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Residence dispute with ex H: am I going to be reduced to 1 weekend per fortnight?

289 replies

agingoth · 25/09/2009 22:28

Hi all. I am getting divorced and we are about to go into mediation. H put the petition in which I am going to accept.

My big worry is losing main residence of the kids. We have spent a year separated in London doing strict 50:50 custody. H insisted on staying in the family home so I left as the atmosphere was so terrible and went to live in a flat 10 minutes away, the kids being with me strictly half the time. I was very depressed and didnt' have much fight in me at that point.

I work a long way from London in the North Midlands and now want to take the children with me up there where I think they would have a better standard of living. H is adamant they must stay with him because 'this is their home' and ds1 is settled in school (he is in year 2). My 2 year old is not yet in nursery. They have a nanny four days a week.

I have Mondays off to look after them but have to go up to Stoke 2/3 days a week at the moment to work. If they came to live with me nearer there I would be able to finish work about 4 to be with them. At the moment if with H they are with the nanny until 7pm.

i have offered H every weekend promising to get them down to London to him and more time in holidays. He said no and insists they must stay in SE London and attend the school.

Is he being reasonable? Or am I deluded in thinking I can take them out of London/school?

thanks

OP posts:
Surfermum · 29/09/2009 11:12

I agree, how will them being with you in the week and with him at weekends improve things? It's very restricting. What if you want to go away for the weekend, what if you want to go out on a Friday night, what if they get invited to parties on a Saturday. That's a long journey every Friday and every Sunday. And when will you get to spend any time with your children? A few hours after work during the week will be all you have.

HammyHamsteristaken · 29/09/2009 12:55

Agingoth
Haven't been sure whether or not to post this - I think I recognise you from another thread - and I think we may work in the same institution. I do not know who you are and I have namechanged for this to protect both of us. I am sure that you have lots of RL friends who are supporting you etc - but you sounded so worn out and down that I suppose I just wanted to let you know that if you did need anything/ anyone in RL there was someone there.
Hope you don't mind me posting this.

agingoth · 29/09/2009 16:27

people who have posted about 'a little bit of career sacrifice', can't know how the sector works

  • exactly eighties chick, and very sorry to hear you may have to give up yours too. It is truly horrible when nothing like it may come up again. And I have some reason to think now after 4/5 rejections in my field that I won't get another.

Hi there Hammy and thanks for the message, hope to see you soon now term is starting ;)

It's impossible to say in definite terms, I think, whether children will be irretrievably damaged by moving house and school, I certainly wasn't when younger, but I am not going to argue with people who say stability is better.

I just feel so bitter and angry at being effectively forced out of a job. I will get totally flamed for this, but I am seriously considering giving up residence, moving out myself somewhere on a good trainline and trying to visit as often as possible and have them up once in a while. If I were a man that would be acceptable wouldn't it but presumably not for me

I just hate the way I am living, forced into a life that's not my own. OK light the pyres now...

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dittany · 29/09/2009 16:42

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agingoth · 29/09/2009 16:56

I wouldn't be giving up on them dittany, but you can see that the overwhelming evidence is that I don't have a chance(have looked up Children Act etc and consulted a couple of solicitor friends informally, etc. The status quo is what the court is likely to uphold).

I want a career, god as a divorced 36 year old with no pension I need a career, and unless I were superwoman able to whizz up and down the country with my bag of papers every week and cram what I want to be a full time job into two days (and it never works like that, there are always meetings etc, v hard to work from home especially during term), I can't keep on as I am, it has nearly landed me in the loony bin.

Ironically, I research in feminist studies. I hate the idea that as the mother I must give up my career to prove commitment to my kids. It just seems so wrong. And I ask again, what am I supposed to do when 50, jobless and without experience- will my ex support me then?

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dittany · 29/09/2009 17:09

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agingoth · 29/09/2009 17:16

The problem is dittany that I'm not just using yerblurt's ideas etc, they have been confirmed from other sources. i've always been wary of a fight etc.

giving up the one job you want and have worked 8 years for for pretty much nothing does feel like becoming jobless. yes I could retrain as a secondary school teacher or something I know that, but you will understand why it galls me.

One thing I did think of doing was freelance writing but I have no idea how to get into it or if I could live on it.

There seems little point in using up what should be the kids' money and as others on the thread have said, creating lasting enmity if there is another way. I do intend to try to cajole agreement from h at mediation to move the family just a bit further north but if he won't agree it appears I don't have much choice. As others have said I was being naive to think he would give a shit about my career. The only leverage I have is that financially it will ease the burden on him long term and that in the end if I am not miserable it will help the split family to manage better, but don't hold out much hope of that working. i dont' think it's pathetic to say that, I am thinking things through more rationally than if I were going all-out for a fight.

OP posts:
dittany · 29/09/2009 17:28

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Surfermum · 29/09/2009 17:36

Would she have more time with her children? That's what I'm having trouble understanding. If they live with you in the Midlands agingoth, woud you work full-time or part-time? Either way you won't get much time with them in the week, and none at the weekend other than the trek up and down to London. Would it really work out that you'd have more time with them?

ilovemydogandmrobama · 29/09/2009 17:41

The status quo is that your DH is employing someone to look after them. it would be a much different situation if he was staying at home full time to look after them and had been doing so on a regular basis.

Why does he get to call the shots? He agreed to you all moving, so the fact that he is now objecting means that he doesn't object in principle, but is trying to control you, or punish you (not sure where controlling starts and punishing begins... )

Seems to me that mediation has failed. Or perhaps he needs to know that he cannot set the agenda and expect you to make the concessions. How could you go about this? In the past, what makes him respond? What would he do if you said, 'mediation is going nowhere -- let's go to court?' Am just wondering. Is there the possibility that he would be shocked and then start being in the room as far as mediation?

Agree with Dittany. There are always solutions.

I was also thinking about this thread today.

dittany · 29/09/2009 17:55

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agingoth · 29/09/2009 18:14

surfermum, academic work is very flexible and specific office hours vary. Most days I could be out of the office to pick them up from school/nursery at 3 or 4 pm. The way I had hopedthe weekends would work out was that one week I would take them down to London and the other he would come up to see them, I would vacate the house if necessary and go and stay at my parents' or somesuch.
I was willing to give him a lot more time in school holidays etc.

As it is it looks as if we are going to have the reverse arrangement whereby I travel down one weekend and get them up the other and have more time in holidays. He just emailed me to say that is basically all he will agree to.

I think he got to call the shots because I felt guilty and because he scared the shit out of me with the initial petition saying I would be reduced to every other weekend access. This was immediately after he found out by checking my computer that I had slept with another man during a period of separation when we were living in the same house. I didn't know enough about the law then, I thought 'adultery' and my depression would count against me.

this year with working p/t and having them 50:50 I've clearly proved I can look after them and am not a nutcase, so I was less worried about that, but it seems my year of making concessions have backfired on me.

Tbh I am so tired of it all now I just want a decision and it to be over. Whatever happens I will make every effort to give the boys as much quality time as possible.

When they are older I hope to make them understand that I needed to work but didn't want to get involved in an ugly fight with their father who had his own ideas about where they should grow up.

btw dittany he agreed to the move up when we were still together before the separation, although this year when we talked about possible reconciliation he said it would still be on the cards if we got back together. Doubt I can use that in court though.

I don't know if direct bullying is what it is anymore, he just wants to erase me from his life and doesn't see that that will affect the dcs.One of his parting shots when we split up was 'you're dead as far as I'm concerned' which I thought was pretty strong even for the circumstances, and his attitude since then has been pretty consistent- for instance, I went into respite care for depression over the summer in lieu of going to psychiatric hospital at a time of acute crisis (when I was still stupidly attempting reconciliation) and he did not visit once in 5 days or bring the kids, did not phone to check up on me and did not offer to pick me up. The staff there were shocked tbh.

I think that I am basically 'dead to him' and he is determined to get on with his life as if me and my irritating demands did not exist, although he seems happy to throw money at me to make me go away.

OP posts:
dittany · 29/09/2009 18:22

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agingoth · 29/09/2009 18:29

the other thing is I don't want to hate him back the way he hates me, in some ways I want to rise above it. But what I can't stand is living in London, which I hate, day after day knowing I'm trapped there because of his say-so,I would find it less horrible to move out. If that's immoral then fair enough.

I think I will leave it up to my solicitor to decide whether I really should carry on trying to get residence, I presume they will be honest with me about chances of success etc. and not just try to string the case out. I'm on legal aid but H clearly isnt' an money wasted could be money saved for the kids' future.

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yerblurt · 29/09/2009 18:30

seems like it's dittany that's doing the bullying on this thread - at agingoth!

Surfermum · 29/09/2009 18:35

So if they lived with you you would only get a few hours on weekday evenings with them and no weekends at all - would you be happy with seeing them so little and not being able to do any fun weekend stuff? That sounds like the rough end of the deal to me.

And having him to stay at yours while you decamp doesn't sound ideal by any means.

agingoth · 29/09/2009 18:37

yerblurt do you have any advice for me about what I can expect re. visitation rights if I move away- I am hoping it will be a matter for informal agreement but would he have rights to stop me coming down to London and seeing the kids when I wanted? (I don't mean taking them up to mine etc).

Also I presume the every other weekend provision would be every other weekend where I lived?

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agingoth · 29/09/2009 18:41

interestingly surfermum having me at his whiel HE decamps is the current 'solution' he's offering me...he's saying that every other weekend I could stay in the house and he will go elsewhere....he's only offering every other weekend and more time in holidays.

Ido have mondays with them plus university holidays are long so it wouldn't all be boring workaday time.

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dittany · 29/09/2009 18:47

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dittany · 29/09/2009 18:53

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ilovemydogandmrobama · 29/09/2009 19:09

She clearly needs an advocate.

It's very sad that she is of the opinion that the status quo has been the last year or so. Am not sure this is true. Seems to be more of a holding pattern until residence can be agreed.

It's understandable the guilt from an affair, but adultery doesn't mean you lose your kids.

amtooyoungforthis · 29/09/2009 19:26

agingoth, have you actually been to mediation?? Have you seen a solicitor?? That is the first port of call, not any of us and certainly not dittany who doesn't believe any man can give children what a mother does, even if the mother is useless (NOT you btw, just how she feels and has made very clear, she is not impartial in any way)

Emails and tearful phone calls are not the way to go.

You have had a difficult time and any agreement reach now does not have to be in place forever. You can make it to be reviewed in 6 months/1 year, every year.

How would you feel if you did your weekend visits but also had them for ALL of the school holidays. It would be much cheaper for all concerned. Or have the baby with you, eldest at weekends and holidays. 50:50 doesn't have to mean half of a week, it can be split over the year/month too

Please got to mediation, find a solicitor that signs to resolution (mentioned somewhere on mumsnet, may be this thread)

It doesn't have to be all you or all him, there may be a solution where you both get most of what you want

ElenorRigby · 29/09/2009 19:29

"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who regards or treats members of a group (e.g. a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance."
Was just having a look on wiki
Sexists hate men and women in near equal measure, no doubt.
Sorry DP has cooked dinner, got to go.

dittany · 29/09/2009 19:38

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mmrred · 29/09/2009 19:45

It seems bizarre that all this venom is spewing forth about 'losing' children and 'giving up' on them, when what agingoth is considering is what is routinely offered to dads (on advice given on this forum) as more than fair.

If you want to be a SAHM, agingoth, then yes, you have to give up your job. If you want to be a working mum, you should not be made to feel guilty.

You could have long weekends including your Mondays.

Write a list (that's what my Mum always says) Think about how you could get the most out of the situation if the children stay in the family home and you keep your job. As I recall, University holidays are massive - could you have a different arrangement for holiday and term times?