Concerned about ex H arranging contraception appointment for our vulnerable (just) 15-year-old daughter.

[IhateSPSS]

For context, my daughter has been struggling with her mental health for the last couple of months. It's really escalated in the last couple of weeks. She's been self harming, and she's been referred to the Mental Health Support Team at school and on the waiting list for counselling (12 months wait) I have just been dosing her in love as an approach but have felt confused about where this escalation has come from.

There was an incident last night where she got upset so I sat her down and had a decent, open talk. Turns out her dad spoke to her a few weeks ago and said 'I think it's looking like you are reaching the point with X (her boyfriend) where it's looking likely you are going to have sex so I think you should go on the pill. I'll make you a doctor's appointment'. This doctors appointment is on Tuesday and he's going to ask for her to go on the pill for her painful periods, but she says it's so she's on contraception. I have had endo & a hysterectomy for gynae issues, and said I think I should take her with my experience and he has refused. She only turned 15 a week ago and her boyfriend is 14. I don't think they are ready and told her this and I think she needs to be stronger emotionally for a huge life event. She said it's not my choice and has the green light from her dad to go ahead.

I emailed him voicing my concerns (we split up in 2015, he was physically, sexually and financially abusive, came out as high risk at MARAC, we only have email contact for my safety) - he replied saying he 'wanted to fully understand where they were up to in terms of sleeping together. I suggested that going on the pill might be an option and basically you don't wait until you've had sex before you start...things start to happen at their age.'

I can't tell you why but something feels off in my gut. Ex was very coercively controlling of me and the DC and I feel like he's managing DD's entry into sexual activity and I think it's weird. I'm a realist and I know teenagers do this but less than three weeks ago she was saying she wasn't ready...now she's seeing a health professional about contraception. It feels a vital step is missing in that she hasn't considered if she's emotionally ready and also whether it's a good idea to 1. Become sexually active with serious emotional difficulties going on 2. Start to mess with your hormones on top of this.

Ex is ignoring me now. I'm planning on contacting the GP tomorrow but know they can't break patient confidentiality and don't need parental permission to issue contraception. I know some of you will say he's being responsible etc but he didn't do this with our oldest child (DS), he's going to lie to the GP about the period issue and he's displaying alienating behaviours by not involving me on something so important. But most of all I'm worried about the impact this is having on DD, she seems confused, her dignity & private life is being 'managed' and her distress seems to have escalated since that conversation. Anyone got any advice or similar experience?

As someone with safeguarding experience (& hoping @IhateSPSSsees this), I’d be asking to speak to the safeguarding lead at the surgery (& want email address so can back everything up in email so there is audit trail of them receiving these concerns) - having clear bullet points about the concerns about ex-H’s behaviour to you + his sudden interest in “helping” manage DD’s reproductive health/encouraging her lying about reasons for wanting the pill - all big red flags.
Would hope they would have their spidey senses tingling anyway if the Dad was v vocal during the appt/appeared keener than your daughter - father/daughter appts for this sort of issue are unusual & especially if you are the key NOK on records if I was the GP, I’d be curious around this/wanting to feel certain there wasn’t any coercion & that DD was fully onboard (even from pov to ensure concordance with taking the pill).

It's probably a good time to have a talk about boundaries if she's already expressed she doesn't feel ready to have sex, and with her dad choosing her contraception for her. Does she know about your sexual abuse? She can certainly learn from that.
Why even lie to Dr? That doesn't make sense. And she can go to the drs or family planning clinic to sort her own contraception, tell her when she feels ready and mature enough to be having a sexual relationship, she can of course seek support and advice from parents etc, but she should be able to source and choose her own contraception. It's her body.

This OP! It sounds horrendous, like he is trying to sexualise her early. It sounds like the talks about the idea of sex is coming more from him as opposed to her confiding in him and so on.
It feels like a form of abuse to me. If hes a narcissist this is a known pattern.

Raise a safeguarding concern with the GP including that your ex has a history of abusive coercive control and ask that they insist that as your DD needs to demonstrate Gillick Competence (see https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/consent-to-treatment/children/ for details) to consent to this, she needs to have the appointment without either parent present in order that this capacity can be assessed. That will give her a space to decide for herself. It might well be that it is the right decision for her anyway.

Do you have any suspicion that your DD might be in danger of sexual abuse from your ex?

Even if she is in no direct danger from him, she will have subconsciously learned a blueprint for relationship dynamics from observing you and exH when you were together - is her boyfriend in any way likely to be abusive or controlling in the same way?

Apart from anything else I’d be cautious about the long-term hormonal effect on a young teen.

Also I hope everyone is using “the pill” as a generic term for contraception? A 3-year implant would be a MUCH better option for a teen - get it and forget it. Not a pill she has to take every day at the same time which will lose efficiency if she’s ever sick!

Could you ask your son to go with her when she stays with her dad? Would he have the sensitivity, do you think, to notice coercion?

He was mentally and physically abusive to the OP also MARAC means there was a danger of death to the OP. She communicates with him only via email.
I should think her life would be in danger if she rocks up to the appointment with her daughter and her father.
N

You seemed to be in denial so it's no surprise he wants to take her and insisting on dealing with it.

There is nothing wrong with a dad taking his daughter to discuss reproduction and prevention. It's actually refreshing to see a dad doing so.

The doctor will deal with it professionally. They will speak to her alone and make sure she is baking decisions she is happy with.

15 years old get pregnant much too often because their parents are too naive to believe they gave started to be sexually active and then the situation is much more stressful and distressing when they fall pregnant. Your ex is being a responsible parent.

As a mother your instincts are correct, protect your DD, go right in there and say this is not right. Your DD does not need to be present but you need to have a very frank conversation with your ExH and tell him honestly your concerns.

This is not a normal situation. How many women on MN can say that they were put on contraception by the fathers. This is the domain of women and should remain so.

@IhateSPSS, you are willing to accompany your DD to the appointment. Surely your ExH, should understand that this should be done.

Just him turning up with your DD might raise concerns from the GP. The GP will speak to her alone on this, and just because ExH thinks she needs to have contraception it doesn’t mean it will be prescribed. There have been threads on MN on the topic of 15 year olds being prescribed contraception for period pain and it is not always just handed out due parents requests.

Do everything you can to intervene here. Your ExH should not be advocating this for her, you should.

It's not hyperbole.

A long time ago I needed to call the NSPCC for advice on something equally as ambiguous as this. Part way through the call, the call handler warned me that if I gave any identifying information, she would be duty bound to make a safeguarding report herself.

This is how basic safeguarding works. Adults have a duty to report concerns and suspicions that a child might come to harm. Small pieces of information that might mean nothing or might form part of a bigger picture.

I think your ex-husband is being eminently sensible. I would do the same in his shoes except I would be honest with the doctor that it’s for contraception to ensure I got the right dose.

It pains me to say it given how you describe him - can it be that your traumatic experiences with him are clouding your judgement here?

Being on the pill is not more likely to make her have sex. I think you’ll need to actively monitor her wellbeing though, as the pill can have quite strong mental and physical side effects.

All of this - however GPs are not always as alert as they should be with safeguardings so please call the surgery before the appointment to make them aware of the issue. I would also be calling the local safeguarding number for your area as this is a warning sign for sexual abuse.

Honestly I don’t disagree with much of what you’ve written as my DH took our DD to sort out contraception but in this instance you are ignoring a lot of the context provided.

I have a seriously abusive brother and a seriously abusive FIL so I’ve a lot of experience with these types. You are completely underestimating the ability of these men to abuse prolifically and to endlessly manipulate everyone around them. The thing that is most shocking is I would say people generally are nearly universally unbelievably easy for these types to manipulate and I include myself in that. It took me a long time to exclude them from how things “should” be to how things actually are with them.

It's important to also bear in mind that no contraceptive pill comes without its side effects.
I was on the POP from the ages of 17 - 42, stopping only to have my three children (I couldn't take the combined as when I was started on that I had a very minor stroke).
What I didn't really appreciate was how much the pill was impacting upon my anxiety at times; when I finally came off it forever at 42 it felt like a weight had been lifted! It was great!
So for posters stating "All teenager girls should be on the pill 'just in case'" - absolutely not!!!

I’m not sure if anyone else has said it but I’d also see her keeping you on the phone until 1am as another red flag.

You are doing the right thing in intervene, and I hope she is OK.

Agree with pps that this is extremely concerning. He sounds like the abuser that he is.
I agree this is a massive red flag for abuse and coercive control. I am baffled by posters saying he sounds like a responsible parent . He is still controlling you OP, the lying, the control of the appointment. Your dd is really young, she was 14 a few weeks ago and her boyfriend is 14. He doesn’t sound realistic about the possibility of her relationship becoming sexual, he sounds overly invested.
I would be doing everything in my power to avoid my underage daughter having sex, not shoving her into it. He sounds more like a pimp than a father.
One of my close friends as a teenager was being raped by her father. I think it can be hard for people who don’t know men like this, to understand the depth of the manipulation. He was so friendly, so pally with all of us. He came across to 14 year olds as such a cool, relaxed dad. He wasn’t as strict as other parents, he talked about drugs etc. My friend seemed bold, confident, self assured. Only as an adult can I see that she had no idea what safety looked like.
Her father was incredibly manipulative. Anne, my friend, would say how much she loved him. Her mother left when she was 14 and she chose to stay with her Dad. Later she said that the abuse only started when her Mum left, but I don’t think that was true.
OP I have no way of knowing whether your ex is also abusing your dd, but at best this is coercive and creepy behaviour from a man with a no doubt lengthy history of abuse and hatred of women. I would be doing my best to stop my dd from seeing him at all. I have never understood how men like this, so clearly dangerous, get access to their children. Especially as we now know more about the impact of coercive control and manipulation .

to answer a pp, yes I am using “the pill” as shorthand for appropriate contraception.

i used to work in a school and on occasion pastoral staff would take students to the GP and arrange contraception because the student was a vulnerable child and the parents were going down the “I’ll just tell them not to have sex” route.

in general these were students who were known to SS and I presume processes had been followed.

obviously I do not know if your dd is being sexually abused by her dad or not and it is correct to raise your suspicions if you have them.

however many parents do feel it is their responsibility (and the correct course of action) to arrange a gp appointment to sort out contraception if there is any risk of sex taking place. It’s well known that telling teen girls not to have sex is not a successful strategy for preventing pregnancy.

also if she is having to take time off school for bad periods then clearly she does have bad periods and this is not a lie.

I agree with @CryptoFascist

This is not a normal situation. How many women on MN can say that they were put on contraception by the fathers. This is the domain of women and should remain so
Funny how women shout about inequalities, moan that fathers don't do enough and then sprout sexist rubbish like this.

Fathers are perfectly capable of managing matters of contraception with their daughters. Why wouldn't they be? It's great that fathers are starting to show more care of their teenage daughters. It doesn't gave to be taboo and the fact that some posters are assuming some kind of twisted reasoning for it is frankly highly concerning. Should we demand that only female doctors be entitled to discuss contraception?

I feel really sorry for dads who gave to deal with misogynist ex partners. Thankfully the courts are on their side.

No, it's not a normal situation – as OP said:

he was physically, sexually and financially abusive, came out as high risk at MARAC, we only have email contact for my safety

So a physically and sexually abusive man is now pressuring his young teenage daughter – who over the last several months has had sudden severely escalating mental health issues, including self harm – to lie to the GP to get onto the contaceptive pill...

And that's not ringing any alarm bells for you? Your naivety is concerning.

Do you know which GP is seeing her? Get a letter/ email to him/her outlining your OH's history and your entirely valid concerns. If necessary take a letter to the surgery and say it is very important that the GP reads this before they see your DD.
Your ex's behaviour is very odd indeed. If he had come to you to discuss and a mutual decision had been made in joint discussion with your DD thst would be different.
The current situation is very worrying.

Nothing OP has written suggests that her daughter is being abused by her dad, on the contrary. It's OP that has an issue with the idea of her daughter having sex and that could be what puts her daughter in danger.

If her daughter was in danger with her dad, she had the option to take the matter to court. Either she didn't, so doesn't think she is in danger with him, or the court deemed that she was safe with him.

Let's not forget that she is 15 and in all likelihood will be deemed to be able to make her own decisions. She will see the doctor alone and will have control over what she discusses with them and which medication she takes. Taking her when she is in a serious relationship is the responsible thing to do. Pretending it is not happening because it makes you uncomfortable to think of your child having sex is being irresponsible.

Her daughter has made it clear to her she is happy to live in both households.

I think in this situation you have to talk to your DD and try and get to the bottom of what she wants. I think exdh is using this as a control tactic over you and your daughter simply because he can, but I don’t think contraception is a bad idea either if she’s happy to take a pill etc. it’s better to be on it as you never know when the moment might happen for teens.

does she live with you or him? You could also flag it to the GP in case of any future issues but on this occasion I don’t see that it will help. It isn’t really a safeguarding issue unless he’s pushing her to have sex (in which case still is not a GP issue). I would keep an eye though based on the abuse he has shown you and keep the communication open with your daughter.

is there any chance that he is displaying the same abusive behaviours to her? Could that be to do with the self harm? Could be abit of a reach but it happened to someone In our family and I wish we had realised sooner

You clearly don’t understand how abuse dynamics work, yet you speak with an unwarranted confidence as though you’re an authority on the subject.

No. As pp has said, you clearly don't understand abuse dynamics and how they can present.

There's no strong evidence that OP's ex is abusing their daughter in some way, no. But there are multiple red flags, and neither the fact that the ex seemed safe in the past, or that the OP's daughter is choosing to go and stay with him, mean that he's not being abusive to her now.

The OP should talk to the GP about her concerns. Contraceptives would be sensible if the OP's daughter wants to have sex with her boyfriend, but given that only three weeks ago the daughter said she wasn't ready, until her father pushed the issue, there are worries.