Wrongfully being accused by brother and wife

[ForJoyousDog]

I don't know what to do! My brother has POA for finances for my mother, which he has actioned and now deals with her banking. He and his wife are doing an audit of mum's spending since dad died in 2019. Mum became a recluse after his death, the mobility car had to be returned. I live 750 miles from mum, my brother 12 miles but to help mum I did her grocery shopping online using her debit card. This turned into birthday cards, gifts, hobby materials etc but everything with her authority to use her account and card. My brother and his wife have said that now my brother "has unrestricted access to mum's account and are working closely with the bank as there are suspicious payments that have come out of her account". I have done nothing wrong, certainly not used my mothers bank account as my own but the accusation has been going on since January, the messages I get are hateful, they are relishing trying to destroy me, my husband won't support me because he told me this would happen and he is angry as to how this makes him look. My mother has told my brother that I had authority to do any shopping etc using her card, but it is still going on. I'm not eating, sleeping and my relationship is suffering. What can I do to make this stop does anyone have any ideas please?

If your mum still has capacity then he's really going to be spinning his wheels here, but, you should have been keeping records of purchases anyway, especially after your DH warned you of what could happen.

I would go back through all the purchases and put together a report of everything you have ever bought for her since then, what it was and where it was delivered to. If you can, get your mum to sign off on it, confirming in writing that she has asked you to buy all those things, don't miss anything out as if he's doing an audit he will find it.

If you can't or won't do that then you're on shaky moral territory anyway.

He's not wrong to question the use of your mums debit card, as to be honest, so much financial abuse happens this way, the first thing I thought of when I read this thread was the thread where the daughter who knows that her brother has been financially abusing their mum terribly for years but the mum won't do anything about it.

Your brother and SIL are out of line to be nasty or doing anything other then keeping it strictly professional though, just remain professional throughout your interactions.

My brother and his wife have said that now my brother "has unrestricted access to mum's account and are working closely with the bank as there are suspicious payments that have come out of her account".

So your brother isn’t questioning every payment made or that you were indeed using her card for genuine reasons, he is questioning “suspicious payments” only. No one seems to be questioning the weekly Tesco shop or whatever.

Mum has capacity but is allowing it. She has told him she knows the purchases made on her behalf and gave me authority to pay online on her behalf

So your mum has confirmed which payments were made by you on her behalf so presumably there ARE payments* she doesn’t recognise which is why she is allowing it *& why they have been marked as “suspicious”.

Your brother is saying he’s working with the bank so one of the first questions the bank will ask is if anyone else had access to her card which is why you are now being questioned, it’s pretty standard.

The problem seems to be that your mum is saying she has no knowledge of certain payments & since you haven’t kept proper records, your brother is duty bound to investigate it.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
You win!🤝

It’s boring but relatively easy to fix OP.

You need a backdated spreadsheet 2018-2024 listing all the purchases made on her behalf using her cards in Amazon/supermarket/Moonpig accounts.

Does mum know what's going on, has she seen her bank statements and discussed these so called suspicious transactions, is she able to speak to the bank herself. Have the bank seen certified p.o.a. . If you know who her bank are then can you ask them to contact mum or help her sort this out.

OP said her mum has capacity & she has already confirmed which payments she authorised OP to make on her behalf hence why her brother isn’t questioning all payments but rather “suspicious payments”; presumably they’ve been marked as suspicious because their mum is denying any knowledge of them.

OP has said her mum is allowing it so there must be a reason for that.

Is it possible that these suspicious transactions actually have nothing to to with the OP at all, but are online fraud by some unidentified online fraudster. It does happen as we all know and if no-one has been checking the mother's bank statements since goodness knows when it wouldn't have been picked up before. We (DH and I - mostly DH) always check through all account statements as we get them and if we noticed anything we didn't recognise would query it straight away. DB is presumably assuming it may be OP because he knows she has the bank details but it doesn't mean that some scammer may not have got hold of them too.

You can prove what you bought & why.

Your mum will back you up.

Why would your payments be the "suspicious" ones?

If your brother thinks that you overspend on gifts/cards then he needs to take over!

Of course if you mum still has capacity it's up t her to set a limit for such things.

Which presumably she did & you stuck to?

If your mum has capacity, she needs to use it. This will carry on unless she does.

Cover your back and make sure you have a proper list and receipts, which should be easy if it has all been internet.

You can tell her what has been happening and why you can no longer do what she asks, but I doubt she will change anything, families being what they are.

My honest advice on this situation is that you hand over all things that involve spending your Mum's money, everything, including organising buying gifts etc. to your brother and his wife.
You've been withholding just how much you've been doing for your mum from them so it's time to hand over that baton and they can do the ordering of gifts etc. for your mum.

It's the only way that they will see that you were doing things that your mother asked you to do - because she is going to have to ask them to do them now.

That's my advice.

I have POA for my dad- financial and health. He is sound minded and healthy. He has given consent for me to manage his affairs even though there are no health issues which prevent him from making decisions. It might be worth checking on the POA what the restrictions are. Is your brother able to make decisions whilst your mum is well or only when she is too unwell?

@Theweepywillow

Thanks for the aggressive post. If you’d read it properly then you’d understand that I was referring to the manner in which the POA was signed. OP said in a pervious post that her mum has been clear that she didn’t know what she was signing and was unaware of the ramifications. POA has to be sought with full permission and understanding from the donor. If OPs mum did not fully understand the process or was not aware what she was signing then there is an issue with the POA.

I would raise a concern with the Office of the Public Guardian about the process by which this POA was established and how the guardian is using their power.

OP- here is the link

https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-deputy-guardian

From now on you need to make sure that you are always getting at least verbal permission for spending, if not written via text. Keep those as a folder together. This is what I do for my dad as his financial POA.

Can you ask your brother for the list of bank transactions he's querying so you can provide explanations for each item as far as possible? Presumably you can find records of Tesco and other deliveries and where they were delivered to and tally some purchases to family birthdays etc.

You saved me typing it, and yes this is the obvious thing to do

I agree with PPs that buying stuff for other people apart from mum was a risk, but as long as most of it tallies there should be no problem, and if the rest of the family really are just trying to make trouble this should stop it

The op can easily prove no suspicious circumstances. It’s all online. As such she has the full history she can forward to match any transactions, and they can see delivery addresses

@ForJoyousDog - countless posters have asked you to do just this, which seems simple enough. Why have you not done this?

I have POA for my Dad, and use his card to buy him things online that he asks for. But I did this long before I actually had POA, because quite frankly, he would need stuff and he can't do on-line himself. He just can't get to grips with it. My Dad asked me to buy him aftershave yesterday. I'll order it on Amazon today. And no, I don't update a spreadsheet, because I'm his daughter doing him a favour!

Op, with hindsight (which is always 20/20) you could have listed all the transactions, but this is real life and family, and you would have never dreamed you'd be accused of anything.

Your brother sounds like a dick!

I would tell him that he's being rude and ridiculous, that all transactions were requested by your Mum, and you were simply buying things on her behalf as she wasn't capable, and if he sends over the statements you will go through them and write next to each transaction what it was for. I would then tell him, that from now on he can do all the present buying for the grandkids etc, and he can do her weekly food shop. I'm sure he will soon realise how time consuming that actually is!

This happened to me. My family were horrible and so hurtful. Some of there comments were so judgemental and hurtful I am so glad to say I have cut all contact with them.

I will day if you have receipts then get them together so they can see what it was for.

I'm sorry your husband isn't being very supportive. I hated the fact the fact I knew I had brought it with his blessing but me trying to prove that was harder.

All you can is give them the evidence of what you have brought

I think buying things for the person and having them sent to their address is absolutely fine, but when you're buying things for other people (including yourself and your spouse), basically anything where the delivery address is not the same as the person paying, then it would make sense to keep records of what you're buying and where it is going.

I can't say for definite obviously but OPs reaction to all this seems a bit too extreme to me, it's not nice to be accused of taking money, but if she's genuinely done nothing wrong and it's all been at her mums request then there shouldn't be a problem and it certainly shouldn't have dragged on since January.

The fact that she isn't eating or sleeping and her husband isn't supportive as he didn't agree with whatever she was doing in the first place seems a bit too much of an odd response to something that is all above board and easily provable IMO, it seems to me like there may be more to this story.

I would send your brother one message which says

“I am finding the calls and texts from you and sil very stressful. Please stop sending these.

To the best of my knowledge there are no fraudulent transactions on mums account but if you think that there are fraudulent transactions of course you should call the bank.

Between x date and y date I supported mum with some online shopping tasks which she requested that I support with. I think that she will be able to check transactions for you and confirm if they are things that she has chosen or not. If there are any which you are unsure about please feel free to send me one email with a complete list and I will check them for you.

best wishes

OP, you need to get a printed piece of paper with all the items listed on it and go to your DM's physically and get her to sign on a piece of paper in front of two witnesses and you, a bit like a will, to legalise it and show she wasn't coerced to sign it by you and to approve the funds she transferred to you.

A verbal defence here is not enough and if she passes away it will be your DB vs you.

The people who witness can't be relatives. I would also record the signing on your phone for evidence and ask her to make a recording on camera as well declaring she is fit and sound mind and she asked you to make those payments on her behalf.

As for POA I think this should be handled jointly between you and your DB.

It is now possible that he may use her account fraudulently as if she loses her mental ability.

I would be asking my DM to cancel the POA or amend the current one to include you so you have an equal say in what happens.

Your DB is appalling and he needs putting in his place. I'm sorry your DH is not supporting you but perhaps he recognised your DB for the snake that he is.

I would also consider going to Citizens Advice Bureau to ask for any legal help you can get to deal with this, I'm sure they've seen it before.

I don't know if she has any assets but I would also be very worried about this and what will she has written and what manipulation your DB is using there.

If your mother was spending recklessly on lavish gifts surely you had some responsibility. How much money are we talking about. Sounds like your brother thinks she has been taken advantage of.

Don't think there was any use of the language 'reckless'.

Where has that invention arisen from? Your imagination?