Baby Removed at Birth Support

[Mumtobe799]

Hello

This is extremely controversial and I feel embarrassed posting but I’m looking for a bit of help. I am due to give birth within the next few weeks and after Social Services involvement throughout my pregnancy, I have been told they will be removing my baby at birth. Baby will be placed with their Dad under an interim court order whilst assessments are ongoing.

Does anybody know what removal at birth actually means? My baby and I will need to stay in hospital for a few days, is it likely I will be able to stay with them or will they likely split us up? These are questions I have asked Social Services but they will not give me an answer.

I would like to breast feed; is this something Social Services have to support as it is in the best interest of baby. My baby is being removed due to mental health concerns, no issues around substance or alcohol abuse so that being in breast milk isn’t a worry.

If anyone with any legal experience or people who may have gone through or know someone who has gone through something similar can help I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

A close relative had both her children brought up by her ex as a result of her PPP being at the top end of the spectrum. She has a close and loving relationship with them. They fully understand the situation and are very supportive of her. It has never affected their bond as mother and child.
Also I was the child of a mother who was hospitalised many times as a result of her PPP. I was with my dad as they stayed married. I loved her dearly and miss her every day as she died relatively young from an undiagnosed heart condition. I just wanted you to know that however dire things might seem right now, they won't always be and your bond with your children will be strong and for life. You won't always be ill and you'll have many wonderful years as a mum to your children.

As awful as it is to hear about your relative it’s comforting to hear someone else has gone through something similar and come out the other end.

I think people might think I’m being dishonest because women mostly go to MBU’s but like your relative my condition was seen as quite extreme so after the birth of my first it was best they were placed with the Dad and it was something I agreed to.

I have no advice either op. Your pain is palpable and am sitting here in tears for you. I cannot imagine what you are suffering. This may not be a"forever", situation. Concentrate on getting yourself well again, first and foremost, I'm sending you much ❤️ 🫂 💐 x

Sending love! It sounds like this mh is for a time period with an end and one day you will be back to the old you and have your children more fully in your life again xx

Just to add to this, within a few days mum began showing signs of psychosis which escalated quite quickly and at that point was transferred from the maternity unit to an inpatient ward at a mental health hospital. She was still visiting baby while “unwell” before being transferred, even though I’m not sure it was beneficial for anyone

I am sure you have thought of everything but have you contacted Coram? They do have independent social workers.

A close friend of mine has legal custody of her sister's daughter; due to similar issues. Psychosis before and during pregnancy. In their case, the Dad refused to live apart from the Mum, so Social Services approached other members of their family. Their parents were considered too old and unwell, but my friend has two kids already and was asked if she'd consider looking after the baby. They all knew this was going to happen from around 22 weeks, I believe.

My friend was called when her sister was in labour and went to be with them as birthing partner. Her sister was also on Aripiprazole, although the baby's levels tested well quite soon after birth, so it ended up being the court paperwork that took the time. They had two days together in hospital, with Mum and Baby supervised by a Social Worker and my friend visiting a couple of times a day. I believe she did the initial breastfeed, but didn't carry on, due to the risk of it feeling like "something else" the baby had lost alongside Mum. I think that's probably quite a personal call. It's hard work to express enough for a baby, especially if the baby isn't near you, and you'll have a long road ahead if that's something you choose to do. It could also trigger more symptoms, if you're sensitive to hormonal changes.

When baby was 6 months old, Dad was offered the chance to be assessed in a unit caring for the baby, which he took - but left after a day as he found it stressful. That pretty much bought to an end any legal challenges around custody, so my friend became legal "Mum" at that point. Little Girl has always been very aware of who her actual mum is, there are photos, but there isn't direct contact between her and either of her parents. She does meet up with her sibling, but she's cared for by her Dad, who is a different man if that makes sense. She calls my friend Mum but seems absolutely fine with having two, and she's a really happy, well-adjusted little girl.

I'll be honest that her sister has ups and downs, it's a horrible situation because it's so traumatic, which doesn't then help the psychosis. I know she hoped for more contact, and to have her daughter back with her one day. I believe she was approached about measures she could take to stabilise herself, which did include removing the risk of future pregnancies as that's a big trigger for her psychosis, but it wasn't a step she was willing to take.

Nobody can say exactly how this will go for you. If father is going to take custody but reluctantly, it's realistic to think he's going to need to do this as easily as possible, so it's probably going to be formula and lots of help from his family. It may well be wise to focus on stabilising yourself rather than the absolute horror of constantly expressing; but it is your call.

You're in my thoughts x

You sound like a really doting mum, that comes across in your posts. It’s really clear you’re doing your best in a really awful situation and are focussing on the best interests of your baby.

I was just concerned that you might not be getting accurate advice here if your situation was more complex than described. People are well-meaning but I’d hate for you to be given wrong information that you accept as fact, because that could lead you to distrust the SW more if they give you different information.

From your update though your DD still sounds very young. If that’s the case, hopefully once you’ve stabilised after this birth you might end up with 50/50 care of both children, even if that takes a little while.

Wishing you the very best.

It would be great if you could show yourself to be more open to engaging with conversations about contraception. Perhaps a surgical would be considered if they are doing a c-section anyway? (Tying/clamping tubes?) Have that chat if you are open to it. Engaging in a positive way about contraception would look good for your engagement with the bossy social worker.

Given OPs state of health I would hope no doctor would even consider sterilising her. She is not healthy enough to give consent at this point to such a procedure.

Is there any reason you can't go to a mother and baby unit?

She’s briefly mentioned it on a reply, her psychosis is deemed too severe for her to go to mother and baby unit

OK, thanks. Apologies for not reading through.

Is there any way your legal team can challenge this decision not to try a Mother and baby unit? Particularly as you already know you are almost definitely going to get post partum psychosis and therefore an admission can be more planned than usual?

Hi OP, I am a social worker. I have removed a couple of babies from birth. My general experience is that baby stays with Mum in the hospital until a court date is put in place. They cannot allocate a court date until your baby has been born and therefore it’s likely there will be a couple of days delay between the birth and actual court. A social worker does not have the power to remove your baby without a court order, they might ask you to sign a Section 20 agreement which is a voluntary agreement allowing another person to care for your child - you don’t have to sign this. I’d recommend you get legal advice before signing any documentation. It’s also likely that the hospital will want a Discharge Planning Meeting before either of you can leave so again depending on availability/when baby is born, you can expect to be in hospital a couple of days until one can be held. You mention they are recommending removal at birth - do you know if a mother and baby unit or foster placement has been considered? If not, mention this to your legal and they can argue for this in court if it has not been considered. Sadly they are not suitable for all mothers and babies and will be decided on a case by case basis.

To give you a little bit of hope, I removed a baby following birth due to mental health issues. The mother was distressed and said she couldn’t ever see herself getting the child back. She engaged so well with all assessments, did all the work asked of her, provided a home that was safe with essentials etc. Eventually her child was returned and she continued to flourish as a Mum.

My advice is to speak to your legal representative, be open and honest with your social worker, ensure you attend all contact sessions and make sure you’re taking your medication/accessing mental health support as they will be your greatest ally. Good luck x

Impossible to say what's 'normal' as every situation is different. The fundamental principle of care proceedings is that children need permanent living arrangements to be determined as quickly as possible. If the older child had permanence with their father there would be no reason for those arrangements to be changed fundamentally, even if the mother became well in future, unless both parents were in agreement.
In the event of long term foster care, a return to parent/family should always be considered of circumstances change, because it's assumed the child will be better with family than in foster care if possible.
in the event of adoption, this is different. Once adoption orders are granted there is no possibility of the child being returned to the parent. This is why it's only done rarely and when the legal test of 'nothing else will do' is met.
All that is a long answer to your question which is basically to say I can't answer but long term decisions are made based on what's best for the child, not the parents.

Why can’t you stay in a mum and baby unit? I have came across mums with post partumn psychosis have their baby stay with them.

This is the case. I am still quite young, under 30. That and the actual consent to such a serious procedure means no doctor will do it.

You sound like you are doing everything you can to put your baby’s health and interests first
do you have a pump to get Brest milk?
the dna test could take weeks who is going to have the baby before then ?
I was mentally I’ll during my pregnancy and I know how hideous it is send all the calm healthy vibes your way
keep engaging with the SS and get all the professional help you can

OP has said about 10 times why a mother & baby unit isn't an option, other posters have reiterated the reason. Read OPs updates.

Thanks @TheSilkWorm, that’s a really helpful summary. I have no knowledge at all so didn’t want to make any wrong assumptions either way.

There will be a discharge planning meeting you are part of after birth with social work team and hospital staff - plus baby's dad.
You will not get rushed out of hospital if medically you need to be there.
You can breast feed however depending on your level of contact thereafter which is often around 3 times a week it would be sensible to express, then baby will get used to a bottle, you can get your supply going and continue to help your baby from a distance.

You can prepare perhaps by having first outfits ready, learning in hospital to change and wash baby and spending time cuddling if you feel this is possible. Take photos and you could also do an album with hand prints etc.

I hope you have a supportive friend of family member who can be there for you.

If I've read this right, you were close to getting 50.50 care with your first when you became pregnant with DC2 and it wasn't planned. However, you have engaged with everything that is requested and it takes two to make a baby so the dad could have prevented the pregnancy too.
I hope you continue to talk and reflect, focus on the long term of being present for your DC in terms of quality interactions (it's not the quantity of time). We are all adults far longer than children but what you say and do now affects their bond with you and their adulthood. Take all the support going to help you be the best mum (and they won't remember breastfeeding so if not possible as your milk contains medications try not to feel hurt about it).

I certainly don’t think that and I know you realise they have to make sure that baby is safe. Hoping it goes well for you all. I’m sorry you are going through this.

Hi OP, I’m so sorry for what you are going through, it sounds deeply stressful and traumatic. I agree with previous posters suggestions of advocacy and seeking an independent social worker. I’m a psychologist and I’ve found this thread really difficult to read. Of course I could never provide any sort of clinical advice just based on MN posts, but the lack of transparency and communication seems striking, so disempowering and potentially re-traumatising. You should not be kept in the dark with no idea what is going to happen - your social worker should be able to talk through different possibilities. I’m sorry you feel judged by your current social worker, and I agree that lots of reports can be very black and white and can be de-humanising. We desperately need to improve mental health services, including perinatal mental health, as there is still so much outdated and problematic processes… and attitudes!

Are you getting any psychological support? This would seem integral to your recovery moving forwards, and would also help you to start piecing things together and making sense of what you’ve been through. It all must be such a fog and I can imagine feeling a strong lack of control and powerlessness. I would definitely be asking to see a clinical psychologist in your position, to support you at such a stressful time.

Not being able to sleep is a big issue, have you been offered any medication that is pregnancy safe? E.g promethazine? It’s good to hear that you have a supportive family network and you’ve built a good relationship with your current child despite the adverse circumstances. Given what you’ve been through I can imagine your sense of threat is heightened which will make dealing with social services all the more difficult. You do all have the shared goal of wanting to keep your baby safe, so try to keep that in mind. Please do not blame yourself or feel bad for the baby going to his/her dad - he was equally as responsible in you getting pregnant, and he should absolutely step up now. Take care of yourself OP, seek advocacy and psychological support - you are strong and you can do this.

Aww this is a sad situation, sending you much love and hope your health improves ❤️

Hi OP. Every situation is so different and weighed up carefully but my adopted twins were removed at birth. In practical terms this meant they stayed on the SCBU for 6 days (before they went to their foster carers) and did spend time with and were breast fed by birth mum. Birth mum stayed on the ward. Birth mum did name them and we have kept these names as their middle names.

Wishing you and your children all the very best 💐