Wrongfully being accused by brother and wife

[ForJoyousDog]

I don't know what to do! My brother has POA for finances for my mother, which he has actioned and now deals with her banking. He and his wife are doing an audit of mum's spending since dad died in 2019. Mum became a recluse after his death, the mobility car had to be returned. I live 750 miles from mum, my brother 12 miles but to help mum I did her grocery shopping online using her debit card. This turned into birthday cards, gifts, hobby materials etc but everything with her authority to use her account and card. My brother and his wife have said that now my brother "has unrestricted access to mum's account and are working closely with the bank as there are suspicious payments that have come out of her account". I have done nothing wrong, certainly not used my mothers bank account as my own but the accusation has been going on since January, the messages I get are hateful, they are relishing trying to destroy me, my husband won't support me because he told me this would happen and he is angry as to how this makes him look. My mother has told my brother that I had authority to do any shopping etc using her card, but it is still going on. I'm not eating, sleeping and my relationship is suffering. What can I do to make this stop does anyone have any ideas please?

My dad's carer took thousands out of his bank account. There was apparently no case to answer and she got away with it because he had given her permission to use his card to get his shopping. So I wonder why OP's brother thinks OP can be prosecuted? Is it that he can prove his mum did not have capacity when she asked OP to make the purchases?

why did SIL take your Mum to get POA if they are not close? I would call a family meeting to straighten it out. If it is all online orders then you can fairly easily gather the receipts and tell them what they are all for. They have had POA since January so not throughout the period you have been helping your Mum. I would question if they should have POA? Are they trying to cause problems as you are an executor and not them?

Of mum didn't have capacity to ask op toymaker purchases then she didn't have capacity to sign a poa either

There are so many unanswered questions on this thread and really no need for all the angst from the OP. The DBro may have seen an escalation in the spend on the OP's mum's card over the last few years in which case he's quite right to ask for clarification, or he may be being completely unreasonable - but the OP can sort this so easily without the 'they are out to destroy me' type comments. They can only do that if there's been a massive misuse of funds - if it's just a Moonpig card, an M&S card and some groceries the OP will be able to show that so easily. Given her DH warned her about the way she was operating I suspect it's been a bit more than that though.

I would block his number and ignore. You have set out already why and what. Your mother has validated the situation. He's enjoying tormenting you by the sounds of things.

I'm a bit confused, when was the financial poa set up and registered, was it in 2019. Has it only been used since January this year, if so why has it now been applied, does mum no longer have capacity or has asked b to take over her finances. If mum has capacity she can ask to see all her bank statements going back as far as she wants and go through them with you both.

If your mum has capacity and has no issues with how the money was spent on her behalf then there is no cause for concern. She gave you permission for her finances to be used in this way and to her benefit (shopping , small first to grandchildren). It's not great practice but no crime etc has been committed as this was done with her knowledge and consent.

However your brother needs to step into this role now given he has POA. Given his attitude towards i would question what his attentions are here and whether he is really working to your mums best interests.

You need to get legal advice on this. Your brother should not be snooping through your mother's private affairs while she has capacity, as the PoA has no authority. I would strongly suggest getting your mother separate legal advice. I think she can rescind the current PoA and, if she wants, put in place another one naming you.

My exh fleeced his dm of 40k. Nobody gave a shit when bil caused hell... You however have acted with good intentions.. And done nothing wrong. Block them both op.

Your brother should not be snooping through your mother's private affairs while she has capacity, as the PoA has no authority

That's not true - if he suspects there is some sort of abuse of his mum's finances he can look into them and highlight to the bank and/or police, or if she agrees to him acting for her whilst she has capacity.

As I said previously, there are so many unanswered questions here that none of us can give the OP any advice (other than to start recording each purchase and her mum's agreement for each)

After my dad died I used to do my mum's grocery shopping online for her using her card details which she asked me to do. She'd phone me with a shopping list. She wasn't computer literate and never had a mobile phone let alone a PC.

I lived the furthest away from mum out of my siblings so felt it was my contribution to helping her. My DSis and DB did more actual physical help, like doctor's appointments and visited her more often. I only visited every 3 weeks or so. It's just what families do, I thought.

We did get LPA a few years later, all three of us, but didn't have it at the time.

Your brother is being a dick.

To be honest, in your situation, I would tell my brother, that any request from mother to me in the past are none of his business; but, if he has any questions regarding any unusual/ very large transaction, I would be happy to discuss it with him.

@ForJoyousDog we had a problem with MIL when she was alive. my hubby and his bro were joint POA/ she was getting through her savings at the rate of knots!.. she could easily spend 300 a week on rubbish. she had alzheimers/dementia old age memory problems. sil was ordering a delivery of meals for MIL so she was not spending money on food, just rubbish! 50 pounds a week to any donkey sanctuary she could find etc etc etc. she would phone the speaking clock 30 times in the evening. really rubbish.
during a stay in hospital, we redecorated, replaced her carpets and cleared out rubbish! we found 1100 packets of crisps, any flavor you could ask for. 3, yes 3 whole carrier bags full of unwritten, brand new greetings cards for every and any occasion you could possibly think of. 36 boxes of tea bags! We live in a village and I had to go round the shops with those carrier bags of cards and ask each of the shops to please not allow her to purchase any more. she actually had more stock than the three shops put together! I ended up having to collect her weekly pension and divide it into envelopes for every day and i would put the envelope in her letterbox at night for the next day. her cheque book was removed on instruction from bil. I kept a notebook of every penny of her pension and the envelopes till one day she accused me of stealing and I furiously got on the phone to Bil and hubby and told them both I was having nothing more to do with their mother. they could both deal with it themselves. I handed the notebook and what was left of that weeks pension as well as po card to my hubby when he returned from work. he was very glad that i had kept a record of every single penny so no one could accuse me of stealing. I left them to it. she went into a home a few weeks later,

Try some antihistamine.

Or just stop the silly, vague insinuations and post properly,

I would refuse to respond to any texts. Document all the spending and whys and wherefores. If your Mum is still compus mentis get her to initial it all off on a list with an explicit statement that every amount was authorised and she gave persmission for the online shopping account (which will show all deliveries to her, all all gifts. If the gifts were a reasonable amount - dependant on who for and adult vs child etc it doesn't matter if it was for you and your kids if it was for good reason e.g. 50 quid for you and H for chistmas and 50 quid per birthday for fam members and she could afford that then really there is nothing to answer as it was a) with permission b) within reasonable limits. Bank may say otherwise but the police won't on that basis. You can retro authorise it all and its sorted.

I thought the PoA could only be enacted if the person was deemed incompetent or gave permission for the PoA to be used for financial. SO just because they have enacted the PoA doesn't mean that your Mum can't take things back into her own hands of authorise someone else to spend money for her if she still is able to comprehend. Even with advanced alzheimers, in the moment my Mum was aware of decison making and could express interest and preference etc.

I would also be handing all shopping responsibility back to your brother and his wife - they can have the mental load

The whole thing is ridiculous though. The op can easily prove no suspicious circumstances. It’s all online. As such she has the full history she can forward to match any transactions, and they can see delivery addresses.

surely you’d just say, sure, what ones are you concerned about as it’s online all the history exists. Then either send him links or snagits.

all this they are relishing destroying me, my husband won’t support me is so unnecessary, you e the evidence you didn’t Rob your mother, so just give them it, the answer to making it stop is in your own hands. Literally.

POA doesn't come into force until your mother loses capacity, so he's overstepping.
Your mother has capacity and wanted you to shop for her. None of his business.
Is he using this as a stick to beat your mother? Maybe she needs to remove his POA.

Poa on Finances can be immediate without incapacity but with permission

This isn't necessarily true

You can start making decisions while the donor still has mental capacity if both:

• the lasting power of attorney (LPA) says you can
• the donor gives you permission

You need to contact the Office of the Public Guardian and contest the POA. It is not legal to obtain POA by stealth and your brother and SIL could find themselves in a lot of trouble.

Even if you have POA then you need to show that you have the donors consent for financial transactions if they still have capacity. Your brother cannot is his POA to force your mum into anything.

I would also have yourself added and you SIL removed from the POA. This is nothing to do with her.

I would ignore them. You have done nothing wrong. They're clearly jealous your mum has bought you things. Don't worry about it. From now on keep a list of all gifts, in case they query it.

This, totally. I would be hugely suspicious of your brother and what the future may hold. I would make it a priority to get this sorted out and get POA for yourself for mum. He is overstepping and ruining your relationship with him.

So what was purchased from "Amazon"???

I feel for you OP but TBH, and I may be wrong, you should not have done what you did and your bro/SiL are correct - so step back and accept your mistakes/misjudgement IMO

But it’s not done by stealth, this is going off at a tangent due to erroneous posts like yours. People are reading it and thinking you’re posting accurately when you are not.

the op has said very clearly her mother has capacity but she is allowing her son to have poa, this means it’s what she wants, she has given permission, as such nothing is wrong here.

and capacity has shades of grey, she can have rhe capacity to know enough to give permission but not to deal with her finances.