Private/Wills

[PinkOtter]

Hello happy new year everyone!

my mother passed away in 2021, my sister did the probate as no will and at the time I didn’t question it. My mother left her house valued at £130,000.

I got a call when completed from her stating “mum had unexpected debts we didn’t know about so there’s £1000 each left” I just accepted that and left it at that.

a few months ago I requested the certificate, and it stated there was no debts at all, the house was sold to my sisters daughter, and recently learnt from extended family that some got a good chunk of that money, so I’m thinking to speak to a solicitor shortly to see where I stand

is this Will fraud? I was in no way estranged from my mother, and no reason I should’ve been left out of her estate.

I’m thinking to send another message, I’ve spoke to some solicitors today about it, they have requested I try and contact first to see if I can get hold of the accounts but she has not replied to the first message which consisted of asking her to clarify where the money went and why I got such a minimal amount

@PinkOtter I think you need to give your sister a little longer than a few hours to respond.

I suggest on Monday you email again requesting the accounts as a residual beneficiary you are legally entitled to a copy. Give her a specific date to respond. Reasonably I would give her 2 weeks.

In the meantime email the main probate office and request the forms to request a summons. They will email them within a few days.

I honestly think a summons for the accounts might make her realise she has to comply.

I know you will want this quicker but you need to demonstrate you are the reasonable party.

I got a reply- telling me to go to a solicitor and I’ll see where the money went!

OK well just do that, ask her what solicitor she used for probate and the house sale as they will have records. Do you know how much the house sold for, is she claiming it all went on debts and you and her only got 1k each at the end.

When asked for accounts she replied “what accounts” so not sure if she even knows she was supposed to do that?

she’s not claimed it went to debt she just said “here’s £1000 I’m not going into it but that’s all your getting there’s been unexpected finances” or something along the lines of that
but we know factually there was more left as gifts have been given here and there, holidays/new car purchases etc that she wouldn’t normally be able to afford

Was there definitely no will. She would have had to prepare accounts showing debts and assets to the probate office, the bills must have been paid by someone.

HMCTS does not require a set of accounts. A lot of expenses will have been incurred after the grant was issued eg solicitor costs for sale of house. You can’t sell a property without a grant so the cost against the estate when the grant is issued is not known. I was the executor for my DM’s estate. The amount distributed between beneficiaries does not equal the net amount of my DM’s estate as per the grant because the estate agent costs and solicitor fees also need to be deducted.
No accounts are prepared for HMCTS just the appropriate form is completed depending on size of estate, tax due etc. It is the personal representative’s responsibility to produce estate accounts but these are done after the grant has been issued and do not need to be registered anywhere.

Agree with @Harassedevictee - you need to give her a set time to respond but request the forms at the same time. You don’t need to incur the expense of a solicitor doing this for you.
www.human-law.co.uk/_cmroot/human-law.co.uk/blog/an-introduction-to-requst-for-inventory-and-account.aspx

An executor or administrator has to prepare final probate accounts which residual beneficiaries are entitled to see

@PinkOtter she has messed up.

Send her this link https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/records

I would emphasis HMRC can request the information for up to 20 years.

She must have prepared accounts to know there was only 1k left to each of you, how else could she arrive at that pretty strange rounded amount

Did you sign anything to say that you accepted the lower inheritance?

Just in case she tries this - if there was a will (you referred to private and not letters of administration which are issued when there is no will ‘intestacy rules’) then if you relinquish your right to inherit under a will I’m sure it should be shared amongst the other beneficiaries in the same proportion as the other gifts in the will.

It can't be will fraud if there's no will and wouldn't it be letters of administration rather than executor that was applied for, do they both get issued a probate certificate which just shows who is administering the estate and the gross /net amounts based on the information the probate office are given

It is open to a beneficiary to sign a deed of variation that gives some or all of their share of the estate to others. They can give their share to anyone they want, not just other beneficiaries. However, if they simply refuse the bequest, it goes back into the estate to be distributed amongst the other beneficiaries. On the information we have here, if OP refused her inheritance, it would all have gone to her sister.

It is actually executor fraud regardless of whether there was a will. Will fraud is when the will itself is created fraudulently.

Yes, you apply for letters of administration if there is no will, but that is essentially the same as a grant of probate and the person administering an intestate estate is still generally referred to as the executor.

Never signed anything to agree etc, going to try and write to the probate for a summons so I can see where the money went

thank you all for your help

Writing to the probate office won't get you anywhere. You need to make an application to Court for an inventory and account. If the court is happy that there is a good reason to make the order, your sister will have to pay the costs. I would strongly recommend consulting a solicitor.

@prh47bridge With respect, the probate office sent me the appropriate forms to complete so I could apply to the court.

Can I make the application myself or would that be with the solicitor to do?

thanks

@PinkOtter please take note of the expert advice you are getting from @prh47bridge who has helped so many on here.

Yes you can. As @Harassedevictee said you can get the forms from the probate registry.

You then fill them in and send them off to the court. There is no fee for doing this yourself. Although, of course, if you get a solicitor to do it then it will cost quite a bit.

Your first step is to send a letter before action to the executor giving her at least 14 days to provide you with the estate inventory and accounts, and stating that you anticipate taking legal action if she does not provide them in that time. If she does not respond satisfactorily, you are then in a position to take action. You can make the application yourself. If your sister ignores the order, you will have to take her to court for enforcement.

In the messages via WhatsApp she has responded to “go to the solicitor or police no fraud happened you’ll see where the money went”

Am I right in thinking my next step is to write a formal letter to her home and give her a set time frame to provide these?

youve all been so helpful thank you

Yes, tell her that you want to see a full inventory of the estate [what was included in the estate] and an account of the administration of the estate [where the money went].

If she does not respond within 14 days then you will be applying for a court summons to require her to produce the inventory and to account for how the estate has been administered.

She really shouldn't be saying things like this. It just makes it look like she has acted fraudulently. If there is nothing to hide, why not simply provide the accounts? When you send your formal letter, make it clear that, if she does not provide the accounts voluntarily as required by law, you will be asking the courts to make her pay your court fees and any legal fees you incur in getting her to provide you with the accounts.