Intestate question

[WingingItSince1973]

My dad died on Sunday. We didn't have a close relationship. I did try and keep up one with him but he was a stubborn man and I don't think really like me as we are very different people. My mum was a victim of dv and left him when I was a toddler (am 50 now). I had close relationship with aunties and grandparents on his side of family so saw him sporadically during my teens but nothing much during my adulthood. Anyway I was called to the hospital by my aunty and was with him when he died. He wasn't awake and I'm not sure if he knew I was there. So here's the thing. Aunty messaged me to ask if his name is on my birth certificate. It is and I sent her a screenshot. Now he didn't have a will and I'm and have been for the last 10 years his next of kin. No more children. He outlived his partner and they weren't married. There seems to be no legal papers anywhere to suggest anyone is next of kin. I'm being told now that a verbal agreement was my aunty and another uncle to have any money left over and treat myself and 3 others whatever that means. My aunty had a very close relationship with him along with my remaining two uncles. My question is would I be contacted regarding his 'estate'? He didn't own property and I have no idea of his finances. They are emptying his council house this week and have turned down my offers of help. There's also a chance now of compensation as he died with a condition bought about by his working environment and we are waiting for post mortem. My aunty wants to take over everything. Morally and legally what should I do? I'm not one for confrontation and it would be easier to give my aunty legal powers but then part of me thinks my dad owes me for never ever providing anything for me. I hate this though as I'm not at all materialistic but if there's a good amount of money it would really help my situation as I don't work due to illness and my poor dh shoulders the burden of earning a living and we live week to week. Sorry it's long. Hope someone can help advise what I should do xx

Yes you need a solicitor. I had to get one too. I paid a retainer fee of a few hundred pounds and he immediately went to work to ensure my auntie didn’t embezzle everything. It wasn’t much, what my mum had, but there were things that did go missing that I remember from my mum’s that should have gone to myself or one of my siblings.

Don't give her any money!!!! Give all the money to your children and grandchildren.

@WingingItSince1973 I've since had messages from my cousin to say my aunty is distraught as she thinks I'm not going to carry out my dad's wish with regards to giving her and my uncle his money. cannot believe that your cousin actually stated those words!!! what a cheek!!

Your aunty is scamming you, I am beginning to wonder whether she was financially abusing him when she was “caring” for him and the money is already gone and this is all a cover up.

I am sorry OP, this all sounds really stressful. I would kindly encourage you to keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like your father had very little to do with your up bringing and that you're more entitled than anyone, to anything that is due to come your way. You're his child and he had a responsibility towards you and he failed that so don't feel a shred of guilt about putting your foot down. If your aunt and uncle had a shred of decency, they would see that too and be ensuring you are comfortable. I would reach out to everyone to ensure they know you are next of kin and seek as much free professional advice as you can.

Sounds like your family will be disgruntled regardless...let them be. Who messages asking if your father was on your birth certificate like that? I agree that she was absolutely hoping he wasn't.

Good point.

So all day I've been asking for bank details or any paperwork. Apparently my aunty and cousin went into the bank today and showed their own identification and had my dad's account frozen. I'm not sure they can do that? How do you do that without any other form of authentication? Can I discuss this with the coroner or do I need a solicitor which I'm
aiming to sort out tomorrow. Whenever we message we cover the same ground. My cousin says he's had lots of money and my aunty says he doesn't. It's not the amount to me but the principle now. They would have my dad's bank card as they used to take him shopping plus they have emptied his house so they know his bank details. I don't even know why I keep asking for it because what can I do but phone the bank myself and at least have bank numbers etc. I'm getting fobbed off. But surely they can't do anything without me? She said she will sort his cremation out and then send the invoice to the bank and they will pay the undertakers. Surely they need my permission to do that? I'm mentally wrecked today! She also told me I didn't have to legally take over. There was no law making me. So I'm being told I'm now unreasonable and have upset everyone especially my aunty. I have agreed about his funeral as he wasn't religious at all and my aunty seems anxious I will make a song and dance about his funeral as I am religious. I've said I wouldn't do that at all as I knew for certain he wasn't. Ok she's just told me I have no right to send the funeral bill to the bank as it's his bill and not mine to sort out. I do need legal advice. We are just going around the houses. Thank you for all your help and keeping me sane xx

To be fair, I can see your aunt's POV. She's been caring for him and has possibly made sacrifices. You've had no relationship with him for a long time. Within a week of him dying your telling her you're going to seek legal advice.

You're legally entitled to his estate under the intestacy rules. However, there are moral considerations at play too.

I'd be inclined to keep communication with your aunt open. Tell her that you want to administer the estate properly. Pay for the funeral from the estate. Once you have a set of estate accounts showing all his assets, you can then deal with the distribution of the estate,

If it is a sizeable amount, you might want to consider making an offer to pay her and her brother something to reflect the care they gave your father.

If it becomes acrimonious you'll easily lose £20,000 upwards in legal fees. Better to make a sensible offer to show some goodwill.

The coroner will just deal with cause of death and will not get involved in any will issues. Same with hospital legal team.
I'm afraid only a solicitor can help.sorry OP

I have been trying to have a relationship with my dad but I have been fobbed off as he is not contactable only through my aunty. No within 24 hours I was asked about my birth certificate because she wanted to check I was his daughter. It's only today I've spoken to the coroner as I needed to make sure I am his next of kin legally and morally I want to be able to do something as I've been kept at bay all these years now. It's been complicated and I almost given up seeing him. All my aunty has expressed all week since Monday is that her and my uncle are the ones to have his money. How would they be able to do that if there's no will and I'm next of kin. I've been advised to make sure I have my rightful inheritance looked after as also my children will benefit. If he had been so bothered he would have made a will. I've been told he had full mental capacity but was just stubborn and doesn't like being told what to do. I would have preferred a will and then I wouldn't have this mess to sort out.

If there's any way you can find out the bank then you can at least inform them that he has died intestate and you are seeking probate as next of kin.
I'd suggest you get probate kicked off ASAP

I don’t wish to upset you, but do you have any evidence at all that he had any assets beyond what will pay for his funeral? For smaller amounts people often just present a death certificate. He rented a council house and has been in ill health for a while. You might be upsetting your family and causing yourself stress and upset for nothing.

@WingingItSince1973 sorry but people have told you to get a solicitor involved asap and you have chosen not to do this!! you could have done that anytime from the 6th of May. you must do this tomorrow and get things moving. he has died intestate but she is determined to get his money which is rightfully yours!!!! I also said to get the locks changed and you could have phoned a locksmith to go and change them for you and you to pick up the keys in a couple of days. your auntie is up to tricks.

What a shower your family are! Can you arrange to get the locks changed on the house, maybe the solicitor will be able to advise on that? Also, if Dad lived in a smaller town, can you walk into all the banks on the off chance and let them know you are the person entitled to Dad's estate and you are aware other family members are trying to meddle and they should wait until they hear from your solicitor?

Please make sure it is you and only you who registers his death & gets the death certificate. They will not be able to get any money from his bank without a death certificate.

I was going to suggest this. If you know the bank, they all have central bereavement teams. Don't worry about which branch. And I bet they are used to dealing with all sorts of family disagreements after a death. You'll be able to get the phone number online. At least they should be able to properly record your details and properly freeze any transactions until you have the death certificate,

I am getting a solicitor involved!! I haven't been able to do this today as I only spoke to the coroner today. It's on my list of things to do first thing in the morning!

This is a massive jumble of emotions for me. Beginning of the week my dad had died and I had no idea about inheritance etc. I was asked to check my birth certificate and then since then I've been inundated with messages telling me I need to adhered to dad's wishes for my aunty to have all his money. I have also been told it is a large sum of money. This I only found out today. I have been trying to keep my aunties feelings my priority and have been so worried about hurting her that I didn't want to tell her to leave his house and then send in locksmiths. It's a council house. I'm not interested in his contents. If she had found a thousand pound stashed away I'll never know and it doesn't worry me in the slightest. I'm just trying to navigate this emotionally and practically. If she hadn't have mentioned my birth certificate I wouldn't even have raised any questions. But they did and now I'm aware i am entitled to something which I absolutely think I should be a part of. For my children too. I've been asked not to get a solicitor and sort it out between us but today had made me realise that we can't do it that way because they will bamboozle me. Sorry if I'm not acting quick enough. How can I turn up at my dad's house and demand my aunty, cousins and other family members leave? That's not in my nature and I've tried to navigate this in the best way possible but I've been hassled so much today that I just wish my dad had made a will and left everything to them and I could be none the wiser. Thank you for those that have been helpful and sensitive.

I would also contact the Coroners Office to notify them that you are his daughter and the NOK - and for the report to come to you - so you can be the one to formally register your father’s death. (and take the Aunt out of the loop at that point)

Sorry if I'm coming across harsh. It's just hit me today about my dad. I'm really really struggling. As I'm sure my aunty is xx

I've done that today. Thank you. My aunty asked me not to do that and it was a big thing for me to go against her. She's arranging his funeral the way he wants it. I'm not trying to make this hard for her x

Remember your aunt is clearly trying to disinherit you.
Her brothers daughter and his grandchildren.

Thats the sort of person she is!

For your kids you need to stand your ground or get a solicitor who can act fast and tell them to move aside.

At least without the death certificate they can’t do anything but you need paperwork from the house.
Your aunt and cousins are making this time very hard for you, some people are just horrible.

A freeze on the bank account is actually a very good thing - I would say, if you know which bank it is (you dont need to know branch, acc no or anything), they will have a helpline for bereavement. Call immediately and CHECK the account is frozen. Ask them to note that you are the daughter and will be applying for letters of administration and that they may be contacted by other relatives who are not authorised to deal with finance. It should be noted on the account that way. It will be unfrozen when you, the administrator, unfreeze it to sorr the estate - no one else can access it in the meantime (bar possibly to pay for the funeral but they will heed to produce the bill).

You do really need to make sure you recieve the death certificate though. When the death is registered you need several copies to send to banks, employer, utility companies etc. If I were you I would make sure you make that appointment and that you get the certificate and at least 4 copies in your hands. If she attends too, no matter - just state that you will be the legal administer of the estate so they hand them to you.

Once you have them you can do just that - apply to administer the estate. It is futile her having them as she simply cannot - she cannot get authority to deal with his affairs without you signing it over. Even if you did that, she would be arranging to get his debts sorted and for you to recieve your inheritance. Swinging in and taking it for herself I'd pretty serious and can lead to a prison sentence.

Also, in dealing with family members, it can be helpful to phrase things as 'responsibilities' rather than 'rights'.

• you need copies of the death certificate as you are responsible for administering his estate
• you are responsible for paying the bills in the correct order and securing his estate so you need access to the flat to collect folders of paperwork

Etc

It takes the emotion out of things as it's just what needs doing and can only be done by you

A probate solicitor e.g. Coop can also help take emotion out of it - they will just do the correct things in the right order, contacting the relevant people. I think you need one here for your own piece of mind (even though estate is very simple with a sole heir and no property!)

Dear @WingingItSince1973
Do you know which housing association owns the house (or which council)?
You could call them and let them know you are taking on your dad's affairs since he died, let them know your aunt and cousins have been in the house and that they need to change the locks while you work out what needs to be done legally.

Hopefully that will resolve the house issue.