Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Future Inheritance Will Be a Nightmare

161 replies

WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:16

I’ve NC for this, and apologies in advance for the very long thread. I don’t want to drip feed so will include as much relevant information as possible, but I would like to be prepared for this event when it happens.

I have 2 DC who are young adults. I split from their father when they were 1 after years of physical and mental abuse (towards me not them), he was convicted on one occasion when I finally had the courage to go to court, and I had numerous non molestation orders with power of arrest attached.

Their paternal grandfather did the same to their paternal grandmother (which their father witnessed) and as a result he was brought up by his mum and had sporadic contact with dad over the years. His mum is an amazing woman, had a good job and worked hard to provide them both a safe and stable home – she’s a gentle soul. He however, has never left home (he’s 46), never had a proper job (part time doorman), has a drink/drug/and prescription drug problem, and has violent outbursts. Over the years he has caused untold damage to his mums house, completely disrespected her boundaries, never paid rent (despite being asked) and is generally very very unpredictable & abusive.

My DC have always had a great relationship with their DGM, and have seen/witnessed the majority of his behaviour. DGM has recently updated her will and told DC her wishes:

Her house (worth approx. 400k) – split between my DC only

Cash/assets – 30% to each DC and 40% to her son (their father)

It seems she has also stated that although the house belongs to DC, he can live there for as long he likes (lifetime interest). She has done this for a multitude of reasons as she doesn’t trust him and is scared of him. She also knows that he will blow any money he is left, on drugs (he was left 500k inheritance 15 years ago and spent it all on drugs/partying)

Now to my concerns:

I’m petrified of his reaction when he discovers he hasn’t been left the house. I can’t emphasise enough how little respect he has for anyone and anything – including his children and mother. I can say with 99% certainty he will erupt.
He has lived with his mother his entire life, completely dependant on her to house him. He has never paid a bill, genuinely, and as such I’m concerned he could challenge the will on this basis?
I’m also worried that he will do considerable damage to the property out of spite/temper and my DC would have no recourse to remove him from the property and/or get him to pay for the damage.
I guess I’d like to know how I can help the DC when this time comes, how can they be prepared for the absolute shit storm that’s going to come their way when DGM passes away?

Thanks wise ones.

OP posts:
JennyMule · 16/06/2023 21:27

There is absolutely nothing you or your children can do. Presumably the testator sought legal advice and presumably as a consequence she's left her son, who is financially dependent on her, a life interest (so he's housed) and some cash so he can afford to live. Most wills that create a life tenancy include specific requirements for the life tenant to maintain the property and not damage it or behave in an untenantlike manner. Your children will need, when the time comes, to monitor the situation and seek legal advice should they need to.

MILofdoom · 16/06/2023 21:33

Is she poorly or likely to live for a good while yet? Hopefully the latter so your DC will be older and wiser to deal with whatever shit they have coming. Also as he can live there indefinitely and also have 40% of her cash (no idea if this is a lot or not) maybe he will be okay and not trash the place as it'll be his home still, rent free forever. He sounds like a nightmare. You have my sympathies that what should be a decent situation for your DC (sort of) is already tarred by your ex and his potential shit behaviour.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:34

JennyMule · 16/06/2023 21:27

There is absolutely nothing you or your children can do. Presumably the testator sought legal advice and presumably as a consequence she's left her son, who is financially dependent on her, a life interest (so he's housed) and some cash so he can afford to live. Most wills that create a life tenancy include specific requirements for the life tenant to maintain the property and not damage it or behave in an untenantlike manner. Your children will need, when the time comes, to monitor the situation and seek legal advice should they need to.

Thanks for your response.

Would there be any recourse for them if he were for example to damage the property? What about charging him market rent? I just know that windows and doors will be damaged, and he won't pay any bills whilst he's living there.

Would he have grounds to challenge the will and ask for a % of the house, given that she's housed him his entre life?

OP posts:
mobear · 16/06/2023 21:36

They will not be able to charge him market rate rent. That would defeat the purpose of the lifetime interest.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:36

MILofdoom · 16/06/2023 21:33

Is she poorly or likely to live for a good while yet? Hopefully the latter so your DC will be older and wiser to deal with whatever shit they have coming. Also as he can live there indefinitely and also have 40% of her cash (no idea if this is a lot or not) maybe he will be okay and not trash the place as it'll be his home still, rent free forever. He sounds like a nightmare. You have my sympathies that what should be a decent situation for your DC (sort of) is already tarred by your ex and his potential shit behaviour.

Thankfully she's fine at the moment, and no ill health. I guess you never know what's around the corner though.

As awful as this sounds, I pray that she outlives him and we won't have deal with the aftermath once she goes. Words can't stress how scared everyone is of him, and how awful he will be when this happens.

OP posts:
Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:37

mobear · 16/06/2023 21:36

They will not be able to charge him market rate rent. That would defeat the purpose of the lifetime interest.

That's good to know, thank you.

OP posts:
Bogeyes · 16/06/2023 21:40

Your daughters will be responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the house. Hw will have the same rights as a tenant. A very difficult situation.

sparkleice · 16/06/2023 21:42

It seems she has also stated that although the house belongs to DC, he can live there for as long he likes (lifetime interest)

Well thats a load of shit then isnt it

MadeForThis · 16/06/2023 21:43

Who will pay all the bills for the house?
Council tax
Insurance
Gas
Electric
Water
General upkeep

Guaranteed he won't.

Someone needs to have a word with their GM and explain the financial consequences for your dc.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:43

Bogeyes · 16/06/2023 21:40

Your daughters will be responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the house. Hw will have the same rights as a tenant. A very difficult situation.

I totally understand general maintenance & upkeep as that's to be expected. But what about damage caused by him? They can't be expected to consistently pay out for things surely?

I understand what DGM is trying to do, but I know it's going to cause more problems for the DC than it's worth - and it will actually cost them a lot of money in the long run to keep the house in a good condition due to his behaviour.

OP posts:
JennyMule · 16/06/2023 21:44

I don't know what the terms of the will are so I am afraid cannot answer your questions with any certainty. All I can say is that life tenants don't pay rent- they've been left the right to live in the property rent free, the life tenant is expected not to damage the property but precisely who is obliged to pay for maintenance depends on the terms of the will.
I suggest you speak to your childrens' grandmother and articulate your concerns to her, if you have the sort of relationship where you could discuss such things.
He could make a claim for provision as a dependent - anyone could chance it - but that doesn't mean he'd succeed and it sounds like his mother has met his needs for housing and funds so I wouldn't rate his chances of success highly

Ilikewinter · 16/06/2023 21:44

Can you have a honest and really frank conversation so she understands what shes inflicting on her beloved DGC should she go ahead and leave them the house. It sounds like a poisoned chalice to me and one that keeps everyone financially linked for many years to come.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:45

sparkleice · 16/06/2023 21:42

It seems she has also stated that although the house belongs to DC, he can live there for as long he likes (lifetime interest)

Well thats a load of shit then isnt it

It is super shit. I understand he's her only child and she wants to do the right thing by him (not that he deserves it) - but it's the worst thing for my DC.

OP posts:
Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:45

MadeForThis · 16/06/2023 21:43

Who will pay all the bills for the house?
Council tax
Insurance
Gas
Electric
Water
General upkeep

Guaranteed he won't.

Someone needs to have a word with their GM and explain the financial consequences for your dc.

Oh he absolutely won't pay a penny. I guarantee it.

OP posts:
Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:48

Ilikewinter · 16/06/2023 21:44

Can you have a honest and really frank conversation so she understands what shes inflicting on her beloved DGC should she go ahead and leave them the house. It sounds like a poisoned chalice to me and one that keeps everyone financially linked for many years to come.

I think I'm going to have to. You're right, it's absolutely a poisoned chalice and although done with the best of intentions, is going to be more trouble than it's worth for DC.

I'm considering showing DC this post tomorrow (we have already discussed the concerns) and it might spur them to speak to DGM themselves about it all.

OP posts:
RoyKentFanclub · 16/06/2023 21:50

He’ll be living there rent free but he’ll be responsible for utilities. It will just be like he’s renting it but without the rent. Your dc will need to keep it insured.

it’s basically like it isn’t theirs until he dies.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:50

JennyMule · 16/06/2023 21:44

I don't know what the terms of the will are so I am afraid cannot answer your questions with any certainty. All I can say is that life tenants don't pay rent- they've been left the right to live in the property rent free, the life tenant is expected not to damage the property but precisely who is obliged to pay for maintenance depends on the terms of the will.
I suggest you speak to your childrens' grandmother and articulate your concerns to her, if you have the sort of relationship where you could discuss such things.
He could make a claim for provision as a dependent - anyone could chance it - but that doesn't mean he'd succeed and it sounds like his mother has met his needs for housing and funds so I wouldn't rate his chances of success highly

Thank you.

Let's assume the will doesn't specify this for arguments sake, but if he were to continually damage the property - would DC be able to legally have him removed from the property, or does a lifetime interest mean he can do whatever the hell he likes to the house?

OP posts:
Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:52

RoyKentFanclub · 16/06/2023 21:50

He’ll be living there rent free but he’ll be responsible for utilities. It will just be like he’s renting it but without the rent. Your dc will need to keep it insured.

it’s basically like it isn’t theirs until he dies.

If he were a decent human being that wouldn't be an issue. Given his past/current behaviour includes him damaging walls, breaking down doors, smashing windows regularly - I have little faith that he will keep the property in good repair whilst he's still alive.....

OP posts:
RoyKentFanclub · 16/06/2023 21:54

It’s his house to do with as he pleases whilst he’s alive.

Redshoeblueshoe · 16/06/2023 21:54

I think your own suggestion is a very good idea, that your DC talk to her, and list all the concerns.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 16/06/2023 21:55

RoyKentFanclub · 16/06/2023 21:54

It’s his house to do with as he pleases whilst he’s alive.

Really? So he can damage it, devalue it, and my DC have to pay to have this repaired each and every time?

OP posts:
Redshoeblueshoe · 16/06/2023 21:55

RoyKent - it's not his.

OP I also meant to say they could suggest that your DC and the GM speak to a lawyer together

RoyKentFanclub · 16/06/2023 21:56

It is what it is. She clearly wants to provide for her son. Your dc won’t get anything until he dies. It’s just the same as if it went to him first but he can’t sell it.

RoyKentFanclub · 16/06/2023 21:57

Redshoeblueshoe · 16/06/2023 21:55

RoyKent - it's not his.

OP I also meant to say they could suggest that your DC and the GM speak to a lawyer together

It’s a lifetime interest. He can live there gif life so whilst the dc will be the legal owners yes effectively it is like it’s his if he wants it

ArcticSkewer · 16/06/2023 21:58

Think of it more like your gm is ensuring that the house is eventually left to the grandkids rather than sold by him to buy drugs/given to a girlfriend/left to the dogs home.

Whatever state it is in when he dies, that's what they eventually inherit.

An alternative is to do a variation to the will after your grandmother's death and just give the house to him and see who he chooses to leave it to.