POA-who should it be?

[POAPITA]

Name changed for this.

Parent has full capacity. Physically disabled but is relatively independent but needs support and has a carer. Various health conditions but nothing serious or life threatening. In their 80s.

4 adult children:

1 works full time, married, has own health difficulties, adult children. Lives 6 miles away. Sees parent twice a month or so. Rings once a week sometimes less. No medical knowledge or awareness of parental finances.

2 works full time, married, spouse has several physical health problems and is awaiting surgery. Phones a few times a week. Regularly visits to do DIY type jobs, takes parent out for lunch/dinner about every 4-6 weeks. Lives 100 miles away. No knowledge of medical or financial situation.

1. Works full time, young adult child. Married. Phones weekly or so. Visits a few times a year. Last visited in the spring. Lives 200 miles away. No knowledge of medical or financial situation.

4 Full time carer for parent. Primary and teenage children, visits daily for general household tasks like cooking, cleaning, laundry, and phones twice a day or more for emotional and sometimes financial or practical support. Handles day to day finances. Attends medical appointments with parent, liaises with healthcare professionals and has healthcare background. Lives within walking distance. First port of call for support.

Who is best placed to have POA?

POA doesn't stop the donor (your parent) from continuing to act themselves whilst they have capacity. The two different POAs govern different aspects and act differently.

Financial one - It just means that the appointee can act on their behalf financially - if they choose to hand this over whilst they still have capacity. (this is a choice when POA is set up).

Health one is different as medical POA does not apply unless donor is deemed not to have capacity anyway. It is just in place ready if needed. This will give sibling choice over care if needed and similar to next of kin in emergency sense.

Assuming you are sibling 4, nothing needs to change. Your parent can still have you as appointee to deal with GP etc.

However I can see why you would be miffed about having all this handed to someone else when you deal with it all day to day. Ultimately it is your parents decision. And YOUR decision as to whether you continue to do all you do as you clearly see this as a lack of trust and are reasonable to be hurt by it all.

Who is pushing for POA - your parent or sibling 2? If it's sibling 2 then what is their motive? My gut feeling would be joint between 1 and 4 being local, or because of issues between them perhaps 2 and 4?

1 and 3 do not trust 4 and are not happy with what is happening. 2 is likely stuck in the middle.

The sensible choice would be 4.

If I was 4 and not selected, I would be making it plain I was not available for daily caring etc etc. If I was not considered trustworthy enough for POA, then surely they would want POA grantee to step up and doing all the other stuff.

It is the parents choice.
But I agree with @LittleOwl153 no 2 is likely being places piggy in the middle of a family argument.

However much the question is why has the parent excluded 4 who currently manages all the day to day items, is makes no difference to the outcome.

In real terms if and until the parent looses capacity things can continue on as they are.

Once that happens 4 is depending on 2's agreement with any decisions and any financial spending etc would have to be preapproved by 2. It could be that 2 would simply support 4 or it could end in conflict.

All the family, not just the parent, are currently benefiting from the work 4 is putting in.

OP I would strongly recomend that 4 (you) focus on getting carers in to do some of the care 4 currently provides. If 4 does not do this, 4 will end up with the care responsibility but none of the control to make changes. There is nothing stopping the other family members from calling once a day to provide emotional support or to arrange appointments etc.
With electronic calander 2 or 1or 3 can take over the life admin.

If 4 dropped dead tomorrow the other 3 children would have to organise a plan. No matter if it is duty or love 4 needs to be mentally prepared to hand off parents care if the parent becomes incapacitated.

I agree it is the parent's choice. It just doesn't seem a logical one.

Has mum told you why she wants to appoint 2 instead of you. Does she think itsmtoo much for you, wants to give you a break from doing everything. Will there be a replacement attorney if 2 cant act any more, is there a reason you know of why they are doing this with a solicitor as its easy and much cheaper. to do online

The sensible choice would be
LPA fiancé and property child 2 and 4 jointly and severally
You don't have to like each other- it just means you can both keep an eye on finances using online banking

Do not do joint (together) must be "and severally"

That way you can get money out when mum needs it as well as child 2 for her

LPA health and welfare should be child 4 at minimum and maybe also child 2 jointly and severally

I would say Mum if you want to appoint Child2 as your POA and not me who looks after you, that's fab, you don't need me.

So ill stop after you go to solicitors, it'd be lovely to have my life back.

If you want child2 & me to be your POA great we can do joint and severally so can keep eye on each other and take it in turns so it's not one person

I always advise two or more POAs as one might suddenly die before the donor and then it's very difficult.

Have had an update from 4. 2 is POA but will involve all in decisions but take overall responsibility for finances once parent has died or is incapacitated. Health will be all siblings together. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me on the health front because they are so far apart geographically and don't get on generally apart from 1 and 3.

Poa ceases upon death, to take over any responsibikities once your parent has died they will need to be Executirs in the Will

Harsh as it may sound if & when all the children are making choices re health care, 4 needs to step out in the short term. The best thing 4 can do is to encourage the parent to write down a list of what ifs around end of life care.

HCP will not allow themselves to be involved in taking sides with in-family fighting or discussing treatments with different groups. It will be counterproductive in the long term. 4 will be out voted by 1 & 3 and it will end up as no agreement if 2 & 4 vote against 1&3.
The running around will remain 4's "job" but 4 would have to have open communication with everyone to enable them to make informed choices.

I don't think they realise the bit about being executors. I think child 1 and 2 are executors already.

It would be a good idea if you could,sit down with mum, 1 and 2 and ask exactly whats going on, is there a will, does it state 1 and 2 are executors. If they are then they need to familiarise themselves with the house situation, health and finances. 2 could put together a file with all the financial info, Deeds, health, etc and mum can write down her future wishes on the poa form. It sounds like they are happy for you to do everything at the moment then 2 steps in if mum loses capacity.

It’s fairly easy to separate finance from the regular carer. They are not really the same. However OP will need to be in regular contact with 2 over money. The attorney will have a bank card. They will just have to sort it out between them. But definitely tell to all siblings snd parents as they may not fully understand. Also have parents seen a solicitor? They go through all of this and should make them consider pros and cons of who to nominate. If they still went 2, OP snd 2 will have to talk!

This sounds like a recipe for disaster and conflict unfortunately.

The suggestion that all four make decisions jointly and severally is also likely be a scenario where there are no decisions.

However, there is c,early a rationale for their thinking not clear here....is 2 happy about it as living away could make it tricky?

Lao, there are sewerage LPA's for health and finance. If the health ine comes into play then they will really need to be present to discuss parents conditions with medics etc

I think parents think 4 is doing everything anyway and is spreading the load a bit. I can see that. Making decisions about, say, moving into a home, is really a family decision anyway.

Not when the parent is aware that there is alread existing conflict, the plan should be for worst case planning.

When it comes to self funding and signing a contract. A child (anybody) needs to be aware that there can (will) be a clause which makes the person who signed the contract financially responsible for all the costs involved. If 4 not 2, signs it a personal capacity with no POA and 1&2&3 don't the court can only enforce the contract against 4. The executors could also disclaim the contract as not being the responsibilty of the parent's estate. Which could happen if there is a dispute over which care home is used.

In this situation where 1&2&3 are not involved in day to day care they may see no immediacy in organising a care home as any deteriorating health would not have a significantly higher impact on their lives. So 4 would have to allow a crisis to force Social Service involvement etc.

it's going to be tricky for all of them.

If I was 4 I would walk away from them all, it sound like a recipe for disaster all around.

All 4 are executors I've just learnt.

So you will have to work together then. That’s also cumbersome and probably not a great idea.

I don’t see why 2 cannot be financially responsible snd sign agreements.If three siblings agree, there’s not much the other one can do unless they solely have health POA. This only comes in when certain circumstances are met and is not the same as finance.

However I would reduce my commitment and start talking to other family members.

That’s absolutely spiteful!

When the parent visits with her solicitor, the solicitor will make it very clear what a POA is and how its used. They should also speak to the appointee alone in the absence of the proposed POA to ensure they are m not being coerced into the decision. As others have said already, it does not come into play until such time that the person loses capacity, unless they choose to involve the POA before that time. The POA in that instance cannot override the wishes of the appointee.
When you complete the health and welfare POA, you can add a great deal of detail about what the appointee will wish to happen in different circumstances - eg they may want to go into a specific care home, may not want to be resuscitated, may not want to go into a home at all. Then wherever possible the POA would follow the appointees wishes.
Id suggest to the parent that the person doing the most day to day care has the possibility to be a joint signatory on their bank account so they can deal with the day to day payments.
At the end of the day, its up to the appointee to choose whom they like.

They aren't visiting a solicitor now and are doing it online. I can see this being being the last straw with the kids' relationship with each other. It's fragile as it is.

@POAPITA
Complete idiots then. However the fees are quite high for registration so I would want it accurate. If people don’t get on, too bad. As long as the will is fair.

The Will is split equally between all 4.