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Legal matters

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Intestate question

254 replies

WingingItSince1973 · 07/05/2024 22:07

My dad died on Sunday. We didn't have a close relationship. I did try and keep up one with him but he was a stubborn man and I don't think really like me as we are very different people. My mum was a victim of dv and left him when I was a toddler (am 50 now). I had close relationship with aunties and grandparents on his side of family so saw him sporadically during my teens but nothing much during my adulthood. Anyway I was called to the hospital by my aunty and was with him when he died. He wasn't awake and I'm not sure if he knew I was there. So here's the thing. Aunty messaged me to ask if his name is on my birth certificate. It is and I sent her a screenshot. Now he didn't have a will and I'm and have been for the last 10 years his next of kin. No more children. He outlived his partner and they weren't married. There seems to be no legal papers anywhere to suggest anyone is next of kin. I'm being told now that a verbal agreement was my aunty and another uncle to have any money left over and treat myself and 3 others whatever that means. My aunty had a very close relationship with him along with my remaining two uncles. My question is would I be contacted regarding his 'estate'? He didn't own property and I have no idea of his finances. They are emptying his council house this week and have turned down my offers of help. There's also a chance now of compensation as he died with a condition bought about by his working environment and we are waiting for post mortem. My aunty wants to take over everything. Morally and legally what should I do? I'm not one for confrontation and it would be easier to give my aunty legal powers but then part of me thinks my dad owes me for never ever providing anything for me. I hate this though as I'm not at all materialistic but if there's a good amount of money it would really help my situation as I don't work due to illness and my poor dh shoulders the burden of earning a living and we live week to week. Sorry it's long. Hope someone can help advise what I should do xx

OP posts:
AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen · 11/05/2024 19:58

The coroner won’t take any notice of your aunt if you confirm your relationship to your dad. Send her a copy/ image of your birth certificate.
The coroner has nothing to do with inheritance.

Who ever goes on the death certificate is whoever registers the death at the registry office.
It has no impact on inheritance and the bank are being ridiculous in saying whoever is on the death certificate can deal with the account! That is irrelevant and I would want a proper meeting with someone at the bank that deals with probate……..they are talking crap.

AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen · 11/05/2024 19:59

AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen · 11/05/2024 19:58

The coroner won’t take any notice of your aunt if you confirm your relationship to your dad. Send her a copy/ image of your birth certificate.
The coroner has nothing to do with inheritance.

Who ever goes on the death certificate is whoever registers the death at the registry office.
It has no impact on inheritance and the bank are being ridiculous in saying whoever is on the death certificate can deal with the account! That is irrelevant and I would want a proper meeting with someone at the bank that deals with probate……..they are talking crap.

They may try to contest you inheriting
So I would arrange the funeral from here.
They could say you didn’t bother and it could go against you if things start getting to court .

Witchgreen6 · 11/05/2024 20:38

@AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen who would take it to court and what would be the accusation?
The aunty will get nowhere saying that a verbal wish overrides intestacy rules.

AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen · 11/05/2024 21:32

Witchgreen6 · 11/05/2024 20:38

@AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen who would take it to court and what would be the accusation?
The aunty will get nowhere saying that a verbal wish overrides intestacy rules.

Anyone who is happy to pay can contest a will, or inheritance.
So aunty i suppose

Anameisaname · 11/05/2024 21:39

Did you speak to the specialist department at the Bank? It could be that they don't know what they are talking about. But it seems very odd indeed that anyone can wander into a bank and say someone has died and then the bank will soley deal with that person from then on

WingingItSince1973 · 11/05/2024 21:56

Yes I spoke to the bereavement dept at the bank. Xx

OP posts:
PamPamPamPam · 11/05/2024 21:57

Anameisaname · 11/05/2024 21:39

Did you speak to the specialist department at the Bank? It could be that they don't know what they are talking about. But it seems very odd indeed that anyone can wander into a bank and say someone has died and then the bank will soley deal with that person from then on

This is my thinking as well, I can imagine the chaos that could cause with people being able to just freeze others' bank accounts for nefarious reasons.

LittleMissSleepyUK · 12/05/2024 05:48

All this emotional blackmail towards you is just awful. It all just sounds so calculated by your aunt

MaggieFS · 12/05/2024 12:18

Anameisaname · 11/05/2024 21:39

Did you speak to the specialist department at the Bank? It could be that they don't know what they are talking about. But it seems very odd indeed that anyone can wander into a bank and say someone has died and then the bank will soley deal with that person from then on

I agree with this, I would call the bereavement department back and if they still give you the same info again, ask them how you escalate it and raise a complaint.

WingingItSince1973 · 12/05/2024 15:16

I spoke to a lady in the bereavement dept. I'll phone again tomorrow thank you xx

OP posts:
PinotPony · 12/05/2024 15:22

WingingItSince1973 · 11/05/2024 18:13

I spoke to the bank today. As it was my aunty who informed them of his death they will only speak to her unless she phones them and gives them permissions to speak to me. But when the death certificate has been issued, whoever is named on that (as in next of kin) then the bank will only deal with them. Now I know why my aunty was so keen for her to keep liaising with coroner. I've been reminded today by that side of the family how I've devastated my aunty taking that side of things from her. Anyway an interim death cert doesn't name anyone so if it goes to inquiry I don't know how long after that the real death certificate will take. I need to ask the coroner again on Monday. I will also make sure the coroner confirms I'm her first port of call. The bank said if a dispute is raised any funds in his account will be frozen until it's sorted out. I'm worried my aunty can convince the coroner it was my dad's wishes for her to be on his death certificate. Is that possible?

My cousins had asked if my aunty can still organise his funeral. The direct cremation, no service. Apparently it will crush her if I don't and he wanted to be with his deceased partners ashes which I have no issue with whatsoever as I know he loved her.

Regarding the house I've been told that my aunty will clean it as she knows my dad would be absolutely devastated for anyone to see it in the state it's in. I know this would be true. He was very proud. But he couldn't look after the house properly and his dogs were allowed anywhere. It wasn't in the best state when I last was there so can imagine being in his own the last few years and just drinking and smoking himself to oblivion it's not nice so I do think she's telling the truth.

The bank did say all his direct debits and standing orders would have been cancelled but I still don't know the utilities despite me constantly asking. They are being very awkward. I don't know how I can force them. Anyway thanks for keeping replying. It's not the most exciting of topics but I do appreciate it xx

OP, I think you're confused about what the various documents mean and what you need to prioritise.

There is no "next of kin" named on the death certificate, whether interim or final. It just names the informant... your aunt as she registered the death. The death certificate gives you no legal standing.

Please don't use the phrase "next of kin" when dealing with organisations or your aunt... it has no legal meaning. Refer to yourself as the Administrator of your father's estate.

The Coroner's role is merely to determine the cause of death. They won't get involved in anything to do with the estate or probate. If there's an inquest you'll be invited to attend as you are an Interested Person.

As your dad died without a Will, the intestacy rules apply. Look them up. In the absence of a surviving spouse or civil partner, the estate passes to any surviving children i.e. you and any other children your dad fathered.

You absolutely need to apply for probate (a Grant of Letters of Administration) as soon as possible. That is the document which gives you the legal authority to take ownership of his assets, bank accounts, etc. You need to get this document before your aunt does.

You only need to estimate the value of the estate to apply for probate . If your dad's estate is likely to be under £325,000, there will be no inheritance tax to pay and the process of applying for a grant will be quite simple. You can do it online.

Finally, your aunt could potentially make a claim against the estate but will only succeed if she can show that she has a financial dependency upon your dad, that he was giving her money or supporting her in some way. Nevertheless her claim could tie you both up in legal costs so, if this happens, you might want to negotiate a sum to pay her off.

PinotPony · 12/05/2024 15:35

Witchgreen6 · 11/05/2024 20:38

@AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen who would take it to court and what would be the accusation?
The aunty will get nowhere saying that a verbal wish overrides intestacy rules.

The Courts have the power to interfere with a Will or the intestacy rules, under the Inheritance (Provisions for Family and Dependents) Act 1975, if there is a failure by the deceased to make provision for certain people.

Usually claims are made by children or (former) spouses but there have been cases where more remote people have succeeded, for example god children who received regular gifts from the deceased and therefore proved a "dependency".

WingingItSince1973 · 12/05/2024 16:10

@PinotPony Thank you so much for all that info. I was getting so confused after speaking to the bank. Before that call I was almost sorted in my head and what I had to do. I do need to apply for administration. I am confused today and tempted to just hand all over to my aunt. So death hasn't been registered. We can't do that until coroner releases a death certificate. That's where I wanted to check with the coroner that it's me she will let know when I can collect that. Bank said only my aunt can talk to them as she informed them he had died. But they said only when the death certificate is available and the named person or whatever that means can they then liaise with that person. Until then it's still my aunty unless she gives them permission to talk to me. I only use next of kin as I'm his only daughter. I have never done this before so apologise for wrong wording. I have sought legal advice which was helpful. I had everything written down and was going methodically through the list. Then the bank happened. I needed to know if his direct debits had stopped for his utilities and they have but I also hoped they would tell me the utility companies so I could phone them myself. I need the meter readings etc so dad isn't charged for anything after the house is handed over. I've asked aunty for this info and she for some reason won't tell me. So I'll apply for administration. Thank you so much for your valuable information and anyone else that's helped me. To be honest I wish he had made a will. Whether he named anyone else as beneficiary it would have been easier. Or I could sign it all over to my aunty and be done with it. X

OP posts:
WingingItSince1973 · 12/05/2024 16:21

Ok just looked at the forms to apply for administrator and I can't estimate dads estate as I have no idea. No access to bank accounts. I couldn't even guess. It won't be above the inheritance tax threshold, I would be very surprised if it was. Unless the bank gives me information I'm stuck. They said they need my name on the will to give me access to his account. As in his amounts etc. x

OP posts:
WingingItSince1973 · 12/05/2024 16:22

The coroner did say she will give me a one time code to access dad's employment history and some other stuff I've written down.

OP posts:
WingingItSince1973 · 12/05/2024 16:24

Sorry the tell it once service is to alert government depts of dads death x

OP posts:
WingingItSince1973 · 12/05/2024 16:28

Ok ignore previous posts. I've just been panicking and need to calm down and not trying to do everything at once. I guess I'm just stressing about my aunty and all her messages to me. Yes I've confused myself. I need to just follow the right procedures and stop rushing everything x

OP posts:
Marghogeth · 12/05/2024 16:37

OP, my friend did none of that. The solicitor did everything. Calm yourself 🙂

tridento · 12/05/2024 17:26

Op are you saying that the bank said they will only speak with your aunt or you if your aunt gives permission because she was the one to call them about his death? So the bank will only speak with any old random person if they call first to tell the bank someone has died? That can't possibly be right.

AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen · 12/05/2024 17:52

tridento · 12/05/2024 17:26

Op are you saying that the bank said they will only speak with your aunt or you if your aunt gives permission because she was the one to call them about his death? So the bank will only speak with any old random person if they call first to tell the bank someone has died? That can't possibly be right.

Agree.
OP needs to put that in an email and question their procedure with a complaint.
That is not how banks should be working.

Anameisaname · 12/05/2024 17:59

WingingItSince1973 · 12/05/2024 16:21

Ok just looked at the forms to apply for administrator and I can't estimate dads estate as I have no idea. No access to bank accounts. I couldn't even guess. It won't be above the inheritance tax threshold, I would be very surprised if it was. Unless the bank gives me information I'm stuck. They said they need my name on the will to give me access to his account. As in his amounts etc. x

Just guess it. It doesn't matter if you get it wrong as you can update afterwards.

KarenSmithsWeatherBoobs · 12/05/2024 18:01

OP, let your solicitor deal with everything.

I have a background knowledge of probate law - enough to help DH and BIL avoid he cost of legal help when their dad died (I did the estate accounts and helped them work out what expenses there were and what was distributed after that - but I wouldn't even attempt to touch an intestate estate without a solicitor, especially one where there are already nefarious family members foaming at the mouth to get it all.

In your position, my main concern would be your aunt getting Letters of Administration and then not carrying out her role honestly. Even if this does happen, you have a solicitor now who can deep dive and she'll be in a lot of trouble if she tries any of that crap.

Honestly, leave it to your solicitor. They will be specialised and know what they're doing.

Remember: if your dad wanted them to have anything, he had ample time to put that in writing. He didn't and there's only their (frankly greedy sounding) word for it.

AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen · 12/05/2024 18:05

Do you have you list of actions OP

  • Get death certificate
  • Take death certificate to registrar and register death
  • They will give you a leaflet. If you fill it out and post it it will stop all payments like pension etc.
  • Fill out administration forms as best you can and guess the £ if you have no idea. Accompany the form with an explanation ie you don’t have access to his bank account or ask citizens advice / a solicitor how to fill this part out.
  • Send it off and wait
  • Meanwhile
  • Explain to aunt that they cannot access accounts or visit the bank.
  • Explain the same to the bank by showing them your birth cert and dads death certificate. Put this in writing as a formal complaint if they continue to discuss affairs with your aunt.
  • Try to find utility providers so you can pay off the final bills. You can phone edf for example and just give the address and ask who is the provider for gas and electric. Water will be based on where you live.
  • Ask aunt for personal processions.

See attachment

Intestate question
Intestate question
AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen · 12/05/2024 18:08

Anameisaname · 12/05/2024 17:59

Just guess it. It doesn't matter if you get it wrong as you can update afterwards.

Exactly.
Probate offices know that these questions are nonsense as without probate you can’t access accounts and without accounts you can’t fill out the form for probate.

This is for people who, for example own property. An applicant can easily guess the value of a property and put it as the figure.

They just want a ball park figure to see if they can get inheritance tax.

AGovernmentOfLawsNotOfMen · 12/05/2024 18:11

KarenSmithsWeatherBoobs · 12/05/2024 18:01

OP, let your solicitor deal with everything.

I have a background knowledge of probate law - enough to help DH and BIL avoid he cost of legal help when their dad died (I did the estate accounts and helped them work out what expenses there were and what was distributed after that - but I wouldn't even attempt to touch an intestate estate without a solicitor, especially one where there are already nefarious family members foaming at the mouth to get it all.

In your position, my main concern would be your aunt getting Letters of Administration and then not carrying out her role honestly. Even if this does happen, you have a solicitor now who can deep dive and she'll be in a lot of trouble if she tries any of that crap.

Honestly, leave it to your solicitor. They will be specialised and know what they're doing.

Remember: if your dad wanted them to have anything, he had ample time to put that in writing. He didn't and there's only their (frankly greedy sounding) word for it.

Letters of admin go to a spouse first and then second the child of the deceased.
The aunt would have to lie on a legal document !

As You are required to list all relatives.

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