How can you not need permission for a HMO?

[TeapotCollection]

My poor, wonderful MIL is worried sick. The house next door sold last year needing total renovation. The new owners told her they were adding a small downstairs extension and creating a family home similar to hers. Plans were submitted, no one objected and in came the builders. She has now found out that it’s going to be a 6 bedroom HMO and she’s really worried about who she’s going to get living next door

She went to our local council offices and was told there’s nothing they can do. She asked where 6 extra cars were going to park when people already have to park in the next street and he said it wasn’t his problem

How can this be? Is there anything at all we can do?

I thought you did need permission? I’m sure I have seen planning applications in my area for HMO’s or conversions to flats. One house near me got turned down, in part due to the parking, or lack of. But people objected to the planning.

Depends on the council. In some areas six or fewer residents means planning permission is not needed.

We can’t believe that no permission is needed but the twat person at the council repeatedly said there’s nothing she can do. Surely this can’t be right. If she’d known this was the plan she’d have definitely objected, as I’m sure would a lot of the neighbours

Eg. https://www.islington.gov.uk/housing/landlords/houses-in-multiple-occupation/planning-permission-and-building-control-for-hmos#

Interesting, thanks for that. I’ll have a look on our Councils website

Just can’t believe they can get away with doing it so underhanded

Turning the issue on its head a bit; what are her main concerns? It might not be as bad as she thinks. HMOs can also be things like school halls of residence, so it might not mean 6 cars etc.

To be honest even if she had objected, it may not of stopped the HMO . Objecting to a planning proposal does not actually achieve a huge amount as long as the developer has met all the planning requirements. The UK needs housing and if the Local council can tick off an extra 6 rooms for occupancy, they will.

Usually they just need to apply for an HMO licence.

She’s definitely bothered about parking, it really is horrendous as it is. Although I take your point that there might not be 6 cars

I think potentially noise is her main concern. Have to say we haven’t directly asked her, she’s just said she’s worried about who she’s going to get

Also meant to say, they’ve added a room in the roof, how can that not need permission? The window overlooks her garden

You don't usually need permission for a loft conversion, it comes under permitted development.

Your MIL doesn't need to panic just yet. I would recommend waiting to see who moves in.

I used to live in an HMO, there were five of us, all adults in our 30's working full time. We didn't have parties or play loud music. None of us had cars due to a very good public transport network. Nobody ever complained about us.

HMO's are very common these days with adults working full time not able to get on the property ladder or to afford to rent a whole place by themselves. If you claim the housing element of UC and you are a single person under 35 you are expected to get a house share not a whole property to yourself.

Your MIL isn't necessarily going to get a house full of students, asylum seekers or drug addicts. Many landlords with HMO's specify that their tenants must be working and many don't take people on benefits. These were the rules of my HMO. Also my landlord rented out the rooms individually not the whole house to one group.

Can you speak to the owner to find out what their plans are?

Where we live you would have to request planning permission for change of usage from domestic to hmo. Even if they don't need an HMO license, they might be in trouble for not doing that?

The owner of the house isn’t returning MILs calls

It is good to hear that some professionals do live in these places though. I think MIL has convinced herself that it’s going to be full of partying drug dealers

Looks like we just have to wait and see who moves in. It won’t be for a while, it’s nowhere near finished

That person at the council was truly awful though

I think in most places, up to 6 beds doesn't need planning permission.

I think there should have been a party wall agreement though for the loft conversion.

If you have concerns that the owner might not be legit then refer it to the fire brigade. They have powers to ensure HMOs are safe (some of them are horrendously unsafe for the people that live there) and can stop occupation if they are concerned it doesn't meet fire regulations with means of escape etc.

There's one in the street where my mum and dad live. 6 people in a normal 3 bed terrace where just 1 family used to live. It's very tiny rooms but the people there are all regular people with jobs and there are no issues other than the council not giving them a big enough bin for that number of people so they need to ask other neighbours in the street to use theirs.

They may not need pp but may need a licence and conform to buildings regulations.

My neighbours had to apply for a licence for HMO as the owner was planning to rent to two others. One of the neighbours objected until the circumstances were explained - owners was converting the house for their adult child with autism to live in with his friends, one also has autism, one has Down's syndrome. They are the sweetest, quietest neighbours imaginable. None can drive. It's not always awful

You most definitely need a Party Wall Agreement for a loft conversion. Generally an HMO licence is required for properties with five or more unrelated households living within, however most local authorities state three or more unrelated households require a licence. HMO licenses are very important as regards space and safety standards
I would be worried if the property next door was to be designated supported housing as by definition the tenants will have certain needs. Landlords are charging local authorities around £400/450 a week per tenant per room for this kind of accommodation. And then have the cheek to register themselves as a Community Interest Charity as a tax dodge
Establish what your local authority policy is re HMO registration, and contact your MP with your MILs concerns. Get any neighbours involved that you can as that will be helpful

Blimey we hadn’t thought about fire escapes. There definitely isn’t one. There’s a door in the entry (entry shared with MIL) and another door out into the garden

Had no idea about a party wall agreement either so thanks for that. Don’t know what it means but I’ll look it up

I actually think he might struggle to let the rooms anyway, honestly they’re tiny, there’s no shared lounge just a kitchen that’s nowhere near big enough for 6 people

Oh and the neighbours she knows are as concerned as she is

I actually think he might struggle to let the rooms anyway, honestly they’re tiny, there’s no shared lounge just a kitchen that’s nowhere near big enough for 6 people

People are desperate for accommodation. Depending on the price of the rooms there may or may not be a high turn over of tenants. For example now there are plenty of single people aged 50+ who are working in lower paying jobs who live in accommodation like that and they stay for a couple of years. Regardless if you live somewhere like that you are unlikely to have a car as you can't afford one.

Also if parking is generally an issue on those roads and there is a school/shops/hospital/office workers causing the issue then your mother and neighbours would have to ask the council for a parking permit scheme. Yes the costs go up over the years but how much depends on the council. If someone asks for it and they are consulted they just need to make sure what they ask for sorts out who is parking. So for example on my CM's road the days and hours of operation are to stop office workers parking all day, there as on mine is to stop people parking who use the school and local hospital aswell as office workers.

As far as we know it’s only volume of residents causing the parking problem, there’s nothing nearby to suggest otherwise

We’re told he’s going to charge £1,000 a month per room, all bills included

and many don't take people on benefits

This is no longer legal (in England, in Wales, no idea about elsewhere), if the reason for being declined is being in receipt benefits. Of course, in actuality, many people in receipt of benefits wouldn't meet the (often ridiculous) income threshold for paying the rent. Or sometimes the rent itself. So can be (deliberately?) factored out that way.

The blanket phrase "people on benefits", and assumptions made about them, is disgusting, btw.

I do feel for OP's Mum though, as some HMOs can be problematic for various reasons.

HMOs don’t normally need planning permission unless they have 7 or more bedrooms.

They will need an HMO license. This will ensure that there is enough space and facilities for the number of tenants.

if you are in an Article 4 area, they will need permission to operate an HMO.