Private/Wills

[PinkOtter]

Hello happy new year everyone!

my mother passed away in 2021, my sister did the probate as no will and at the time I didn’t question it. My mother left her house valued at £130,000.

I got a call when completed from her stating “mum had unexpected debts we didn’t know about so there’s £1000 each left” I just accepted that and left it at that.

a few months ago I requested the certificate, and it stated there was no debts at all, the house was sold to my sisters daughter, and recently learnt from extended family that some got a good chunk of that money, so I’m thinking to speak to a solicitor shortly to see where I stand

is this Will fraud? I was in no way estranged from my mother, and no reason I should’ve been left out of her estate.

Absolutely.

If there was no will, then your mum died intestate, and there are clear rules about how the estate should be shared out and to whom. Your sister seems to have behaved illegally.

Even if so much time has passed?

what do you think will happen?

Yes, the time scale isn't excessive at all, but even if it was, she still behaved illegally.

I'm not sure exactly what will happen. If you have access to a free legal helpline within your home insurance (most include it) give them a call and they will advise you.

You are fine to pursue a claim. Get some legal advice. If your mother died without a will with no partner then the estate would be split equally between her children. If your sister applied for Letters of Administration and then didn't distribute the state in accordance with the intestacy rules she can be held personally liable.

Get to a lawyer as soon as they open in new yesr. They can advise on limitation issues (ie. the date by which legal proceedings would need to be issue) if they fail to hand over your share properly. The solicitor will be able to write a letter on your behalf asking for them to account properly for the estate and distributions made.

And yes a good idea to see if you have legal cover on insurance although you may prefer to fins your own lawyer as insurance companies often use "factory style firms".

I don't think 4 years is too long a time to claim for theft of £65k!

Are you not absolutely livid?

Yes it is fraud and it is very likely your sister will be prosecuted once all facts are disclosed (through the proper channels). The fact there was no Will is a red herring - this is exactly what the intestacy laws are there to do. In fact, you could argue that in the absence of a Will there is no ambiguity because the intestacy laws are clear.

The other side is that you can be reinstated or compensated, likely via a court order to force the sale. It may be possible for sister and niece to obtain a mortgage to buy you out.

This is a case of clear fraud and the estate was only £100,000:

Brian Fairs, 77, is guilty of copying and pasting Gillian Williams’ signature, then forging a will to try and ensure a share of her £100,000 estate. His wife, Julie Fairs, also earns a conviction of forgery and fraud. However, her 12-month sentence comes with a suspension.

It might be worth letting your sister know that unless you and any other siblings are given your money sharpish then she will be reported and likely prosecuted. Perhaps that letter coming from a solicitor will put a rocket under her. Getting the house valued (independently) could be part of this. Have you been able to find out if your mum had savings too?

Don't be surprised if your sister claims you agreed to accept only £1,000 and other nonsense. You can only disclaim formally under a deed. But people try it on all the time.

Get some free legal advice, then let your sister know that you intend to take legal action. You might well find that she will suddenly come up with your share, rather than end up in court and almost certainly be found guilty of fraud.

Not sure whether to wait till I’ve spoken to a solicitor or send her a message myself!

What evidence have you got or will it be turned on hearsay (at least initially).

The bank transfer & the probate certificate is all I have!
she had no debts that I knew about!

I would contact your sister initially in writing and set out the narrative she gave you, ie your mother had significant debts, there was only £2,000 left to split between you and that you have now learned that was not the case as evidenced by gifts to those who were not entitled. Ask her for a list of the debts - name of creditor, goods or services supplied, amount of debt. then when you receive her reply - which will be inadequate - advise her you are obtaining legal advice. Then get legal advice. Don't aggravate the situation, let the solicitor deal with it. You will want one who deals with contentious estates, not too small and not too large a firm given the amount involved.

Agreed

Everything has to be in writing and factual. You must be dispassionate.

Then let a solicitor deal with recovering the money she's stolen.

You should have been provided with proper accounts for the estate - the gross estate (the value in it) including values of accounts, any pension sums or life insurance credits, and the outgoings to be debited from this - including any bills still due, the funeral expenses and cost of the wake etc.

Yes this is fraud. It’s a criminal offence. Sorry that you’ve been treated this way - regardless of what may have happened in the past between you as a family it should have been dealt with properly.

She may have sold the property at under value. Executors have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of the estate so selling an asset for less than the value due would also be prohibited unless all beneficiaries of the estate agree to this. She’s pulled a fast one,

Also if there was no will I think you’d have letters of administration as it’s an intestate estate (no will). There’s very specific rules about distribution of an estate when there is no will.

As a PP said - ask for the evidence of the debts. There must be evidence of she’s claiming over 100k of debts

Everything has to be in writing and factual. You must be dispassionate

That is really important. Any communication with her must be in writing, and read as if you've never met her and are dealing with a strictly professional situation.

Personally I'd be asking my sister about it first before rushing to a solicitor.
"Hi sis I'm confused because you told me.mum had debts but now it's come to light she didn't and I just heard that gifts were made also. Can you let me have the list of debts because I'm just unclear how the figure of £1k to all of us was arrived at. Thanks "

I wasn’t provided with anything, I wasn’t told the probate had been completed for a while either, I just assumed as she took control of it she would deal with it fairly but as of recently I’ve been thinking about it a lot hence why I requested the probate certificate which just states the amount of the estate and sisters name
her daughter did take a mortgage out to purchase the house, with help from my sister for the deposit.

... But first of all, please call a free legal helpline if your insurance has one. Mine is 24/7 and they were absolutely brilliant with me, again, over a contentious probate. I initially called at 10pm when I was beside myself, and the person I spoke to was just wonderful in calming me down. I had about ten phone calls with them over a period of a few months, and every single person was incredibly helpful. Only after I'd had all the help from then that they could provide in a constantly changing situation, did I need to instruct a solicitor to take over.

Are you certain the house was sold at market value? That could be another issue, if your niece bought it at a reduced price thus reducing the amount in the estate

You still have time- its 12 years , so yes you definitely can make a claim

'Claims to receive a beneficiaries interest in a deceased’s personal estate, being under a Will or Intestacy, must be brought within 12 years of the right to the interest arising. This is a claim where the party already has the interest in the estate, and is not an argument over whether they should be given an interest/entitlement to share in the estate.'

Before you do anything with your sister, get legal advice as to exactly what should have happened. I think you need to have some knowledge behind you and to be prepared.

There is an anomaly in the facts here, but why would your niece need a mortgage to buy the house and from whom? If your sister provided the deposit then she would not normally be the vendor (she would be a mortgagee). I think this is going to be an interesting one to sort out and your sister has been creating a tangled web of lies.