Crazy ex in laws suing for child visitation and parental rights (England)

[Cliffordthedog]

Hi everyone,

I’d really appreciate insight or support of any kind on this, any legal insight would be extremely appreciated.

My ex partners (separated for over a year but not formally divorced yet) parents are taking us to court trying to get visitation and parental right over our daughter, age 3, after we stopped contact with them following an incident where they kicked my ex out of their flat while my daughter was also with them. He tried to get back in to her but they wouldn’t let him.

They’ve made false allegations about us on the form C100, incl. child abuse and neglect (these are completely false and we have plenty of evidence, this child is the light of our lives). My ex has had lifelong struggles with severe depression and alcohol. Never in front of our child. They’re using that to say he’s unfit to be a parent.

There’s a lot of toxicity and abuse in the family. My ex grew up with an enormous amount of trauma from them. His mom is an alcoholic who’s lied about going to rehab (can’t prove that one because ex partners sister won’t provide evidence, she’s their flying monkey). They’ve spat at my ex in front of our daughter. Started fights. Called the police on him for slamming a door (they lied about this on the C100, saying they asked the police to drop any charges while in actuality police saw it as a nuisance call — we have proof).

The sad part is we were naive and intimidated by them for a while after her birth so they were very involved. They have a mean narc streak and going against them was really tough, always. My daughter is their golden child and they’ve always tried to get more and more contact with her. They’d do nice things for us and demand more contact with her in return, then trash talk us to other people. We lived with them for several month so they’re claiming an established bond. But that bond was build on control and manipulation.

I also have a new partner who is my rock. Both him and I support my ex. Me and ex have a good relationship now and our daughter is our priority.

Ex in laws have also twice taken pictures in public of my new partner. Once surreptitiously (then circulated it among their friends) and then while my partner was working (outside). We filed a police report for stalking.

Please, if anyone has any experience with this, I’d appreciate any insight. We have some savings we were hoping to pay for a down payment on a house with. I’m so afraid that this is all going to go down the drain because I was so naive with these people.

Will x-post to raised by narcissists

Read the thread. He’s in active therapy and has never been drunk around her once. There’s a difference between someone seeking treatment and someone actively avoiding it

You can report them for harassment to the police, and go down the restraining order route if you want to go legal.
They have no rights whatsoever for visitation of their grandchildren. None whatsoever in UK law.
Unless parents were found to be majorly neglectful and abusive to the point they could then be awarded custody. But otherwise it's just not legally their right.
I'd be warning them they'll be reported to the police if they don't leave you alone. And block them on all devices.
Do not allow them to intimidate you.

Yeah OK.

Thank you, unfortunately I allowed contact with them for the first two years of her life as I was in a bad place and needed help. My own parents live very far away. I didn’t have anyone else and they took advantage of it.

She has explained he’s in therapy trying to be a better person and get well, and he’s not an abusive person, or a risk to their dd, he prob just leant on alcohol to try and self medicate following a shit childhood. but the grandmother is an alcoholic, narc and abusive person! And has never took steps to get help

Legally they have zero rights.

I'd laugh and let them waste all their money in court.

As another example, my ex sister in law ran away from them with her own child (she was living with them at the time) because they were making her feel terrible and harassing her boyfriend. She stayed at my house for a week hiding from them.

Of course kids are frequently 'dirty' due to playing etc. Your ex ILs sound difficult but is there evidence of them abusing/neglecting your child? It sounds like they love her and want to be part of her life which I understand. I'm not talking parental rights, more visits and days out which could be an enriching experience for your child.
Please consider this.

yes, exactly

Were they helpful and supportive then? Sounds like they were

If incidents like spitting in her fathers face in front of her and violently kicking him out of their flat while she looks on are abuse, then yes I have lots of evidence

@Cliffordthedog that's awful. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with it. But they can't do anything about your kids. And what they're doing is bang out of order. I hope things improve for you and your children x

No judge on earth is going to award them custody and they probs dont have the funds for a solicitor. Laugh, send them a non molestation order, block them everywhere, and tell them to fuck off forever.

All I can offer is the cold truth. You must be happy to expose every part of your and DPs life to any investigation. I'm just pleased that your ex is trying their best, and that's all you can ask for. Get your evidence together, but don't start off on the attack. Start off refuting where you can. Try to get proof of stalking. I mean evidence level proof. It may be worth your dp keeping a camera with him. Right down each time they are seen or heard. Like you say take it seriously. I've been through similar recently and it's not nice to he accused falsely.

cafcass would be involved in any case that goes to family court. It is unlikely they will get access when their own son is saying no.
dont panic OP. Even in cases with ss involved, they would be highly unlikely to get custody or supervision without parents consent .

I think I remember your earlier thread. Didn't they have a daughter and grand-daughter living with them who they weren't bothered about? It was all about your daughter, insisting on coming round to bath her every night?

I get your point but that was directed at your ex ( and presumably due to his behaviour)? I'm not making excuses but people behave in negative ways under stress and in hostile situations.
If ILs have been part of your child's life ( and it seems they were very involved initially), I believe they have a continued right to be . It seems that they love and care for her,

A few points in no particular order

• They are not the parents and will need to get permission from the court to proceed, which is not automatically given
• Cafcass are always involved with Child Arrangements Orders applications and this is no reflection on the OP or her ex
• You can ask the court to order alcohol (PETH) testing for the grandmother if she is pursuing the application, this may well concentrate her mind a little bit. If this happens, make sure that the court begins it from right now to give an indication of her current alcohol use rather than an indication of whether she is able to abstain through pure spite for three months
• A CAO can only be made if it is a better option than making no order. They will have to show using the "welfare checklist" from section 1 of the Children Act 1989 that it is in the child's best welfare interests for their application to succeed.

Yes, that was it! I was so naive back then and it’s come to bite me

They can only receive a caution if they admit the offence. It doesn’t seem like they will be doing that. There has to be evidence for an arrest to take place so try to get some proof lined up if possible.

There are some incredibly unpleasant goady fuckers on this thread OP. Ignore them.

I wonder what is missing in their lives that makes them be such twats. Pathetic.

Keep reporting any stalking or other unacceptable behaviour. Document EVERYTHING. From what you have said your inlaws will hoist themselves from their own petard.

My in laws took me to court over my little one.

Got 6 hours a month.

Also very abusive background, but they weren't involved much before hand, hope this helps. Good luck x

Oh stop it. My DM was a different person once she actively got help and therapy. It is sometimes possible that people can change their lives.

Have the application been granted? As grandparents, they do not have PR, and so there will be a hearing where the court decides of they are going to give permission (leave) for the application to proceed, or not.

Read and understand s.10.9 of the Children Act 1989 - this is your friend.

Grandparents do not have a legal right to see their grandchildren. This is why even if they go to court, they need permission.