Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

DM is homeless and penniless

578 replies

Pottlee · 31/12/2023 13:29

I don’t know where to post this really, so apologies if it’s the wrong place.

My mum has been carer for her mum for maybe 5 years. Grandmother has now sadly passed away. Inheritance wise she has left a small amount behind, which is split between her two 60 ish year old ‘children’ (my mum and my uncle) - around £5-10k each. Mum and her brother have a fractured relationship but showed themselves to get on for the sake of their mum. Not sure it’s going to be as hunkydory now their mother has passed.

Now to the main point - my mum has nothing, like nothing to her name. She has no home (lived with her mum as carer), no money (other than the small inheritance) and no income at all. She has never worked so had made no contributions. She also had never claimed any benefits. The home she lived in with her mother will be sold and that money will go to an equity release company and to pay off a load of other debts.
What on earth happens to her now?
My uncle says she’s my responsibility now, but I would hate for that to be the case in that I don’t have room for her to live at my house, and harsh as it sounds I don’t want to become responsible for her for the rest of her life - hats off to everyone who can do it, but the idea of me having to care for her the way that she cared for her mum is just a no I’m afraid. We are close in a way but don’t get on in another. I couldn’t live with her. It would make my life unbearable and no doubt spell the end of my marriage because my DH couldn’t tolerate her daily either. My 2 DC love her but daily it would be disastrous. She is very lazy, judgemental, negative and nasty. And as I said would be able to make very little/no financial contribution.

So 1. Is she really regarded my responsibility now? 2. What should she do with regards of somewhere to live (she has no money for that) and income for the rest of her life? Is she not entitled to anything as she’s made no contributions or claimed anything at any point?

I’m aware I may come across as heartless because I don’t want to take her on so to speak, but I do want to help her set herself up somehow if she can. I’m just not in a position to be able to offer a place to live or financially.

please if anyone can advise who she can speak to or what she can do. Thank you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
EleanorLucyG · 31/12/2023 20:13

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 19:59

This is true, but presumably he was content to leave the care of his mother to his sister, so he didn't have to do it?

Show quote history

He wouldn't have had to do it regardless! He wasn't responsible for his mother any more than OP is for hers. He didn't want to be involved, fair enough, he didn't have to be. His sister got access to a roof over her head and money to spend, in exchange for being carer, so she chose to do it. Each made a decision they were happy with. OP's grandmother would have had carers from the council, paid for private carers or gone into an old people's home eventually otherwise. Nobody would have forced the uncle to do it so his sister wasn't saving him from that.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/12/2023 20:13

My female teachers of the 70s and 80s were either spinsters or older married women whose children had left home

My female teachers in the 60s and early 70s varied in age between mid 20s and around 50s. I have no idea about their marital or maternal status, though. They could have been single, married, divorced, childfree or the parent of several DC for all we knew.

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 20:15

Luddite26 · 31/12/2023 20:08

'Pissed about for a couple of years then had a baby.'
So mum is now early sixties say she was born in 1959 now age 64 had OP or first baby around 1978/79. Where were all the childcare providers for this single parent ( the father died while she was pregnant)?
I never said women didn't work.
I had my first child in 1989 and know how hard it was going out to work with unreliable or expensive childcare . Childcare provision only became more reliable post 1997.
So who looked after the children of all these university educated working women in the 70s and 80s?
My female teachers of the 70s and 80s were either spinsters or older married women whose children had left home. A few women in the later 80s came back into teaching as their kids left home. I'm really wracking my brains but there wasn't any teachers with young children and the male teachers at primary were all post war relics.
Maybe there is a North South divide here.

I can think of several of my female teachers who had at least three children. Maybe their parents helped out; I don't know.

My mother used to recall one female teacher - who had also taught her! - when she ventured into the school with a 3rd sister (brother went to another school), and she said to her, "surely not another girl?"

This teacher was the mother of three girls!!!!

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 20:16

I still say that people claiming "you have zero responsibility for your mother!" are defying the social contract.

Families are only too happy to rake in the benefits, but don't want to hold up their end by having the family unit, rather than the taxpayer funded safety net, be the point of first resort. Just point them toward the council!

@LaurieStrode You seem to be saying that if a family draws some kind of benefits from the system they should repay that 'debt' to society by taking in elderly relatives who can't look after themselves ( through their own fecklessness.)

Why are you assuming that all families receive benefits?

Some of us pay more in tax every year than the median salary and take next to nothing back from it.

This woman is an adult aged 60.
She's not a 90 year old needing care.
She can work.

What about her responsibility to herself?

Just because someone is 'family (ie blood relations or marriage) doesn't mean they deserve to be subsidised by others in their family, when they have made no effort in decades to earn a living or build up savings.

Being 'related' to someone isn't reason enough to bail them out of the mess they created for themselves over 45 years.

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 20:16

Actually when I think about it some more - I had more married female teachers with children than unmarried without! That was in the 1970s!

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/12/2023 20:17

I can think of several of my female teachers who had at least three children. Maybe their parents helped out; I don't know

One of my history teachers had at least one DC and I only knew that because DC was at the same school where her DM taught.

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 20:18

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 20:16

Actually when I think about it some more - I had more married female teachers with children than unmarried without! That was in the 1970s!

Exactly. I'd say 50% of my cohort at school (who went to uni in the early-mid 70s) became teachers and many worked full time.

greengreengrass25 · 31/12/2023 20:20

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/12/2023 20:17

I can think of several of my female teachers who had at least three children. Maybe their parents helped out; I don't know

One of my history teachers had at least one DC and I only knew that because DC was at the same school where her DM taught.

Edited

Yes same here

Loads of pupils with their mums as teachers at the school

SutWytTi · 31/12/2023 20:20

LaurieStrode · 31/12/2023 19:39

There is no document relating to the "social contract," but it's a construct that civilized people understand. Accepting largess with no intention of holding up one's own end of the bargain is not admirable.

Show quote history

In the UK, claiming state support in accordance with current law would mean a person was operating within the social contract.

You seem to be trying to redefine a person's obligations to align not with UK law but with your own political views - that is not how it works.

If you wish to start a campaign for adults in the UK to be deemed legally dependent on their children, good luck to you, but that would be a hard sell I think.

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 20:20

OK - O levels, 1979 -

English language/lit - female teacher, married with children
French - female teacher, married with children
Latin - male, bachelor
German - female teacher, married with children
History - female teacher, married with children
Spanish - female teacher, married with children
Maths - male teacher, married with children (his wife taught PE full-time in our school too)
Ancient History - single female, no children

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/12/2023 20:21

I still say that people claiming "you have zero responsibility for your mother!" are defying the social contract.

'I still say' doesn't equal' I'm right.' Or mean that anyone has to agree with you.

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 20:21

My female teachers of the 70s and 80s were either spinsters or older married women whose children had left home

This is so funny.

Who would refer to a woman in her 20s who was working in teaching as a 'spinster'?

My two best friends when I was at school both had mums who were teachers. (These Mums have since died, but if they were alive now would be in their mid-90s. One had 3 children, the other had two. One worked at the grammar school where I went.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/12/2023 20:22

Accepting largess with no intention of holding up one's own end of the bargain is not admirable.

A child being fed and clothed during their childhood isn't 'largesse' and they don't have intentions and an end to hold up because they are children. Retrospectively deciding they have to burn their marriage down, have their children share a room and provide for probably decades because of a perceived debt to a parent is madness.

Particularly when that parent seems to have spent her life sponging off others. What did all the partners get for their 'largesse'? To an actual grown woman.

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 20:23

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 20:21

My female teachers of the 70s and 80s were either spinsters or older married women whose children had left home

This is so funny.

Who would refer to a woman in her 20s who was working in teaching as a 'spinster'?

My two best friends when I was at school both had mums who were teachers. (These Mums have since died, but if they were alive now would be in their mid-90s. One had 3 children, the other had two. One worked at the grammar school where I went.

So my gorgeous, gregarious 26 year old is a spinster. Fuck me.

Luddite26 · 31/12/2023 20:24

I think there is money missing somewhere. The OP has been very vague as to why there was equity release and debts with a house to sell. Who has been running up debts and why? the grandmother? All very vague a and odd and I'm sure the OP, who must be at least early 40s, knows she doesn't have to take responsibility for her mother.

AnotherEmma · 31/12/2023 20:24

Pottlee · 31/12/2023 14:37

DM is early sixties

OK, so not state pension age yet, then.

For housing, she needs to contact her local council's housing advice team, apply for social housing and - when the house is put on the market - make a homeless application. Due to her age she is likely to get social housing for older people. There is lots of info about all this on the Shelter website and they have a helpline too.

As for finances, firstly she needs to open a bank account, it can be a basic one if she has no credit history. Once she's done that she needs to claim Universal Credit, and if she needs help with that she can contact Help to Claim: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/claiming/helptoclaim/

When the inheritance comes through she will need to notify UC. She will still get UC (as she'll get less than £16k) but if she gets more than £6k her UC will be reduced slightly.

I'm not sure off the top of my head whether she is now liable to pay council tax (ie since her mother has died) - she doesn't own the property but she is living there. She should contact the council to check. If she is liable for it, she can apply for the single person discount and Council Tax Reduction.

She isn't your responsibility, though, so beyond giving information and advice, I don't think you should get too involved. You certainly shouldn't house her. If there's a local Citizens Advice or branch of Age UK they can probably advise and help her.

Contact us about a Universal Credit application

Get help making a claim for Universal Credit - from the application through to your first correct payment.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/claiming/helptoclaim/

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 20:25

Fucking hell, people have some very strange ideas!

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 20:25

The only time I've seen 'spinster' is on my marriage cert!

Teaching is a female dominated profession.

In the 1970s onwards there were more women than men teaching, as there are now.

Those teachers ranged from new qualified at 22 to those almost ready to retire.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/12/2023 20:26

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 20:21

My female teachers of the 70s and 80s were either spinsters or older married women whose children had left home

This is so funny.

Who would refer to a woman in her 20s who was working in teaching as a 'spinster'?

My two best friends when I was at school both had mums who were teachers. (These Mums have since died, but if they were alive now would be in their mid-90s. One had 3 children, the other had two. One worked at the grammar school where I went.

I do wonder where people lived. My teachers were a mixture of married straight couples, some teachers young enough to be dating (once memorably the English teacher and science teacher came back from a residential with matching cold sores), kids, no kids and the male art and music teachers were a gay couple, no kids. 'Spinsters' FGS?

I swear some people lived in a Mormon commune in the 1980s.

SutWytTi · 31/12/2023 20:26

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 20:18

Exactly. I'd say 50% of my cohort at school (who went to uni in the early-mid 70s) became teachers and many worked full time.

Show quote history

Teaching has long had a disproportionately high number of women, it was one of the few jobs women could get into when recruitment was so sexist. Nursing of course, and secretarial.

I posted upthread that in 1985 only 29% of women had full time jobs.

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 31/12/2023 20:26

RainyDaysSundays · 31/12/2023 20:21

My female teachers of the 70s and 80s were either spinsters or older married women whose children had left home

This is so funny.

Who would refer to a woman in her 20s who was working in teaching as a 'spinster'?

My two best friends when I was at school both had mums who were teachers. (These Mums have since died, but if they were alive now would be in their mid-90s. One had 3 children, the other had two. One worked at the grammar school where I went.

Honestly what planet are some posters on?

I was at school from 1964 to 1977. My female teachers were a mixture of single and married women. Some of them had children at the school when I was there. My mother worked full time, the majority of my friends' mothers worked.

Maicon · 31/12/2023 20:28

The idea that a woman with no work history in her 60s is suddenly going to be employable is laughable at best. She's spent her whole life caring for people. And now she's going on the garbage heap.

SutWytTi · 31/12/2023 20:30

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 20:09

I realise this is anecdotal, but I graduated in 1985, and I always worked FT, as did the majority of my contemporaries.

My mother and my grandmother also both worked FT. Granny was born in 1913.

Show quote history

Some women have worked fulltime in every generation. The fact you graduated as a woman in 1985 makes you an outlier from the off.

The point is only 29% worked full time in 1985 - people keep talking as though the fact they had lots of female teachers means the workforce as a whole was full of women.

Luddite26 · 31/12/2023 20:30

A spinster is a woman who is unmarried beyond her prime. An old fashioned term commonly used in the 1970s - but no women in their 20s, 30s and 40s were not referred to as spinsters.
Young teachers never were and would not be referred to as spinsters. There was a higher number of unmarried older ladies in the 20th century due to the high death rates of men in the World Wars.

Lookingatthesunset · 31/12/2023 20:30

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/12/2023 20:26

I do wonder where people lived. My teachers were a mixture of married straight couples, some teachers young enough to be dating (once memorably the English teacher and science teacher came back from a residential with matching cold sores), kids, no kids and the male art and music teachers were a gay couple, no kids. 'Spinsters' FGS?

I swear some people lived in a Mormon commune in the 1980s.

Show quote history

It seems so!!

The relationships between teachers in our school were the subject of much merriment and speculation! There was the married couple of English teachers, whose daughter (can't remember what she taught) married one of the History teachers, and they split up and he got with the Latin teacher. That must have been pretty embarrassing in the staffroom... Then there were the two Chemistry teachers who split with their spouses when they had an affair... both of their respective children went to the school. Just for starters...