Is my daughter trans?

[IdentifyasTired]

My lovely 12 year old DD started secondary school last September.
She’s a very clever, academic but socially awkward and highly anxious person. She has always had female friends, girls who were her BFFs in primary school. She loved unicorns, My Little Pony and never had a problem with wearing dresses or skirts.
Last week after looking at her phone i discovered a message she sent to one of her female friends.
The message read:
What do you think of trans people?
Friend replied: I don’t mind. Everyone should just be themselves.
My DD: ‘oh well in that case I’m kinda trans lmao’

I asked her about it. She got very uncomfortable and very upset. I have since found out that her closest male friend has been encouraging her to download discord and telling her she’s a furry?! Part of the furry fandom? She said there’s a lot of LGBT in furry.

But when I spoke to her, it emerged:
She wants to be a boy but thinks she’s probably a girl.
She feels wrong.
She hates her body.
She hates having periods.
She feels constantly uncomfortable in herself.
She doesn’t want to grow up.
She doesn’t want her breasts to get bigger.
She doesn’t want men or boys to look at her sexually. She doesn’t know if she’s attracted to boys or girls.
Being a boy feels ‘safer’.
She wants to cut her hair and wear trousers for school.
She wants to use a boys name.
She doesn’t want to see a doctor or a therapist about any of this. Nor does she want the rest of the family or teachers at school to know.
She said she felt sure she was trans until I spoke to her and now she’s not so sure.

Her anxiety is through the roof at the moment.

I’m so worried and scared for her. And so confused. So is she.

Does it seem likely this is gender dysphoria? Or is something else going on?
Any advice, any help and I’d be so so grateful.

She sounds very similar to my diagnosed autistic dd at that age. Anxiety was a massive problem. One word of advice is to think carefully how you approach diagnosis. In many areas CAMHS won't see autistic children for anxiety because it's apparently a normal part of autism! You may have to go privately for help.
Other than that, given autistic people often struggle with change and your body changing in puberty is pretty big, it's not surprising that she wants it to stop.

Ok. Think I need to approach the GP and see about a referral privately.

No eye contact, no physical contact and no cuddles are myths and pretty much don't apply to autistic girls.

I'm autistic, have no problem with eye contact, have quite a large personal space but love a cuddle from people I love.

I'd agree about the horse riding! As a child who always had her nose in a book (yes, another hyperlexic Mumsnetter) and was a stranger to the outdoors, horseriding was my only outdoor/sporting activity and I was completely obsessed.

It's also great for body confidence as boys and girls are equal, 99% of the sport is about how you move your body, plus horses are really snuggly.

I think the thing to tell her is a lot of these feeling are normal adolescence - it's common to feel uncomfortable about your body, about sex and sexuality. This is the first generation to really see it through the lens of 'gender' and I think this is making a lot of kids think these feelings say something about that, rather than being not uncommon teenage feelings. But it sounds like there might be a higher-than-normal level of anxiety and maybe not being neurotypical.

My 13.5 year old identifies as NB and we are supporting them but also keeping an open dialogue and letting them know they don't actually have to worry about labelling their exact gender and sexuality right now. They're fine with their body and generally happy, we are both thinking they may have some ADHD like brother (and probably dad) but not to the extent of needing any intervention really. TBH,
DH & I think they're most likely a gay girl who likes the 'NB aesthetic' above all.

I've not read the other replies. But:

Not being happy with periods, breasts growing, being the subject of the male.gaze and being sexualised by men - totally normal feelings. I can't imagine there are many women out there who relished any of these ideas.

We are still living in a society where men treat women as objects and that is not ok, and it is not enjoyable being a person who is subjected to that.

Opting out of being a person subjected to that is attractive because then you can tell yourself none of that applies to you.

We are also now in a society that tells young people if they deviate from a gender norm, then they may be gender queer or trans. This is not correct. Gender norms stifle life and individuality. The option isn't gender conforming or trans. The option is be the sex you were born and do the things you like and wear the clothes you like.

I worry that if I were young now, I would be influenced into thinking I was trans. I never played with dolls and hated pink and wearing skirts or dresses. I hated my body, couldn't accept that I was growing breasts.

This wasn't about being trans, but about the fact men seemed to think they had a right to my body or to talk or comment about my body. It made me feel uncomfortable and as though I didn't belong to myself. I wasn't abused physically, but because of how I looked, I generally got more attention than I wanted and in an overtly sexual way.

I wore baggy shirts and jumpers and baggy trousers, partly to hide myself. I got told I was a lesbian because of that - I'm not, I questioned myself a lot but I know my security. My lesbian friends were some of the most supportive people I knew when men shouted homophobic slurs at me.

In the end, I'm a straight woman who doesn't conform to gender norms. That's fine. What isn't fine is being told by others that my non conformity means I must be gay or that I must be gender queen or trans.

I suspect that your daughter is having a hard time with her body and needs support and help with knowing she is lovely and self acceptance and self confidence is key.

I suspect the support for trans people is in some cases being extrapolated to over support or affirmation of trans identity when someone is merely gender non confirming.

When people are trans, they need support. I have absolutely no fear or hatred for trans people. I don't want to eradicate trans people at all.

What I am saying is that by not conforming with gender norms or strict gender stereotypes it doesn't make you trans.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

She's not trans She's a girl who is nervous about growing up and being sexualised and has been exposed to some inappropriate stuff on the internet. Manage her internet use properly and focus on helping her develop good self esteem.

Absolutely this.

This is a really good point.

I suspect the support for trans people is in some cases being extrapolated to over support or affirmation of trans identity when someone is merely gender non confirming

Your DD's feelings about her changing body are perfectly normal and understandable. She can have short hair and trousers. Doesn't make her trans. Boys have their own issues growing up, doesn't mean puberty is easier for them, just different.
As many people have already said, help her navigate social media and the internet in an age appropriate way. There's so much adult stuff out there that kids can accidentally stumble on when looking for information. Keep talking to her about this and everything else.

Don't let the GP refer your DD to the gender clinic. There are huge problems at the Tavistock / GIDS, eg their own safeguarding lead took them to court and NICE found that there was no evidence to underpin puberty blockers or cross sex hormones as a treatment for kids, yet they still prescribe them.

Several clinicians and senior staff have resigned and whistleblown about them misdiagnosing and damaging kids because if their ideology (Google Dr David Bell, Dr Kirsty Entwistle, Sonia Appleby, Marcus Evans, Sue Evans and see the articles about the anon whistleblowers in the Times and the Guardian).

They were barred from prescribing blockers by the High Court after an ex client, Keira Bell, took them to court for wrongly diagnosing her as trans and giving her blockers and testosterone. That was overturned on appeal and will be going to the supreme court. Just this week it was revealed that an applicant for trustee was told not to waste her time applying because she believes you can't literally change sex, which is nuts! You can't.

And, they're currently the subject of a governmental review.

I would see the GP about getting her assessed for autism, not to discuss her feelings around gender

This sounds perfectly normal to me. She can have short hair and wear trousers if she wants to - doesn't mean she's trans!! A lot of girls feel scared and unhappy about puberty and leaving childhood behind. And why should she know about her sexuality yet? Again, perfectly normal.

@Clymene

I would see the GP about getting her assessed for autism, not to discuss her feelings around gender

Yes me too. I would want less talk and exposure to gender identity rather than more. Not beyond 'you can wear what you want and look how you want.'

Thank you again. Her internet usage is now (since last week) entirely restricted. She’s not permitted to use her laptop or phone unless her dad or I are sitting next to her. But the exposure regarding sexualisation etc is happening in school, she says certain boys talk about it. It’s discussed. She hears about it. And clearly from what she says, some kids have completely unrestricted access online. It’s far worse than I thought it would be.
DH is going to book an appointment at the GP on Monday. He’s not going to take her, he’s going to book it in his name and talk to our doctor about her. We live in a fairly rural area, everyone knows everyone. We’ve had the same doctor since DD was a toddler. I’m hoping hoping hoping we get this right for her. It feels like the biggest test we’ve had in our parenting life so far.

What are you going to talk to the Dr about? Autism or gender?

Talking to them about gender is really dangerous. Your Dr may refer them to the Tavistock, which could mean puberty blockers and cross sex hormones if she's convinced herself she's trans by the time she gets to the top of their waiting list.

It's a really dangerous path to take. The Gender Identity Development Service seems to be running on ideology not evidence based medicine - the High Court judges and NICE both agree that they haven't got the evidence to back what they're doing to children.

The court decision wasn't overturned because the judges thought that decision was wrong, it was on a technicality - the lawyers for GIDS successfully argued that it wasn't the court's place to make that decision. They didn't challenge the actual decision though.

Your Dr is unlikely to know this. And GIDS are the "correct" NHS service to refer on to for gender issues. (Hopefully that will change once the Cass Review publishes its findings).

To clarify in case it was confusing, The Tavistock & Portman is the NHS trust that oversees GIDS (the Gender Identity Development Service).

Agree with pp. Don't mention gender at this point to the GP. You need to find out if she is autistic to see what you are dealing with.

She sounds like my DD.

Please steer her away from any gender stuff and get her some support around her anxiety and feelings about not fitting in. Some help with friendships and relationships might really help. In my view the alienation and feeling "different" is what can start them on this path. If she is autistic a diagnosis might help with why she feels like she does.

Unfortunately my DD was diagnosed late and she had already decided all those feelings were because she was trans.

Unfortunately we got entangled with some zealous professionals who very much put my DD on the trans train. We were not knowledgeable enough then to know what to do and it has been a difficult journey.

Keep her busy - plenty of physical activities if possible, regulate the internet and tell her hating periods and wanting short hair does not remotely mean you are a boy (or trans).

The pressure these quirky kids face is terrifying.

The male 'friend' who is encouraging her to go on certain sites and telling her she is probably a furry is not a friend.

The list you posted is a script. Exactly what these vulnerable young girls are being told to make them think their perfectly healthy, changing bodies are wrong.

We’re going to the GP to ask about all of it. I understand everyone’s concerns about GIDS etc but is it not wrong to omit part of the story?
She says herself she feels confused. She doesn’t say she is a boy just that she thinks it would be better if she was. So surely she wouldn’t meet criteria for gender dysphoria diagnosis? Or am I woefully ignorant here?

Furries stuff is VERY suspect. It has links with paedophilia.

Adults wanting to dress as animals to have sex or identify as them - no problem, up to them what they do. But furry networks are also used by some very dodgy people to introduce and normalise a sexualised world to kids. It can be used as a gateway into some really dodgy stuff that they're way to young for, or to understand what they're getting themselves into.

And, the appeal to kids is obvious, isn't it.

Quite honestly I think you are being ignorant. Well, naive anyway.

What will you say if the GP says ‘oh yes, she’s old enough to know she’s in the wrong body. Let’s believe her. Let’s give her hormones.’ What if it all gets taken out of your hands?

I really think you need to do a lot of reading and research around this topic before talking to a GP.

Yes, you are being woefully naïve. If your GP refers her to GIDS, which s/he very well may do, you are basically handing her over to ideologues, and she may well end up on puberty blockers then cross sex hormones.

Risks include being made sterile, having sexual function damaged, pain during sex, menopause in her early 20s, possibly needing hysterectomy, brittle bones and she may decide she wants a double mastectomy. No one knows what the blockers do to brains. We do know teenage brains develop loads during puberty and it's likely that the blockers inhibit this process. There have been no studies on this, except a very small on in sheep that suggested a possible drop in IQ.

GIDS has been rated inadequate by the Care Quality Commission and has been heavily criticised by current and ex employees for putting ideology over evidence and safeguarding. Here's a twitter thread from BBC journalist, Hannah Barnes about the CQC findings.

twitter.com/hannahsbee/status/1351793414812086274?s=20

Why would you hand your DD over to these people? It's obvious there's something very wrong going on here. You really can't trust the professionals on this one.

Please, please do some research.

What if it all gets taken out of your hands?

Yes, this. Parents don't have the choice here. If your DD decides she wants blockers and GIDS want to give them to her, you can't stop it.

You need to keep your DD as far as possible away from these ideologues if you want her to avoid being convinced she's trans and going down a very damaging path, potentially.

If I was in your position, I'd bypass the GP and find her a decent therapist who can support her with her anxiety and possible autism, who doesn't believe in affirming children as trans.

Contact Bayswater Support. They should give you sound advice: bayswatersupport.org.uk/

Sounds like a lot of the normal feelings of going through puberty . The difference now is that there are people telling youngsters that feeling like that means they are trans. Mostly they are not

Here is Former Tavistock Staff Governor, Dr David Bell sharing his concerns about GIDS. He says ‘Children have been very seriously damaged’.

Well worth a watch

www.channel4.com/news/children-have-been-very-seriously-damaged-by-nhs-gender-clinic-says-former-tavistock-staff-governor