Ex trying to get me to pay back child maintenance

[Rendi]

Hello. I was wondering if anyone has gone through the same as me and could share their experience and outcome?
My ex husband and I both agreed to go via CMS for them to calculate how much child maintenance he may have to pay? I had a MARAC from the police as was in an abusive marriage covering many things, so I did not have to pay the fee to set up the child maintenance account. Anyway ever since the divorce in Aug 2019 my ex has taken me to court over anything he can think of.
In March 2020 I received a letter saying my ex has applied to stop paying child maintenance. He earns 60 grand a year compared to my 12. We have 50/50 joint care of our one and only child. CMS was aware of all this, as we provided them with the info. Covid lock downs happened and the hearing was delayed twice, so was not heard until March 2021. My ex was told as we have 50/50 shared care that he no longer has to pay any child maintenance. A few weeks later I received the court decision which stated that my ex was granted to stop paying in March 2020 which was the month he applied to the courts, but a full 1 year before the case was actually heard. I never appealed the decision as I just did not want to deal with any more stress. Payments stopped straight away, as the payments I received came directly from my ex and a few months later I received a call from CMS saying that my ex had phoned them quite angry telling them of the decision and it has been backdated and therefore they need to pay the 1 years worth of child maintenance back. They informed me that they advised him as he paid me direct, they would not pay any monies back, he then said fine he will take it to court. I then received a letter from the small claims that I have to pay the monies back, plus he is adding interest. However after I went through the correct process of replying, we were both told that this was not a matter for the small claims court and it would go to county court. So today we had a hearing. I had already provided my info and statement saying that we went through CMS who were fully aware of our earnings and joint care who worked out the amount my ex was to pay. I provided the county court proof of my earnings, my out goings, that I provide most of what our son needs. I pay for the parent pay account, as my ex refuses. Proof of abuse, police docs and the fact he has been taking me to court several times since the divorce. I wrote that I received the monies in good faith, going through what I thought was the correct channels and the money was spend on our son which is of mutual benefit. I also said the case was delayed twice due to lock downs, which is no ones fault and the letter received regarding the decision for my ex to stop paying never mentioned about the money being paid back and at no point was I ever placed on notice (informed, advised I would have to pay it back or there is a possibility I could be made to pay it back or that I was given the option for payments to stop while waiting for a decision to be made by the courts) All of which my ex said he agreed with when the judge read that part out to him. The judge dismissed the case, citing she has no jurisdiction, due to us going through CMS. My issue now is. At the end of the hearing my ex asked the judge what can he do now to get "get his money back?" and vowed he would.
The judge replied that he would have to go back to CMS and either they would pay him back and that would be that or they would try and get me to pay him back or pay him back, then try and get the money back they paid my ex off me. Sorry for the long, long message, but wanted to fully explain the situation. So the question is, has anyone experienced this and if so what happened?
I didn't feel any relief after the hearing and the fact the judge dismissed my ex's application, because I know he would have bee straight on the internet and calling CMS and will still be trying to get this money back, despite agreeing today in court that the money was received in good faith and was applied to our son. He is fully aware I don't live a fancy lifestyle. I work part time and receive some Universal Credit. I don't drink, smoke or have Sky TV before anyone judges me for getting UC. I've always worked. But ever since the divorce I've had to work part time to work around our child as he's too young to stay at home.

I haven't any advice, but I had to say that you're amazing.
Keep going, it sounds exhausting.

CMS won't pay him back and the court has told him no as well. So your ex can't have his money back. It's that simple. He lost

As far as you are concerned, it is over. He's a bully. Let him waste his time and money complaining, he won't get anywhere.

CMS will tell him to jog the fuck on. He’s got no chance.

Try to put it out of your mind. What an arsehole he sounds.

It's not about the money for him, it's about control and power. He's trying to show he's still in charge. He's not of course. Well done for standing up to him.

Honestly, this is disgusting. I wish i knew you both IRL, so i could have a chat with him.

I wouldn't worry about it to be honest. If both the family Court, and small claims kicked it out then he'd have to fund another court action himself. He'll not be eligible for legal aid, and from the sounds of it whilst he might be vendictive, and tight regarding supporting your child financially. It'll cost him a lot to go back to court now. Let him huff and puff all he wants, but I doubt he'll actually put his hand in his pocket to take legal action against you to try and recover money. You can still seek legal advice from CAB though.

Firstly does he actually have the child 50/50? Was this also the arrangement throughout Covid when the case was delayed? I can’t see that you’ve mentioned that in your post. As above the county court case has been dismissed so he can’t pursue his loss through that means again. He would have to go back to CMS to do as the J has suggested. Anecdotally at least it would seem that will be a fruitless endeavour. In any event even if he was successful in getting the CMS to pay him back and they then seek to recoup the money from you (unlikely as on what basis) it would have to be a rate you can afford. Given your circumstances that would be likely to be a v v low monthly amount. He will more than likely have to take action against the CMS to recover the money, that’s not going to happen any time soon if at all. I know it’s difficult especially when dealing with an abusive person, but the reality is he is going to be in great difficulty here and any resolution between him and the CMS would be unlikely within the next 12 months. Put it out of your head and let him waste his own time and money. And take pride in representing yourself as well as you did! You might not feel like it but you are clearly more than able to fight your own corner.

Surely you knew CMS is based not only on earnings but how many days care the child is with the other parent??! I can't imagine CMS will do anything mind as anything over the minimum is paid on his own will.

How does he actually manage to look after your child 50-50?

He sounds absolutely horrendous, and I hope they wipe the floor with him

He is clearly an arsehole, but in fairness, if you have your child 50/50 you are not entitled to maintenance, so I don't blame him for feeling aggrieved - on £60k he must have been paying you quite a lot each month, and due to the delay in the case being sorted, you've presumably received hundreds if not thousands of pounds you weren't actually entitled to. I don't blame him for feeling frustrated.

He won’t get any money back. He lost. Ignore the threats.

Thats a very good point. The system has screwed up

Thanks for all the messages. To address the replies in one message (hopefully?) I was in an abusive marriage, that got worse and worse as the years passed. Mainly controlling, financial, sometimes sexual and violent. I was blamed for all his failings, even the ones I knew nothing about. For example if he was taking an exam for work that he did not tell me about and he did not pass, due to not studying for it, as I later found out. I was blamed. When I had breast cancer in my 30's he shouted that "I don't give a f**K, because I'm not the one getting the attention" He did not even tell his parents I had it or his best friend. He charged me petrol money to take me the the app I could not take myself to and would make me pay cash for things he wanted (not me) that he did not want to pay the full amount for. He would lock the doors at 5PM and say "you're not going out anywhere are you?" After 18 months of cancer treatment and 3 operations, when I felt 80% back to normal he said "I'll allow you to go out twice a month"

Anyway he got 50/50 joint shared care because I wanted what was best for our son who got very upset when he thought his dad did not want to see him. At first my ex only wanted to have him a few days per month.
As for the comment about in fairness I'm not entitled to child maintenance and don't blame for him feeling frustrated you obviously don't know the full situation, which is due to me not writing about it. So I will.
I have proof of the abuse of my marriage and police etc got involved who contacted a women's charity which I was not told about, therefore not aware of who just showed up at my place or work and wanted to place me and my son in a women's shelter. Instead I obtained a non molestation order and occupation order, which I was told are difficult to get, but the judge said I had overwhelming evidence. He never paid for anything for our son, but spent plenty on himself. During the divorce the judge said he had never seen such a disparity in lifestyles of a married couple. That I went without, worked all the time, did everything for our son and the home, while he went away for weekends, spent thousands on clothes, nice car and whatever else he wanted. Designer watch, leather jackets and shoes. Expensive wine, Whisky and fancy teas.
Also I still have the proof that my ex text and asked how much child maintenance did I want, once the judge ordered him to pay it and also half towards any school related items, as he had never done beforehand and refused once we had separated.
I said we would go through the CMS who were fully aware of our earnings and 50/50 shared care. As was the judge who ordered him to pay it. My solicitor was of course aware and told me in some cases it's not paid because of 50/50, but the judge ordered it and he earns so much more than me that it's for the benefit for our son. My ex paid £56 a week. He then took it to court to stop a year later and won, which I accepted. However as he was paying it directly from his account to mine. (his choice) which is an option CMS gives, because even though we used them to sort out and calculate the amount, they would take off a percentage if my ex was to pay me via them. So as I said in my orig post that there was a delay, due to lockdowns which was no ones fault. At no point was I told, advised by the CMS, Courts or legal experts that my ex could try and get it back. I even spoke to someone from CMS regarding the situation and nothing was mentioned, they said that as a decision had not been made.
But there was nothing stopping my ex from paying while a decision was waiting to be made. So I'm not in the wrong in anyway.
He also said when we had court the other day that the money he paid was for the benefit for our son and knows the money was applied for him to cover the cost of school uniform, school meals, school trips and other general things. He may feel frustrated, but he has spent thousand on solicitors and court applications to take me to court over whatever he can. The last 2 times he withdrew the applications. The last one was because the section 7 report that Cafcass sent to us and court stated that they have found him to be manipulative and deliberately alienating our son against me and my family for financial gain. So please don't waste any sympathy on him.

Sorry I can’t see if you’ve answered the question - did he have your child 50% of the time? Not what was the agreement, did it happen

You do owe it him what u chose to do about that is up to you

I can't see how you owe him anything, and up to now it appears the courts agree.

The abuse in your marriage and everything else that has gone in makes no difference.

what you earn and what he earns makes no difference.

the non mol, the disparity in lifestyles does not impact CM.

the only thing that matters is the proportion of care. If it is genuinely 50:50 then no, he doesn’t pay maintenance.

so you do owe him, if he had the child 50:50. Regardless of any other circumstance.

however, him getting the money out of you is a different matter. Just don’t pay, unless he can get a court order to force you. Or offer £1 a month as that’s all you can afford if he does manage a court order.

you won’t be made to pay if it significantly affects you and your child.

I realise he’s a shit and you are struggling, but you won’t get anywhere trying to prove he owes you or you’re entitled to that money, unless he’s actually had less than 50:50

He sounds like a complete bastard, and I'm so sorry you have to deal with him. Unfortunately none of that is taken into account when it comes to CM- if he does have him 50 50, he doesn't need to pay anything.
You say that a judge ordered that he had to pay anyway- Was this based on 50 50? Has this judgement been overturned, and why?

Unfortunately, I'd question whether being with such a complete arsehole for half his time is good for your child anyway...

You don't owe him the steam of your piss.

Lot's of noise on this thread.

If day to day care is shared then there's no primary carer and no CMS is owed.

I would be annoyed as well.

He’s being ridiculous. The court will never order him to pay you back. Don’t worry about it. If he wants to waste all his money pursuing court cases that’s on him. I would advise working more hours if possible though, as you don’t want to be reliant on him for anything.

Sorry posted to soon. Was going to say you don’t want to be reliant on him because he is right about there being no maintenance due for 50-50 care. So if you want to be able to provide more than the basics you will need to up your hours. There’s help for childcare costs if you are alone and on UC.

OP isn't saying she wants the maintenance now, she understands she's not entitled to it. The issue is she went through the proper channels and was awarded it which was later challenged and it was removed. But with a back date. That wasn't her fault and for her to repay it would mean her son would miss out as it would affect her outgoings when she's on a low wage. A decent father wouldn't be pushing for it. And that judge should have wiped the floor with him and told him to accept he's getting nothing!

OP, I can see how you've ended up with 50:50 with a bully of an ex but I can't see how it will do your son any good to spend half his time with a man like that. If I were you I'd look into the legalities around reducing that contact.

OP will never have to pay the CMS back.

CMS are horrendous more than half of the complaints sent to ICE (The Independent Case Examiner) are upheld. I imagine OPs ex told CMS he shouldn't be paying, they said he should and he was right. He needs to move on.

Inept department coming to the end of it's unhelpful existence.

Stay strong Rendi. I think he's narcistic, my ex was the same. I found the best way to deal with my ex, was in my head - feel sorry for him. I'd tell myself 'he has mental problems that he has no control over, that he will be miserable for the rest of his life, and no matter who I was he would treat me exactly the same'. Then I absolutely removed him from my personal circle and I did not let him occupy my head.

Empathising with their pathetic behaviour turns your thoughts into positivity - whereas calling him a C U N T (which he is) creates negative feelings, negative vibes and your son and anyone else around you will feel the mood. Look at the positives - he's your ex and you no longer have to have that K N O B in your personal circle again.

If he is causing you any distress, get the animal a restraining order.

Are the financials from the divorce sorted? Is it possible you can go after spoucal maintenance, to provide you with the flexibility to retrain in a job that will have more earning potential - because you were 'barred' from doing anything like that in your time together.

Going back to the maintenance - he saw his A R S E in court because the judge said 'no' - so let him waste his time and energy - but don't let him waste yours.

What's the worst that can happen? CMS say you have to pay him back - then you say I can only afford £5 a month - they can't take what you've not got.

Cut off all contact with your ex - block his number, block his email. If he turns up at your door don't talk to him, show him no emotion as your ex will be thriving off that - then get a retraining order on him. I know you have a child together, but its better to remove his negativity rather than letting him see it.

Also, is your son still happy spending that much time there?

And live your best life, remain positive and you'll attract positivity :-)