Wrongfully being accused by brother and wife

[ForJoyousDog]

I don't know what to do! My brother has POA for finances for my mother, which he has actioned and now deals with her banking. He and his wife are doing an audit of mum's spending since dad died in 2019. Mum became a recluse after his death, the mobility car had to be returned. I live 750 miles from mum, my brother 12 miles but to help mum I did her grocery shopping online using her debit card. This turned into birthday cards, gifts, hobby materials etc but everything with her authority to use her account and card. My brother and his wife have said that now my brother "has unrestricted access to mum's account and are working closely with the bank as there are suspicious payments that have come out of her account". I have done nothing wrong, certainly not used my mothers bank account as my own but the accusation has been going on since January, the messages I get are hateful, they are relishing trying to destroy me, my husband won't support me because he told me this would happen and he is angry as to how this makes him look. My mother has told my brother that I had authority to do any shopping etc using her card, but it is still going on. I'm not eating, sleeping and my relationship is suffering. What can I do to make this stop does anyone have any ideas please?

Telling you he is working closely with the bank and has unrestricted access is to frighten you. Your mum would have to make a complaint about a payment and even then it would be very unlikely in my opinion that the bank would be interested as it was mums card details that were used so she must have given out these details and she didnt complain at the time. Talk to your mother

That’s not correct, he has poa. Did you miss this? And the mum is happy for him to have poa.

So sorry you're going through this, your brother is a bully and a dick, my brother is very similar and has made lots of allegations about me. The silver lining for me is that he went so far i blockec him on everthing and haven't seen him in years, my life is so much better.

The statement fron your mum that she approved the spending is very positive - would she try to cancel the POA if she's competent to make her own decisions?

And can you write to your brother and SIL to say that the allegations are false and if they continue to contact you that you will report them to the police for harassment.

Finally, your husband needs to be supportive, of course you had to support your mum, and your brother wasn't stepping in. You sound very kind, sorry your brother is so awful.

That’s not correct, he has poa. Did you miss this? And the mum is happy for him to have poa.

And his mum still has capacity.

Unless he thinks that she is being taken advantage of he has no more right to be spending his mum's money than his mum!

This really isn’t right at all and I would be really worried about financial abuse. Does your mum have capacity? Your mum really should get legal advice. As far as I understand POAs can be set up in advance of losing capacity but are only valid once a person has lost capacity to make their own financial decisions. If she didn’t agree to it then and has capacity now then it isn’t valid, and she should have every right and ability to redact it. But I don’t work in law so would advise your mum to get advice. Just because you can’t physically shop on your own or make internet purchases doesn’t mean you lack financial capacity. To be honest if she is capable of asking people to spend her money and know what your brother is doing then she may very well have capacity to make her own financial decisions. Might be worth her calling Age Concern for advice.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/

As far as I understand POAs can be set up in advance of losing capacity but are only valid once a person has lost capacity to make their own financial decisions

🙄🙄🙄

FFS

I feel like there needs to be an OP to actually educate people about LPAs.

Again, unlike the Health and Welfare LPA, a financial LPA can be used at any point with the donor's permission. IT DOES NOT REQUIRE THE DONOR TO HAVE LOST CAPACITY.
I'm a physically and cognitively well (touch wood) adult who has done the sensible thing and appointed attorneys well before I'm likely to need them.

If I lost my voice tomorrow, I could ask my daughter to phone the bank for me using the LPA as authority. If I sprained my ankle, she could take my card and do my shopping for me. Because I've given her permission to use the LPA.

I know. It's like hitting our heads against a brick wall.

Your brother is being a vindictive bully. Tell him to mind his own business, you don't answer to him.

My brother was unkind after my dad died, made a few snide remarks about things and on a particular matter commented "Don't you think you should have told me about this?" My response was "No, it was his money and none of your business!"

Please don't let him bully you. As long as you keep answering to him he'll keep demanding it. Tell him to sod off.

I know @saraclara - it’s painful to watch. Too many posters just not rtft.

Your brother is being a vindictive bully

No he’s not - he’s looking into suspicious transactions on his mum’s account and has asked the OP for clarification on what’s she’s spent (including gifts she bought for herself and her husband) and all she has to do is to show receipts and for his mum to confirm that’s what was spent. If there’s anything not accounted for then it needs to be reported. Given what the OP shared on the thread I’m not surprised he’s being cautious.

SIL is after the money, plain and simple. I think you need to contact AGE to ask for their advice and get you and your mum lawyered up. Yours to protect you and hers to help her the POA removed from the brother as it was done under duress. She needs an independent advocate who will speak her wishes on her behalf.

Your brother is a low down piece of shit who will almost certainly get her to try and get her to change her will.

Yes, it is the case that when someone (the principal) grants another (the agent) POA for finances, the agent receives the authority to manage the principal's financial affairs.

However, if the principal retains mental capacity, they can continue to make their own financial decisions and authorise others to handle their funds, even with an active POA.

In the OP's case, her mum has allowed her to manage specific financial transactions. As long as she has capacity, this is fine.

OP, given your brother's previous attempts to question your mum's capacity were proven unfounded, I'd be concerned that his motivations might not align with your mum's best interests. What he's doing not only poses a risk to her financial autonomy but may also significantly affect her psychological health and well-being. I can only imagine your mum's distress in this situation.

To protect yourself and your mum, I'd recommend that you consult a solicitor to review the terms of the Power of Attorney to ensure clarity and verify that your brother is acting within his legal boundaries as the POA. I think this is crucial to safeguard against any potential misuse of power that could further impact your mum, especially.

I'm sorry you're both in this position; it sounds utterly horrid.

I’ve been trying to say this all through the thread but other people ‘know better’.

Did you read it all?

Yes, he's being a vindictive bully!

She's explained the transactions, her mother still has a voice and has spoken up too, yet he's still going on at her.

He's a bully, encouraged by his wife it would seem.

It does sound as if Op's brother might be trying to scare her off so that she doesn't have anything to do with her mum's finances at all.

If someone suspects financial abuse using a poa (iyswim) can they report to the office of the public guardian for things to be looked into?

Yes I did - did you? And the other thread linked to?

Yes they can - but the OP’s brother sounds like he’s going down the non-formal route first to see if he can establish if there’s anything that can’t be accounted for before he does that given he’s seen what looks like suspicious activity. Seems like a sensible approach, esp as the OP will very easily be able to explain all the expenditure (and hopefully better than she’s done on here)

Yes, in England, if someone suspects an agent is committing financial abuse under a power of attorney (POA), it should be reported to the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG).

The OPG is responsible for overseeing the activities of individuals appointed under a lasting or enduring power of attorney, and it has the authority to investigate concerns or complaints about how an attorney is acting.

Yes I did. She's answered his questions. Her own mother has confirmed that she has given permission for things to be bought on her behalf. And it's not enough? He's a bully. I'd question his motives at this stage.

What other thread are you referring to?

No she hasn’t- she’s been very vague and hasn’t given him full details of what she’s used her mum’s account for. Now that her mum has said she’s approved them it’s simply a case of matching them up to what he’s seen on the account that looks suspicious - anything that doesn’t match up should be reported as a potential scam.

I thought you said you’d read the thread?

Can you raise an adult safeguarding via social services - he’s trying to exclude you isn’t he -

Do you think you’re not the only person who has a card to your mum’s account and someone else is using it too?

I have. I think you're overlooking certain points in order to be 'right'. Did you miss the part about how vile he's being to her?

She has explained, her mother has explained, yet he is still going on. Assuming she is otherwise of good character, her word should be enough. I'm sure she didn't expect a Spanish inquisition for simply carrying out a duty on behalf of her own mother.

We're not going to agree, clearly, best you move along and find someone else to make your point to.

Funny how SIL wasnt interested in helping practically but pushed the POA for finances.

I was always under the impression that a POA is a "just in case I cant" safety net, not someone handing over all their finances to someone else when they still have capacity, so why do they have access to her statements if she is still capable and why are they going through them like this?

This STINKS.......