and gender ideology are convincing teens that any, perfectly normal, discomfort with their changing bodies must mean they are 'trans' despite the fact that the majority of dysphoric kids grow out of it proving it's not anything innate at all.

Adults using children to validate their own choices.

You are correct op, social contagion is rife. 'Influencers' convincing young girls to take doses of hormones that are dangerous to their female body, become infertile, lifelong medical patient and have their healthy breasts removed because they are fed lies that this will make them something they can never be.

I didn't work out I wasn't a woman until I was 20, so a bit different

Was your sexed body not a big clue?

I still wear dresses now though, because I know, like you, that clothes have nothing to do with gender

Your sex is female regardless of your clothes or personality.
So what EXACTLY is a 'gender' then, other than sexist sex role stereotypes?
'Man' and 'woman' are not genders they are sexed words to denote the male and female of our species.
Masculine and feminine are the expected 'gender' norms, but either sex can be masculine or feminine.

All gender ideology does is try to enforce the stereotypes, whilst claiming to do the opposite, because without the stereotypes the whole house of cards falls down.

I never said my sex wasn't female. I'm non-binary, although I'm not sure why I'm posting on here seeing as most posters refuse to believe I exist.

We believe you exis....oh, I can't be arsed.

Me neither. Thought I'd help OP's daughter, but no point staying to be attacked. Bye!

When I was growing up the Punk generation hit the scene. Gender ideology mirrors the whole “we don’t want to conform” statement that punks were trying to express. It was shocking and there was much wringing of hands etc,etc amongst parents and adults. We can look back and acknowledge for what it was a short lived teenage trend.

Teenagers the world over feel the need to be different, to push boundaries, are confused by their changing bodies. Unfortunately for this generation it’s all been done before, in fact the boundaries were stretched beyond recognition by their parents and their grandparents who fail to raise an eyebrow, so they are compelled to find ever more extreme boundaries.

Now we have the internet, where the previously hidden predictors and extremists have free access to our highly vulnerable young people. The online trans community are cult like in their activities ( I have first hand experience) and like many cults the children are easy to influence.
The internet is a gift to these individuals. As parents we do have to police our childrens online interactions.

I fully support individuals who have fully explored their sexuality and body dysmorphia, and as an adult can make an informed choice. But to encourage immature children to explore gender before they have had the opportunity to get used to their changing bodies is just wrong.