How can you not need permission for a HMO?

[TeapotCollection]

My poor, wonderful MIL is worried sick. The house next door sold last year needing total renovation. The new owners told her they were adding a small downstairs extension and creating a family home similar to hers. Plans were submitted, no one objected and in came the builders. She has now found out that it’s going to be a 6 bedroom HMO and she’s really worried about who she’s going to get living next door

She went to our local council offices and was told there’s nothing they can do. She asked where 6 extra cars were going to park when people already have to park in the next street and he said it wasn’t his problem

How can this be? Is there anything at all we can do?

The same thing happened to my parents when their neighbour died. My dad looked into it and there was nothing they could do to stop it. They are much more noisy than they old lady who lived there before but I guess anyone noisy could have moved in anyway.

At £1000 per person per month they're not going to be attracting applicants on benefits - it will be professionals, and unless you're in the immediate vicinity of a university, in an area where £1000 is cheap, it won't be students either.

Are you somewhere with good public transport and / or lots of employment nearby? If so you'll probably find most or all of them use public transport or cycle; I'd be very surprised if all 6 are running a car.

DFriend lived in an HMO of about the same size until recently. Her housemates had jobs like university lecturer and restaurant manager. The reality of the housing crisis is that even young people in professional jobs cannot afford to live alone - most especially if they're trying to save up. They held the odd BBQ but honestly I think they were less disruptive to the neighbours than a family with several children would have been - certainly no newborns screaming in the middle of the night or children shrieking in the back garden.

If you want to show MIL the sort of person who lives in an HMO nowadays, go on www.spareroom.co.uk and look at the room wanted adverts. Mine has everyone from junior doctors (yep, they're not kidding about the low pay) to PhD students to office workers.

If anything is going to be an issue, it will be bins - hopefully your local council allows HMOs a larger black bin, because fitting six small households waste into one small black bin is a challenge.

When they do eventually move in, I'd go with MIL to pop around and welcome them to the neighbourhood. Always good to get off on the right foot - if there are any issues it's easier to deal with them if you're already on waving terms.

To give you a sample of who is looking for rooms in such places, the most recent people who have specified their job on my local Spareroom listings are

• medic who is about to begin a PhD
• doctor
• architect
• PhD student
• MBA student
• junior doctor
• MSc student
• Head chef
• "working at the hospital"
• postgraduate student
• PhD student
• NHS clinical scientist
• IT professional
• marketing professional
• working for a PR agency
• youth support assistant
• paralegal

I've not mentioned the ones who haven't specified their jobs ("professional") but you get the idea... these aren't reprobates!

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate your input and reassurance

No university nearby, couple of hospitals within 20 minutes

MIL has thankfully calmed down a bit now but we’re all still very, very angry at the owner for all of his lies. Heaven help him next time he sees her

Does this help?

https://www.gov.uk/house-in-multiple-occupation-licence

If more than 5 people then they need a licence. That's not the same thing as PP.

Have you tried seeking advice from CA or whatever?

We are attached to an HMO with 6 rooms and then next door ( but not attached) is a massive building with 6 flats. Depending on the residents there can sometimes be music but this is usually turned off by ten pm. Generally, we’ve found six strangers living together to be more respectful than 6 people that know each other. I certainly wouldn’t be put off in future. Mind you our next door neighbours have two living rooms and two kitchens which may help them spread out a bit.

To reassure you, my parents house (where I also lived) has an HMO close by. They are good friends with the person who adjoins the HMO who which has been the same family since the 80s.

It was initially supported accomodation for people who had been housed in the local psychiatric hospital and were being moved due to 'care in the community'. For approximately 8 years this was great, there was a warden who supervised and supported, they were quiet elderly people and few left the house. One elderly lady became very friendly with a number of residents and would have a chat and knit scarves for her friends, she left when she could no longer manage the stairs and everyone was very sad.

It was then used for slightly younger more high needs mental health patients this caused a bit more upset as some were prone to wander and occasionally get into gardens, and one used to bother/frighten the school children. They weren't violent, dangerous or criminal though and any issues were dealt with.

It was then sold off and has since been privately owned, for a time a large company had it for foreign staff seconded to the UK. This was great, they were quiet respectful and professional. When their need for staff to travel reduced it was used by a professional sports team for players who needed local accommodation, this was a bit more noisy but no significant issues. Since it has been standard rentals to private individuals and is entirely trouble free.

There has never been a need for any formal action to be taken over any noise or other nuisance. On the other hand I have a family property near me that has caused us to complain to the council and the police multiple times.

Why what is she going to do?

He has the right to do with his property what he wants as long as its within legal parameters. Perhaps he had plans that since changed.

And if he had told her from the start he was planning an HMO it wouldnt make any difference anyway.

Depending on your location it's very likely to house single young professionals. Most of my grad friends who aren't married, in London especially, live in HMOs and we're all early-mid 30s. No-one can afford to live alone let alone buy.

I don't think even if you could object to the council you'd be able to stop it. Lack of affordable housing especially for the young is at a crisis point.

The property owner doesn't need to get your MIL's permission for any of the works and any objection to the PP on the basis of intended use as a HMO wouldn't have gone anywhere. The U.K. has a housing crisis and people need somewhere to live, your MIL sounds very NIMBY. Most HMOs I know of locally are professional adults, or students. Students are only there 7-9 months of the year and will be studying!

Having a job that requires you to deliver correct information people don't want to hear doesn't make her a "twat".

If your local council doesn't require licencing for an HMO of 6 people or less, what did you want her to do?

My DD lives in a HMO flat, she is a professional as are the rest of the flat, they cause no more issues than a family, or probably far fewer.

At £1000 per room which is high considering what DD pays for a city centre location with a shared lounge the occupants are going to be employed professionals

The only type of HMO I wouldn't wantto live next to is a student house, and I have always felt sorry to the neigbours where my DC have lived.

I am an HMO landlord. All my tenants are lovely. All young professionals and people from abroad doing internships and such. It really all depends on which end of the market they'll be pitching at.

What unites all HMOs though is that ownership of cars by the tenants is vanishingly rare. A family home is much more likely to have multiple cars, or even a car at all.

That's bs! 2-5 tenants of more than 1 family needs a hmo licence and 3 objections based on facts will cancel it.

We have 2 HMOs on our street, one house is full of people who work at the local hospital which is walking distance so no or few cars and I never see or hear a peep out of them. The other is a bit of a dosshouse sadly but at the end of the day they are ‘just’ neighbours. A large family could have moved in who would be equally/potentially annoying. While nice neighbours is always a good thing it’s not always a given 🤷‍♀️