Financial abuse - manipulation of CMS

[patiorain]

I think I am being financially abused, in a complicated way. I am piecing it together with the help of AI and am horrified. Can you help confirm/ negate/ fill in the gaps.

I was with a relatively high earner who owns his own company and pays himself out of dividends, etc. We separated. We were never married. I have two kids.

After we separated, we rented a house for me and the kids near to the schools (state schools, he had already reneged on private school fees). He paid half rent. I paid the rest and all other bills/ expenses (I am relatively high earning myself). This has been his only financial contribution. It was hideously unfair but better than nothing and I accepted it to keep the peace. He took me to court and obtained an order for pretty minimal contact to our two children but only one of them goes on a routine basis - the other is a bit older and sees him infrequently despite the order. This is her choice.

Recently, he declared he has lost earnings and can no longer pay the rent. He unilaterally approached the agent and ended the joint tenancy. He said we have to move to a less expensive home - no proposals or offers on what that would be. I continue paying the full rent for now on a rolling basis (more on how I can later).

He made me apply to the CMS, Based on his most recent tax return, he was assessed (no surprises) as owing the maximum monthly payment for our two kids. This was less than he was previously paying as half rent but not miles away.

He then claimed a dramatic loss of earnings and challenged the CMS assessment. I challenged his challenge and came up with enough evidence of his business/ previous earnings/ lifestyle/ payments to me and his previous family to get the assessment of earnings upheld.

He took me to court a year after he did previously to apply for more access (bringing access for each kids to 52 nights/ 104 days), Obviously intended to get CMS discount. This has not yet been resolved.

Although the CMS assessment means the amount owed to me has dropped, and, although he says his earnings have dropped, I have continued to be paid for the full amount I previously got (half our rent). A small part of this comes from him from his account. Another amount comes from a relative from another account.

I initially thought that was okay... I don't care so long as I get the money. I thought his relative cared about us.

But AI suggests this is very sinister and he is tanking his income/ diverting his income with a view to securing a lower CMS assessment after the filing of his next tax return.

I think I know what is going on from AI. I feel I have been very naive. Is there real life experience/ advice out there? And how do I handle it?

I’m not suggesting give up. I’m suggesting not relying on it. CMS is based on taxable income. It’s well known that self employed people can get round this by receiving most of their income in dividends.

The fact that currently he is paying part of your rent, and someone else paying another chunk of it, in lieu of maintenance isn’t really relevant is it? He’s paying maintenance at the required amount based on his taxable income. That’s all he has to do.

If you’re relying on this, despite earning well yourself, you’ll need to cut your cloth accordingly.

your getting hung up on the wrong sort of thing is you're worried which relative is paying him which amount of money to which account and why! And how do you think we have the answer to that anyway?

Expecting an ex-boyfriend to fund half of a £4200 rent payment is cheeky. He's only expected to pay child support.

Is the reason you rent because you had to leave the former property because it was in his sole name? Yet another poor decision, if so

the best thing to do is to stop throwing dead money at a rental and buy your own place.

Thanks. I'm not "copying" my ex boyfriend's life. I was a major contributor to the lifestyle we had. Nor was it that fancy a lifestyle, it was an ordinary working couple's lifestyle in an expensive part of the world. There were reasons we didn't get married. I do own a property. I don't live in it. I can look after my kids and of course I will. I would rather their Dad paid what he legally owes too and is not able to swerve it by clever manipulation of his income/ payments. I am not here for a post-mortem on my previous life choices or for general financial advice. I am asking for advice on a very specific fact scenario that I thought somebody might be able to help with. If you can help with this specific fact scenario and what my ex/ their relative might be doing and how I should deal with it, please let me know.

Sorry I don't have an answer to your question but I just wanted to say that I'm surprised MN users have such a shitty attitude towards children, side with the abuser and pile onto the victim.

No wonder children are being so easily abused if this is the prevailing attitude in the society. Many other countries would just restrict his movements until he pays in full.

Re. AI, I used it to write to my ex's solicitors and I think it tends to "imagine" all sorts of sinister scenarios and slide into an aggressive mode fairly quickly even if you specifically ask it to stick to a neutral tone. It feeds on court papers and court cases are always acrimonious so there is a heavy bias in AI analysis and output. So yes, you and your children are being financially abused but it probably doesn't matter if it's being done via the split payments or in any other way.

Thanks for the words of support

You’re hung up on the relative paying thing. It’s irrelevant. Is he doing it to show reduced income? Most probably yes. Is there anything you can do about it? No, unless you want to get into a case with CMS where they look at the discrepancy between his stated income and lifestyle - which given he seems to be hiding behind this relative, would probably not succeed. Is it shitty deplorable behaviour from
him? Absolutely yes.

If your lifestyle as a single parent is desperate and you’re struggling to put food on the table, then I assume your salary and childcare costs mean your can claim UC - so do that. Otherwise, it sounds as if you’re renting too large a place - your kids just might have to share a room I’m afraid. That’s generally what happens when parents split up - lifestyles change when one parent isn’t financially protected through marriage.

Can anyone suggest a reason why my ex might be paying me a low rate from his bank account, while letting a relative unsolicited top up the difference so in fact I am receiving a little more than the CMS assessment that has recently been made and he has recently challenged? While I initially thought maybe the relative was helping, I now think maybe there is something a bit more sinister going on and I want to work out what so I can take appropriate action. It's a fact-specific scenario, so I would appreciate a fact-specific answer if anyone has one. Thank you legal brains!

You won't hear from anyone who can help with this. There is nothing to help with. Just because your don't like something doesn't mean it's illegal or can somehow be altered.

What you "feel" including being horrified, thinking it's all unfair, and being financially abused, are simply your own opinions and nothing to do with the actual facts of the matter. You are not being financially abused and it's quite insulting to women who have experienced genuine financial abuse to stamp your feet that an ex boyfriend won't rent you a silly house you can't afford.

Here are the facts of the matter.

You have gone to the CMS. So that's what you get now, instead of any previous private arrangement.

Is he paying you that amount. That's all that matters. What his mum or whoever might be sending isn't from him. So if the amount he's paying you isn't the amount CMS has calculated, then you can ask for the rest.

However, if you are already receiving the rest from his mum etc, it would be a pretty stupid move to claim he needs to pay it himself.

He's let you know you need to live between your means. He's giving you notice that he's not bankrolling you, and isn't obligated too, so better you stop sticking your head in the sand sooner rather than later.

If you already own a property why not move back in? Or sell it and buy something else? This is really bizarre victim mentality, and quite frankly an insult to those who actually experience this.

Thanks everyone. Because I have my own means does not mean I am not being abused or at least badly taken advantage of. I will leave Mumsnet legal page now, which I found completely useless and hostile! I came here for specific advice on a specific matter not to be told I'm "entitled"/ "stupid"/ "copying my ex boyfriend's lifestyle" etc. Have a lovely afternoon.

He’s not self employed. He has a limited company (dividends)

a limited company has to provide accounting to HMRC and he cannot hide income.

he may pay himself a “stupidly low income” as a tax efficient measure, but if he takes the rest as dividends they are declared to HMRC and will be taxed and recorded as income.

unfortunately o/p I do not think this is financial abuse. You weren’t married so the only financial arrangement is CMS. You have been through that and are getting payments as dictated by is income. You are both allowed to request a review.

he is not controlling your money or your spending, he is paying CMS. Where is the abuse?

If the OP is receiving more money than the CMS has ordered, then he is paying more than full. Unless there is absolute evidence that he has falsely claimed a much reduced income, there’s bugger all that can be done by the OP other than what she has already done. Sadly, that’s the legal position.

Does your ex have other children or live with someone who does? This could impact the amount of CMS he has to be paid.

When 20 people tell you the facts and you don't like them, doesn't mean those facts are useless. How many times do you have to be told the reality, only to ask "anyone else got some help for me?" The answers you want to hear don't exist. Yes, he can alter his wages. And not always through dastardly means. He's showing you who he is. He's telling you to find a house you can afford. You know, like everyone else does. You're going to be getting a lot, lot less. Start planning.

You can't afford this £4k monthly rent. There's no point getting angry and saying how unfair it is because an ex boyfriend of yours can. You cant. You're a one person with 2 kids. You don't need a £4k a month house that you openly say you can't afford . You want one , but that's absolutely irrelevant, not "hideously unfair" and "being taken advantage of." You want to ignore that you've got your own property and don't need one like this, arguing "that's not what I'm asking" but we can't make it any simpler. You're not getting that money any more, that was over what you should have been getting anyway. And you admit you need that full level of money to stay in that property. So people are suggesting other more realistic options, although you seem insistingly entitled to only consider living in a rented house that's out of your price range.

And on the information you've given here you are not being abused, please stop insulting the genuine survivors of abuse.

Yes, as I said, it's very easy for shit parents to financially abuse their children in the UK. And MN users seem to support this 🤷‍♀️

BTW he might be preparing for HMRC MTD when it's going to be harder to hide business revenue and profit (though not impossible, I guess). Or depending on his turnover, he might have been required to do MTD since April as far as I remember.

I don’t think anyone has claimed it’s ok or supported what he’s doing. Simply pointing out that it is perfectly legal, however shit it’s, and there’s nothing that OP can do except not get used to a particular lifestyle unless she can afford it on her own income because that’s not fair to the DCs.

If you don't think so, then you were skipping the posts above 😁 Or, more likely, you feel they're perfectly fine.

Anyway, OP won't get anything from her ex, that's true.

not get used to a particular lifestyle unless she can afford it on her own income because that’s not fair to the DCs.

This is not correct btw. If the children were at private school and he refused to pay the fees, it's not OP's lifestyle, it's the children's education. OP could have sued him for fees but apparently didn't so it's late now too. However, if the children are now being forced out of the house near their school and there are no cheaper houses available in the area (eg think South Ken), this is again not the OP's lifestyle but disruption to the DC's education. etc

My older child was withdrawn from private secondary school, which she had done the exams for and was about to start, with two weeks notice. Not by me! The people on this thread saying I am not making adaptations to my circs have no idea

In one breath you massively contributed to this really big household income, own your own spare property, say you are a high earner and can look after yourself and your children.

In the next, you can't pay their school fees.

There may be a reason as to why your ex boyfriend suddenly stopped the kids fees, or maybe he's just a total arse - but you need to take accountability too that you've banked on you and your children being maintained at an high level by someone who has zero obligation other than a CMS payment. His business could go under next week. Who are you going to be mad at then for not being able to live in a £4k a month rental? Your housing is your financial responsibility. And you are responsible for 50% of your children's housing added on to that.

He's not abusing you, and whilst it's unusual for the children to have their school fees suddenly stopped like that, it's not just his role to pay them. It's yours too. If he doesn't want them to go to that school anymore, he gets to choose that as the only person paying for it. If you can't pay the fees, then they can't go to that school. You aren't the ex wife. There is no recourse. Getting mad because their father doesn't have to pay any of this, but you feel entitled to it doesn't achieve anything but more bad feeling for you. You have your reasons for not getting married I'm sure, but these are the consequences of that.

Going round in circles that he's legally allowed to whack up his pension contributions and take less wage, will only wear you down. If my husband only takes half the dividend he could this year, to leave more capital in the business for growth, that's perfectly legal. As it is for your ex boyfriend. The CMS are barely fit for purpose and will do nothing about it.

You are a single adult, and no one has to help you with housing, school fees, anything. It's not a question of should they. Whatever has gone on with you and the ex boyfriend, that's clearly off the table. You need to look at where you can long term comfortably support yourself, and at least half of your children's essential costs - preferably all. Don't bank on any CMS. Because if his business sinks tomorrow and you have to rely on him just to meet your basic bills, you and your children will be in the absolute shit.

There is realistically nothing you can do about him and his salary. The question you need to be asking is what do you need to do to make sure you have a sustainable home and lifestyle, that you have full ownership of. Take what you think is fair out of the equation. There is no subjectivity here, it's not a divorce.

Good luck OP.

OP, you are posting on social media. Which means you will get random answers and a lot of projection.

However, there is no indication of financial abuse in the arrangement you describe. He has no financial responsibility for you. He does for his children and you have confirmed he is paying what he needs.

The situation you seem to be describing relates to the uncertainty over whether he can and will continue to make this contribution. I am guessing you find this stressful and your issue is whether he is doing that deliberately to unsettle you. This would be abusive behaviour. As we don’t know anything about him, his behaviour or his business, we don’t know. It is the peril of being financially reliant on another person, their business and their income. It can change. Which is what he has told you.

He has specifically pushed for a CMS calculation. He is limiting his payment to this amount. This would indicate he is demonstrating he doesn’t have an ability to pay the higher amount from his current income. The money a relative is paying you is another matter. Have you asked why this person is giving you money and they will continue to give it to you.

As to whether you should or should not have agreed to this arrangement, you need to speak to a solicitor. In high value cases child support and other costs can be agreed in court. It might be too late for that or it might never have been feasible. If you do engage a solicitor be clear about what you want to achieve.